Lieberman keeps Homeland Security chairmanship

Did you know they changed the rules so that you couldn't have as many chairs as Lieberman had? He was going to lose one of those seats anyway. He wasn't "punished" at all.
Didn't know that. Thanks.


So according to you, Obama is saying, it's not politics as usual but I'm playing hardball. Come join us in brotherly love or watch this home run.
Not sure what this means.

To clarify, what Obama seems to be saying is that he is willing to start with a clean slate. Old sins are forgiven. You will not be shut out based on past transgressions. Accept me as your savior and live with me in heaven. Reject me and you will be condemned to hell for the next 8 years. It's the messiah thing.
 
By custom or by law?

The only way to kick joe out now is by a full vote of the Senate that can be filibustered. So in reality there is no way at all to remove him from his seat if he decided to use his committee to go after Obama. Obama just made him the most important person on the Hill. At this point the only chance joe has to be reelected is to win the support of CT republicans and since joe is about 2 things, winning elections and getting on tv, I will bet money there is an investigation on the Iraq pullout or the handling of a disaster in the next two years.
 
I cannot believe you are seriously comparing this situation to date rape - what a sad case you are :rolleyes:


I guess payback is more important to a lot of people then getting things done.
It looks as if Obama is serious about bi partisanship, and that will drive the Kos Kids crazy.
Hey guys guess what: Obama was not elected to transform the US into the People's Republic of America.
Frankly, that he has both the Militant Left and the Militant Right angry at him now is one of the things I am really liking about him.
 
I cannot believe you are seriously comparing this situation to date rape - what a sad case you are :rolleyes:

Google "bipartisanship date rape" and get back to me when you understand the depths of my sarcasm.

ETA: That goes for you, too, dudalb. And, FSM, save me from people talking ABOUT me in a thread I'm participating in. That level of insufferable smugness is much more indicative of your character than anything about mine you could look down your nose at.
 
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Wow.Just wow.
Considering how boloboffin has treated other people in threads he has been in.......
I think Harry Truman's little saying about heat and kitchens applies here.
 
I guess payback is more important to a lot of people then getting things done.

It's more about whether the right things are going to get done. IMO giving Lieberman great power, even if the benefit of a filibuster-proof caucus is acheived, is going to make it less likely that the right things are done. I don't think it's necessary to placate him at all, or play some ridiculous favor-currying game.

It looks as if Obama is serious about bi partisanship, and that will drive the Kos Kids crazy.
Hey guys guess what: Obama was not elected to transform the US into the People's Republic of America.
Frankly, that he has both the Militant Left and the Militant Right angry at him now is one of the things I am really liking about him.

I'm a lot more critical of Congress than Obama. The latter hasn't even been in a governing position yet, but the former has already demonstrated incompetence over the past eight years. In particular the then-opposition Democrats to Bush were weak-willed in countering policy.

Maybe the author of this piece is a militant leftist. Don't know him, I'm not, but he succinctly raises the issues that some of us are trying to get at:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/11/18/bipartisanship/index.html

Glenn Greenwald said:
Where is the evidence of the supposed partisan wrangling that we hear so much about? Just examine the question dispassionately. Look at every major Bush initiative, every controversial signature Bush policy over the last eight years, and one finds virtually nothing but massive bipartisan support for them -- the Patriot Act (original enactment and its renewal); the invasion of Afghanistan; the attack on, and ongoing occupation of, Iraq; the Military Commissions Act (authorizing enhanced interrogation techniques, abolishing habeas corpus, and immunizing war criminals); expansions of warrantless eavesdropping and telecom immunity; declaring part of Iran's government to be "terrorists"; our one-sided policy toward Israel; the $700 billion bailout; The No Child Left Behind Act, "bankruptcy reform," and on and on.

Most of those were all enacted with virtually unanimous GOP support and substantial, sometimes overwhelming, Democratic support: the very definition of "bipartisanship." That's just a fact.

[...]

As The Washington Post's Dan Froomkin observed at the end of last year: "Historians looking back on the Bush presidency may well wonder if Congress actually existed." How much more harmonious -- "bipartisan" -- can the two parties get?

Even though the Dems now have a majority in both House and Senate and a President, I wonder if they're too scared and spineless to actual act as a majority party. Bipartisanship is fine, but winning and holding power should result in some serious changes. The GOP lost no time from Bush's election in '00 in wrangling Congress to support their agenda (wasn't it only one veto in his first 6 years?) The Democratic party was unwilling to take serious policy stands, even after gaining control.

