Psychic Samurai applies for MDC...apparently...

[RoboTimbo]

Not only will TP be back, he will also bring up new angles to this ordeal. Whether that develops into a protocol or even a test remains to be seen.

The key to effective promotion is: "Make them want more." From the looks of it, TP has you by the dangles, A5.

Disregarding his special touch, I understand why he describes people as "snarky".

I have high confidence that he will be back. I have no confidence that anything will result from it, other than 1400 more posts of nonsense.

If his claim were something like "I can cause voices to appear paranormally on previously blank magnetic recording media.", that would be simple. Here's a blank tape in it's new wrapper, I'll just set it down 5 feet in front of you and give you 30 minutes to do your voodoo.

Unfortunately, the tape in TP's scenario has to be in a recorder set to "Record" with a mic plugged in and some other electronic gizmos laying around it that generate sound. One of the gizmos scans radio frequencies.

Like I said, it doesn't seem all that paranormal to me. It would be paranormal if some words weren't recorded.

I don't think that it will be a question of are there words on the tape. It will be a question of, are the words coherent responses to The Professor's questions. So, he might ask, "What is your name?" and on the tape will be heard, "...listening to the light FM." because of the device that scans radio frequencies. The Professor will claim that as a hit, it's name is Light FM.

I am still posting on this only because the tone is a lot more civil now.

 

[The Professor]

Again, I do not see any reason for this alacrity in demanding a protocol now.

The man has slightly less than a year to dicker about with equipment, spirits, paranormalists, psychiatrists, whatever he may please - let him take his year if he so pleases.

It's no real skin off our nose.

~ Matt

Yes. I am using my time for this Protocol wisely!

I must dot the "I"'s and cross the "T"s.

The information gathered as a result of the Halloween Experience is very helpful.

We are now working within Faraday Cages to remove any possibility of trickery on the part of the JREF or myself. I'm not sure this is the answer, but I wanted to let you know that the experiments are progressing even more effectively then before and the amount of supportive results are positively amazing.

The analysis of the October 31st's EVP's and ITC's is mind boggling.

I'm glad so many are still interested in my Claim and Protocol and I will continue to keep you informed.

I'm sure Jeff will like the new ideas that I hope will overcome the problems with the definition of Paranormal and Self Evident.

I'd like to thank all of you who've helped me here and on other forums.

And YES, I have spoken with James Randi on the phone since Oct. 31st

Thanks again
Dave

 

[Azrael 5]

Yes. I am using my time for this Protocol wisely!

I must dot the "I"'s and cross the "T"s.

The information gathered as a result of the Halloween Experience is very helpful.

We are now working within Faraday Cages to remove any possibility of trickery on the part of the JREF or myself. I'm not sure this is the answer, but I wanted to let you know that the experiments are progressing even more effectively then before and the amount of supportive results are positively amazing.

The analysis of the October 31st's EVP's and ITC's is mind boggling.

I'm glad so many are still interested in my Claim and Protocol and I will continue to keep you informed.

I'm sure Jeff will like the new ideas that I hope will overcome the problems with the definition of Paranormal and Self Evident.

I'd like to thank all of you who've helped me here and on other forums.

And YES, I have spoken with James Randi on the phone since Oct. 31st

Thanks again
Dave

Sorry to be a pedant,but no experiment took place on Halloween at your preferred location at least.If you have results,kindly list them on here,along with you recording of the dead NASA dude EVP you claim to have.I think this would help enormously.

 

[steenkh]

We are now working within Faraday Cages to remove any possibility of trickery on the part of the JREF or myself.

Faraday cages may not be all you will need. I know of a sound system that uses infra light to transmit the sound to the loudspeakers. In short, you will also need containers that are opaque to light of all frequencies. Perhaps you should propose the protocol to the JREF instead of "work" with it. It might save you some trouble.

I'm sure Jeff will like the new ideas that I hope will overcome the problems with the definition of Paranormal and Self Evident.

Hopefully you will no longer put your idea of a qualified judge forward ...

 

[Czarcasm]

Where did this "Halloween Experience" take place, and who was there to witness it?

 

[Azrael 5]

CAN WE HEAR THE EVP WITH DEAD NASA PERSON PLEASE?

Apologies for shouting fellow members,wanted to make sure TP could see it.

 

[Seanrmr]

Azrael 5 you have to be more Specific can we here the EVP from Mike Davis previous Shuttle launch director for NASA. Also my google foo is not that great I can only find alive Mike Davis's that have worked for NASA. Also what range of frequencies have you designed your faraday cage for? Will the ghost box even be needed then as it will just be another white noise generator without any radio frequencies coming in.

