Obama lies about negotiating with Hamas

BeAChooser

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http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3620833,00.html

Ahmad Yousuf, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh's political advisor, said that during the recent US presidential race a secret meeting between senior Islamist group figures and advisors to President-elect Barack Obama was held in Gaza.

"We were in contact with a number of Obama's aides through the Internet, and later met with some of them in Gaza, but they advised us not to come out with any statements, as they may have a negative effect on his election campaign and be used by Republican candidate John McCain (to attack Obama)," Yousuf said in an interview with London-based Arabic-language newspaper Al-Hayat, published Tuesday

Yousuf said Hamas's contact with Obama's advisors was ongoing, adding that he was still on good terms with some of the aides he had befriended while residing in the US.
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If this is true, wouldn't it constitute a violation of the Logan Act by members of the Obama campaign (presumably at the direction of Obama)? It forbids unauthorized citizens from negotiating with foreign governments. Or does Obama think his escape clause is the fact that back in April (http://www.reuters.com/article/poli...Type=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&rpc=22&sp=true ) he said "Hamas is not a state. Hamas is a terrorist organization."?

And if true, it proves that Obama LIED back in April when he stated "We must not negotiate with a terrorist group intent on Israel's destruction. We should only sit down with Hamas if they renounce terrorism, recognize Israels right to exist and abide by past agreements."
 
Yeah maybe he lied, but I am glad to see him talking to America's (or should I say Israel's) enemies.

The idea of not even talking to one's foes is something straight out of grade 4.
 
golly gee...they met obama aides on the internet? Maybe in a singles chatroom?


They hold seeeeeeecret meetings in gaza......where the aides asked them not to blab about the meetings..and you swalllow this hook line and sinker..... Can I sell you a car?


Then you slip in a quiet "if this is true" disclaimer then proceed to dump your own disclaimer make the desired assumption leap and decide it is true in order to justify your title....

its unusual the way your mind works.
 
While negotiating with people requires being in contact with them, being in contact with people does not necessarily involve negotiating with them.

During the 1980 election campaign some of Ronald Reagan's associates were in contact with the Iranians. Is this sufficient to prove that Reagan's people negotiated with the Iranians?

Talking with someone, being in contact with them, is not generally considered the same as negotiating with them. Equating the two in the way BeAChooser has opens the door to all sorts of verbal abuses. We could, for instance, prove that Sean Hannity has negotiated with neo-Nazis and anti-semites, that John McCain has negotiated with domestic terrorists, etc.

That's fun, I suppose, if one's purpose is to find rhetorical ways to smear people one disagrees with. It's not terribly useful if one's interest is in portraying accurately what is happening in the world.
 
Hate to burst your bubble, FOOL, but this is being reported by others:

Haaretz http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1036364.html

The Jerusalem Post http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1225910089559&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

the globe and mail http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...Story/International/home?cid=al_gam_mostemail

So really the question is whether Al-Hayat actually had the interview with who they said and he said what they reported or not. Maybe there's a tape. By the way, Al-Hayat tends to be left wing.

Hamas and Obama's *administration* are denying this ... but what would you expect them to do if they really did do this.
 
Nova Land said:
While negotiating with people requires being in contact with them, being in contact with people does not necessarily involve negotiating with them.
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One might be able to spin away the Logan argument, but the report is that Obama's people actually met face to face in Gaza. Sitting down with them is something Obama said he would not do prior to certain conditions being met. But then maybe he just meant himself ... personally. :D
 
Practically everybody who votes democrat and holds office is an Obama "advisor". If some guy who may or may not even be an official advisor to a candidate talks foreign policy unnofficially with Hamas in a process we adults with jobs call "networking" then no, it is not a violation of the Logan act.

Frank Raines was an Obama advisor. He told him his tie looked nice apparently over the phone once.

Call me back when you have a story with some meat on it.
 
I have an idea for your next thread, BAC. The topic is did John McCain violate the Logan Act when he openly sent Graham and Lieberman to Georgia to negotiate with the Russians. Not in secret. Not some unnamed "advisors". Two of his closest buddies. Your outrage is highly selective.

ETA: Isn't incredibly naive for an adult to believe the literal truth of every word spoken on the campaign trail?
 
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Cleon said:
You've got to be ****ing kidding me. Did you type that with a straight face?
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And in a related story ...

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/194894.php

November 11, 2008

Obama Adviser Who Met With Hamas Is Back

Six months ago Obama's foreign-policy adviser, Robert Malley, resigned from the campaign. The resignation was due to Times of London reporting that Malley had been meeting privately with Hamas leaders on a regular basis - something that Obama had publicly pledged not to do.

Now it appears Malley is back (BAC - http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=376A8A3B-62DD-407F-8D48-F38B2A63B96E )

History will record that Barack Obama’s first act of diplomacy as America’s president-elect took place two days after his election victory, when he dispatched his senior foreign-policy adviser, Robert Malley, to meet with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and Syrian President Bashar al-Assad—to outline for them the forthcoming administration’s Mideast policy vis-à-vis those nations.
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:D
 
BeAChooser said:
If this is true, wouldn't it constitute a violation of the Logan Act by members of the Obama campaign (presumably at the direction of Obama)? It forbids unauthorized citizens from negotiating with foreign governments.
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Only
Edited by tim: 
please don't insult other users.
such as yourself would put forward a line of argument where hamas are considered a goverment inline with the intention of the act.
 
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Hamas won an election and are effectively the government of the Gaza Strip. It would be odd if unauthorised negotiation with terrorists was legal but not unauthorised negotiation with governments.
 
gtc said:
Hamas won an election and are effectively the government of the Gaza Strip. It would be odd if unauthorised negotiation with terrorists was legal but not unauthorised negotiation with governments.
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The act was aimed at a specific event so can be taken as refering to recognised goverments. Specificaly 18th centery french ones. Enforcement (even against Logan himself) has been kinda patchy.
 
gtc said:
Hamas won an election and are effectively the government of the Gaza Strip. It would be odd if unauthorised negotiation with terrorists was legal but not unauthorised negotiation with governments.
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It is a risky policy though, as it may weaken Abbas' hold in the west bank.

I am too tired to make a long post explaining why. I may do so tomorrow.
 
Interesting that BAC believes everything that lying, murdering terrorists say.
 
I am an advisor to Obama. I told him his tie looked nice as we shook hands at a rally. I did not meet with Hamas.
 
geni said:
Only
Edited by tim:*
please don't insult other users.
such as yourself would put forward a line of argument where hamas are considered a goverment inline with the intention of the act.
Click to expand...

Edited by Cleon: 

If you wish to discuss any moderator action, do so in Forum Management.


Now, as far as Hamas being a government? You seem to have forgotten that in January of 2006, Hamas won in the Palestinian legislative elections.

You seem to forget that folks who support Obama, like the Electronic Intifada, call Hamas a government (http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article4757.shtml ).

You seem to forget that numerous other sources recognize Hamas is a government. For example:

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2008/me_hamas0631_10_22.asp " Military holds sway over Hamas government"

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/15/news/mideast.php "Haniya and his Hamas government resign"

http://www.imemc.org/article/57154 "Hamas government releases a number of Fatah prisoners in Gaza"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15710924/ "Hamas: New government won’t recognize Israel"

http://articles.latimes.com/2006/feb/22/world/fg-rice22 "Give Hamas Government Time, Egypt*Says"

Even the UN seems to recognize that Hamas is a government:

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,,,PSE,4562d8cf2,48f7608714,0.html "15 October 2008 ... Hamas government reinforces control over Gaza Strip media"

And don't liberals and Obama recognize the authority of the UN above all else?

:D
 
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