I'm pretty sure the GOP minorities will take stands. Good for them. My issue is that the Dem leadership, and most of the legislators, are incapable of wielding their majority power effectively. That they will capitulate enough that it's even in doubt whether Congress is effectively Dem or GOP-controlled.

A prediction based on that, would be that by the end of '12:

Gitmo is still holding some of the same prisoners it has in the last 7 years
DOMA still exists
FISA is not changed or done away with
Bush's tax cuts remain
"Nominal" US bases are still in Iraq (with at least several thousand troops)
No health reform package has passed
No comprehensive energy policy has passed (both support this so that would be entirely on Congress massively sucking)
Etc.

Some stuff I expect to not happen as Obama has to deal with the financial meltdown, and may prefer to wait until his second term. And I'm certainly not expecting or desiring crazy militant leftist stuff. But I'm getting skeptical if anything substantive is actually going to change. Not really because of Obama, but because Congressional Democrats are weak-willed, wishy-washy, and more concerned with their reelections than making good decisions.
 
You think Lieberman votes according to what party he's pissed off at or happy with at the time, and not on the issues?

It wouldn't be the first time a politician used his power to even the score. And I believe that both the Georgia and Minnesota Senatorial races are still being decided. If they go the Dem's way, then they are fillibuster proof and I would imagine that Senator Lieberman will be in a very uncomfortable position and could lose his chairmanship.
 
Wow.Just wow.
Considering how boloboffin has treated other people in threads he has been in.......
I think Harry Truman's little saying about heat and kitchens applies here.

This incivility will cease toward me or you and I will be talking to the moderators about it.

And you BETTER bring examples of this latest :rule10 charge if/when it happens or stifle already.
 
This incivility will cease toward me or you and I will be talking to the moderators about it.

And you BETTER bring examples of this latest :rule10 charge if/when it happens or stifle already.

LOL. Offended at a charge of incivility, Boloboffin responds in a manner that any objective observer would have to call...uncivil. Do you usually use threats, SHOUTING, and profanity in your civil discourse? :rolleyes:

skepticguy said:
It wouldn't be the first time a politician used his power to even the score. And I believe that both the Georgia and Minnesota Senatorial races are still being decided. If they go the Dem's way, then they are fillibuster proof and I would imagine that Senator Lieberman will be in a very uncomfortable position and could lose his chairmanship.
I think this 60 seat filibuster proof majority is overblown. First of all, I think the Democratsonly reach 60 seats if they win the remaining 2 races and if Lieberman continues to caucus with them. Secondly, there are not many issues on which the Republicans and Democrats split exactly along party lines.
 
LOL. Offended at a charge of incivility, Boloboffin responds in a manner that any objective observer would have to call...uncivil. Do you usually use threats, SHOUTING, and profanity in your civil discourse? :rolleyes:

The incivility started with dudalb as I described, and it continues with you. You are on notice as well. Cease this ganging up on me or you will be talking to the moderators as well.
 
The incivility started with dudalb as I described, and it continues with you. You are on notice as well. Cease this ganging up on me or you will be talking to the moderators as well.

When a poster is being hypocritical, then civilly pointing it out is part of the give and take of the forum. Your replies to dudalb and to me were both quite uncivil. I respectfully suggest you clean up your own act before you criticize others. I did not shout, use threats, or use profanity. If you were offended by my use of the :rolleyes: smiley, mea culpa. I apologize. If you did not like my pointing out your hypocrisy, I suggest you refrain from acting in a hypocritical manner.

Now can we get back to the discussion of Lieberman and his committee chairmanship?
 
It wouldn't be the first time a politician used his power to even the score. And I believe that both the Georgia and Minnesota Senatorial races are still being decided. If they go the Dem's way, then they are fillibuster proof and I would imagine that Senator Lieberman will be in a very uncomfortable position and could lose his chairmanship.

Even if the Dems get 58 seats plus joe and Sanders that does not mean it is fillibuster proof. There is enough spineless dems that will cross over on each issue that it does not matter if they have 59 total or 60 or hell even 65. The democratic party knows no concept of party discipline so its not like LBJ is there to whip them inline. And what do they have to fear from Obama? They only way they will be heard is to call him a marxist and a possible terrorists, hell they get rewarded than.
 
To clarify, what Obama seems to be saying is that he is willing to start with a clean slate. Old sins are forgiven. You will not be shut out based on past transgressions. Accept me as your savior and live with me in heaven. Reject me and you will be condemned to hell for the next 8 years. It's the messiah thing.