 

[The Professor]

CAN WE HEAR THE EVP WITH DEAD NASA PERSON PLEASE?

Apologies for shouting fellow members,wanted to make sure TP could see it.

You know it is against the rules here to answer your demands since it is OFF TOPIC, but I will give an update to my protocol, as advised.

I am utilizing all of the new EVP's and ITC's that are being posted throughout the world on the internet. My experiments with faraday cages are producing the same results as everyone else.

Since all communication involves Frequencies and Waves it is impossible to communicate without them. This applies for all Scientific Communication. No Science has ever shown that communication can exist on any other level. I agree at this time.

So my protocol must not limit any frequencies or wavelengths. In fact, to improve the effectiveness of the communication, I am looking for a fair way to actually Amplify these waves to allow for the communication.

This must be Self Evident, and that seems to be the area that I am working on the hardest.

Thanks for everyones help!
Dave

 

[MattC]

Yes. I am using my time for this Protocol wisely!

I must dot the "I"'s and cross the "T"s.

The information gathered as a result of the Halloween Experience is very helpful.

We are now working within Faraday Cages to remove any possibility of trickery on the part of the JREF or myself. I'm not sure this is the answer, but I wanted to let you know that the experiments are progressing even more effectively then before and the amount of supportive results are positively amazing.

The analysis of the October 31st's EVP's and ITC's is mind boggling.

I'm glad so many are still interested in my Claim and Protocol and I will continue to keep you informed.

I'm sure Jeff will like the new ideas that I hope will overcome the problems with the definition of Paranormal and Self Evident.

I'd like to thank all of you who've helped me here and on other forums.

And YES, I have spoken with James Randi on the phone since Oct. 31st

Thanks again
Dave

I confess at this point I'm not sure you're at the stage where you need be concerned with "dotting the 'i's and crossing the 't's" as you elect to phrase it. It seems that instead of placing dots and lines, you should be striving to obtain information to figure out precisely which letters you are indeed required to write - certainly the idea of crossing a 'c' or dotting a 'g' produces no verifiable letter.

It seems to me that we're getting too caught up in all of this comparatively meaningless chatter about Faraday cages and noise generators when they aren't really addressing the more immediate theoretical problem of interpretation. Surely once we have the theory of what is to happen nailed down, designing a protocol which eliminates many of the natural causes for this phenomenon under test becomes much simpler.

For clarity's sake, permit me repost what seems to have been Mr. Koenig's initial idea of the claim he desired to test:

I. I, David Koenig, will contact a Paranormal Entity and communicate with it in an intelligent and understandable manner. Reasonable questions will be asked and answered. This communication will be recorded with Instrumental TransCommunication and Electronic Voice Phenomenon (ITC and EVP) methods. Conventional video recording will also be used to verify contact in addition to Still Photography. Other scientific devices will also be used to determine and verify any unusual presences at the location.

Perusing over the past thirty-odd pages of chatter about this topic, it seems like everyone is getting so caught up in the "... questions will be asked and answered" part that they're ignoring the concept that, for this to even occur, a noticeable voice has to be present in the first place. If it can "speak" (I use quotations so as to indicate my confusion on how to accurately refer to a paranormal entity's communication methods) it doesn't really matter what it says. Even a ghostly wailing where one could reasonably not be expected (methods for removing natural explanations for causing voices should be specified in the protocol) is some evidence that something paranormal is going on.

Thinking of the claim in this manner restricts the paranormal part to Mr. Koenig's capacity to manifest a voice where one could not be reasonably expected to exist. Loss Leader months ago provided a protocol designed to test this issue - can Mr. Koenig cause a voice to appear where one could not be reasonably expected to do so? This is a much simpler claim than testing a paranormal entity's veracity.

I apologize if I keep harping on this protocol Loss Leader came up with so long ago, but this seems to be the simplest way to get a test on the ground and in motion. Mr. Koenig, what do you think of this idea? Slightly editing your claim in this matter seems to be a much more expedient method of arriving at a protocol which will produce a self-evident result.

~ Matt

 

[Azrael 5]

You know it is against the rules here to answer your demands since it is OFF TOPIC, but I will give an update to my protocol, as advised.

Okay post the info here http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125004&page=2

I am utilizing all of the new EVP's and ITC's that are being posted throughout the world on the internet. My experiments with faraday cages are producing the same results as everyone else.

Dave

And these are scientifically proven are they? You may as well post that answer in above thread also.
I look forward to your replies.

 

[Roadtoad]

Sorry, but at no point have I read how the technology is sufficient to the protocols. In other words, how will it be determined that the various and sundry pieces of equipment haven't been tampered with? Until that's been answered, I don't see how the requirements for the challenge have been met.

 

[eirik]

Hi David. You have been asking about who alerted the cemetary about your experiment.

Here's the mail I sent on Sptember 26. to the Lake Helen Police Department, as I told you I would. When this problem was raised on the forum, you (in a more bullying tone)told the forumites that this was no legal problem, and that this was perfectly OK with the cemetary. Well, you were wrong, and you are now proven wrong in this particular question.

The mail:

“To the Police Chief of Lake Helen, Florida.

It has come to my attention that a Mr Dave Koenig is planning a spirit seance/ a magic show in the cemetary of Lake Helen/Cassadega, the exact location being on a stone chair between two headstones, on "the devils chair" on the 31. oct 2008(halloween next month), and again in 2009.

As this could be offensive to the relatives and families of the deceased, I'm writing you, or to whom it may concern, to inquire how the City in general would stand on such an application, if you were to receive one.

Respectfully (..)”

You don't have to be a lawyer (but it so happens that I am) to know that a séance in a cemetary is a grave insult to the families of the deceased, and that the owners(the city) would never allow it. My guess was that David probably knew this as well, and that he therefore would choose to be insincere in his contact wit LHPD. Hence the tip.

You, David, planned to do something illegal, and I notified the persons in question. It's a moral obligation if you can appreciate such a notion, and I will expect anyone to do the same. If your challenge requires you to break the law, I guess you should back out now, or remove the parts relevant to this problem. I'm sure there is a challenge rule stating that this is not acceptable, and the JREF would in any case, I'm sure, never accept such a protocol.

Qoute from the Magic Cafe Forum, David Koenig:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=282932&forum=251&start=150


“As for the location, you are aware that certain JREFer's have contacted the Lake Helen Police Department in an effort to disrupt the testing protocol.

I had arranged for the use of the cemetery with the proper authorities prior to my applications approval.

However, this did not stop that sabotage attempt and I am looking into seeing what can be done about the skeptics who only want to interfere.

The Cemetery closes at 7 PM and the authorities had agreed to a human interest story being filmed there at that time. Instructions for the medias behavior had already been drawn up and agreed to. Everyone involved had agreed to be respectful in that location.

DVD's have been filmed there before.”


This was not a smart move. “human interest story”? Come on. So you lied to the police, and they didn't appreciate it. Why didn't you tell the truth, about invocations and talking to the dead and of IVP, ETC and other scientifically proven equipment? Beacause you knew they would never permit this insane behaviour in a cemetary.

Let me just say this about the sabotage-attempt- do you even realize what the word means? How can a mail wich only describes truthful facts be sabotage?(unless I'm Batman and you are a super villain..)

And “DVD's”? Ohh, well, it seems you have it all covered then.

You should concentrate more on your protocol. If you had listened to the advice given you about this particular problem, it would have saved you the embarassment of being busted on halloween, AND you could have adressed more meaningful problems with your protocol. Now that you have lied to the LHPD, it's not likely they will ever let you get the permit you need.

If I have been unclear, I will of course be sending a new mail next halloween.

Best Eirik

 

[Azrael 5]

Hi David. You have been asking about who alerted the cemetary about your experiment.

Here's the mail I sent on Sptember 26. to the Lake Helen Police Department, as I told you I would. When this problem was raised on the forum, you (in a more bullying tone)told the forumites that this was no legal problem, and that this was perfectly OK with the cemetary. Well, you were wrong, and you are now proven wrong in this particular question.

The mail:

“To the Police Chief of Lake Helen, Florida.

It has come to my attention that a Mr Dave Koenig is planning a spirit seance/ a magic show in the cemetary of Lake Helen/Cassadega, the exact location being on a stone chair between two headstones, on "the devils chair" on the 31. oct 2008(halloween next month), and again in 2009.

As this could be offensive to the relatives and families of the deceased, I'm writing you, or to whom it may concern, to inquire how the City in general would stand on such an application, if you were to receive one.

Respectfully (..)”

You don't have to be a lawyer (but it so happens that I am) to know that a séance in a cemetary is a grave insult to the families of the deceased, and that the owners(the city) would never allow it. My guess was that David probably knew this as well, and that he therefore would choose to be insincere in his contact wit LHPD. Hence the tip.

You, David, planned to do something illegal, and I notified the persons in question. It's a moral obligation if you can appreciate such a notion, and I will expect anyone to do the same. If your challenge requires you to break the law, I guess you should back out now, or remove the parts relevant to this problem. I'm sure there is a challenge rule stating that this is not acceptable, and the JREF would in any case, I'm sure, never accept such a protocol.