You don't know how true that is starting to appear. There was an Obama insider yesterday that said that Obama wants republicans at all levels of government because he thinks his personality will be able to move them. I used to mock the notion of Obama the Messiah but it appears that he believes his own clippings.
 
A prediction based on that, would be that by the end of '12:

Gitmo is still holding some of the same prisoners it has in the last 7 years
DOMA still exists
FISA is not changed or done away with
Bush's tax cuts remain
"Nominal" US bases are still in Iraq (with at least several thousand troops)
No health reform package has passed
No comprehensive energy policy has passed (both support this so that would be entirely on Congress massively sucking)
Etc.

Some stuff I expect to not happen as Obama has to deal with the financial meltdown, and may prefer to wait until his second term. And I'm certainly not expecting or desiring crazy militant leftist stuff. But I'm getting skeptical if anything substantive is actually going to change. Not really because of Obama, but because Congressional Democrats are weak-willed, wishy-washy, and more concerned with their reelections than making good decisions.

Could not agree with you more. The only thing though that I think you got wrong is health care. I think there will be health care reform but it will not be what anyone wants or expects but instead another Medicare plan D debacle with the only people happy the boards of UHC, BCBS and the like.
 
What the hard core left doesn't seem to understand is Obama can afford to take them for granted. They're going to vote for him no matter what, or at least they won't be voting for any of his Republican opponents.

The key to his election was the moderates, and it's the moderates he has to be careful not to alienate.
 
When a poster is being hypocritical, then civilly pointing it out is part of the give and take of the forum. Your replies to dudalb and to me were both quite uncivil. I respectfully suggest you clean up your own act before you criticize others. I did not shout, use threats, or use profanity. If you were offended by my use of the :rolleyes: smiley, mea culpa. I apologize. If you did not like my pointing out your hypocrisy, I suggest you refrain from acting in a hypocritical manner.

Now can we get back to the discussion of Lieberman and his committee chairmanship?

But that is precisely my point. No one is discussing what I have to say. In fact, quite a bit of effort is being made to show that my point of view is not worth engaging. I am being talked about to my face, my motives for opposing Lieberman are being assigned to me rather than being taken from my words, and I am openly accused of mistreating others without a single scrap of evidence.

And when I call out dudalb for doing this and make it clear that I will not be snubbed or dismissed or insulted quietly, you step up to get your licks in.

Yes, I could be a little more civil about how I defend myself but I maintain that anyone can see who was being uncivil to whom for quite sometime before I started in myself.

By all means, discuss Lieberman. I'm trying to contribute to that discussion. I will not be bullied or mocked by any of you for trying to do so.
 
Who cares who is chairman of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security?

Here's the real price. :D

BTW, Obama won 61% of the vote in Connecticut, and Republican incumbant Chris Shays lost his seat. Now 63% of likely Connecticut voters (basically the same ones that voted for Obama) disapprove of Joe. 59% say they would vote for Lamont instead of Lieberman this time. He's lucky he wasn't up for reelection, and if he keeps siding with republicans on key issues, how can he mend fences with his constituants.
 
Though I intensely dislike a few of Lieberman's positions, and am personally disgusted that he might avoid consequence for his despicable behavior during the election, I think this is the best course of action. It is ultimately more important to be able to pass GOOD legislation over the usual republican obstructionism. And of course if Lieberman fails to heel when necessary in the future, it is always possible to strip him of his committee appointments later on.

The ONE thing I think should have been handled differently in this case is the rhetoric. Reid should have utterly eviscerated Lieberman in his words to the party and the press, but then noted something like "However, due his long history of co-operation with our party...we have decided to be forbearing. This ONCE." And still have left him with appropriate committee positions intact. Allowing the matter proceed passively sets a dangerous precedent in a party that has already seen its share of political betrayals (classic example: Zell Miller).
 
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Even if the Dems get 58 seats plus joe and Sanders that does not mean it is fillibuster proof. There is enough spineless dems that will cross over on each issue that it does not matter if they have 59 total or 60 or hell even 65. The democratic party knows no concept of party discipline so its not like LBJ is there to whip them inline. And what do they have to fear from Obama? They only way they will be heard is to call him a marxist and a possible terrorists, hell they get rewarded than.

I think this viewpoint is part of what's wrong with American politics today. Exactly how much "spine" does it take to blindly follow your party? IMO, we need more "mavericks" on both sides that are willing to put what's right (for the country and their constituents) ahead of blind partisanship.
 

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