Qoute from the Magic Cafe Forum, David Koenig:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=282932&forum=251&start=150


“As for the location, you are aware that certain JREFer's have contacted the Lake Helen Police Department in an effort to disrupt the testing protocol.

I had arranged for the use of the cemetery with the proper authorities prior to my applications approval.

However, this did not stop that sabotage attempt and I am looking into seeing what can be done about the skeptics who only want to interfere.

The Cemetery closes at 7 PM and the authorities had agreed to a human interest story being filmed there at that time. Instructions for the medias behavior had already been drawn up and agreed to. Everyone involved had agreed to be respectful in that location.

DVD's have been filmed there before.”


This was not a smart move. “human interest story”? Come on. So you lied to the police, and they didn't appreciate it. Why didn't you tell the truth, about invocations and talking to the dead and of IVP, ETC and other scientifically proven equipment? Beacause you knew they would never permit this insane behaviour in a cemetary.

Let me just say this about the sabotage-attempt- do you even realize what the word means? How can a mail wich only describes truthful facts be sabotage?(unless I'm Batman and you are a super villain..)

And “DVD's”? Ohh, well, it seems you have it all covered then.

You should concentrate more on your protocol. If you had listened to the advice given you about this particular problem, it would have saved you the embarassment of being busted on halloween, AND you could have adressed more meaningful problems with your protocol. Now that you have lied to the LHPD, it's not likely they will ever let you get the permit you need.

If I have been unclear, I will of course be sending a new mail next halloween.

Best Eirik

Cool. Well Prof looks like your number is up.Maybe you can arrange an innvocation at the Lake Helen Police Sattion instead.

WHy did anyone expect the truth from you?

 

[steenkh]

Am I the only one to find it unfortunate that JREF forumites do their best to prevent a planned test, rather than letting it flop of its own account?

Well, the event of Halloween this year was of course not a test, but merely a show, but next year ...

 

[Azrael 5]

Am I the only one to find it unfortunate that JREF forumites do their best to prevent a planned test, rather than letting it flop of its own account?

Well, the event of Halloween this year was of course not a test, but merely a show, but next year ...

Yes I do agree.What business is it of forum members? Although well meaning I do think it wrong.

 

[NobbyNobbs]

Am I the only one to find it unfortunate that JREF forumites do their best to prevent a planned test, rather than letting it flop of its own account?

Well, the event of Halloween this year was of course not a test, but merely a show, but next year ...

Here's how it could have gone. TP shows up, starts his seance, a neighbor complains, the cops come and say, "What are you doing?"

I would not put it past TP to respond, "I'm doing a preliminary experiment for the JREF challenge." And then Randi gets a call, and his lawyers get a call, and the newspapers get a story critical of the JREF.

No, I think calling the cops to double check was a good idea.

 

[MattC]

Yes I do agree.What business is it of forum members? Although well meaning I do think it wrong.

Rule of law must trump "the show must go on".

Were this an actual test I am fairly certain someone would have gotten permission to actually hold the test at that hour, in that location. It not having been so, I do not see how it negatively impacts the JREF at all.

~ Matt

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Here's how it could have gone. TP shows up, starts his seance, a neighbor complains, the cops come and say, "What are you doing?"

I would not put it past TP to respond, "I'm doing a preliminary experiment for the JREF challenge." And then Randi gets a call, and his lawyers get a call, and the newspapers get a story critical of the JREF.

No, I think calling the cops to double check was a good idea.

As boring and grown-up it may seem, involving the authorities is the thing to do. For reasonable adults, there is no alternative.

However, since we do not have an official statement that TP's plans are rejected by local authorities, one might receive a temporary permission to use the cemetery. Perhaps with a few conditions and obligations plus a small donation. Put everything in writing to make it easily documentable and avoid misunderstandings.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Am I the only one to find it unfortunate that JREF forumites do their best to prevent a planned test, rather than letting it flop of its own account?

Well, the event of Halloween this year was of course not a test, but merely a show, but next year ...

Perhaps you and A5 are.

Even given TP's unique persona, I do consider it warranted to assist both sides as effective as possible to ensure a proper controlled test takes place.

That would be "Change We Can Believe In". And not just on paper.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Am I the only one to find it unfortunate that JREF forumites do their best to prevent a planned test, rather than letting it flop of its own account?

Well, the event of Halloween this year was of course not a test, but merely a show, but next year ...

No, you aren't the only one. I'm very disappointed. I thought we were all working towards The Professor putting on his show and I, for one, wanted to see what he had in mind. It would have helped a great deal towards coming up with a protocol. Lost opportunity for us there.