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Vision From Feeling

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Alright. I've had this ability, what ever it may be, for several years now and it is continuously growing stronger with experience little by little. I've always taken it for granted and for my personal use and experience with it I do not need any kind of confirmation of its authenticity.
The problem is that we have seen exactly this kind of claim before, with exactly the same reasons for not feeling the need to do testing and in every single instance the whole claim has disappeared without any further research (or perhaps further research that did not yield the desired results).
It is a source of wonder to us that people who had such an ability appear so casual about it, when it would potentially change many things we know about the world.
How could somebody really consider such an ability as no big deal or not possibly a mistake of perception or memory.

But in fact it always comes across as not really wanting to do testing in a cotrolled fashion that removes the chance of interpretation or delusion.

You appear to want to actually test your abilities so credit is due for that. We await the results with interest.

Expecting me to want to test it after each observation over the years is like expecting you to go have your eyes checked every time you see something.
Seeing things is not an ability which is currently believed to be impossible.
If it were people would ask for evidence in exactly the same way.

And it would be very easy to demonstrate. As it appears your abilities should be.
 
Pup:

I expect that there must have been unusually high levels of the bacteria in the stomach since he was taking a supplement. Unusually high levels of something fall into the category of unusual. I still find it remarkable that I was able to detect the fact that he had taken a bacterial supplement which fit the description of it that I gave.

There are actually plenty of cases where I do not detect things that are considered as being present, and this is the disclaimer for my ability that I have always outlined. I have never claimed to be able to detect all cases in which an ailment occurs, since I do not detect in all cases in which an ailment occurs. For instance I have on many occasions detected that a person is diabetic (some of these cases were checked for accuracy and found to be correct, none of these cases were checked for accuracy and found to be incorrect, and in some of these cases it was not possible to check for accuracy). Yet there have been many cases where I find out that a person is diabetic and I realize that I wouldn't have known, and even when I consciously apply my ability I do not detect it.

This is true for many and probably most of the ailments that I have experienced detecting. I do not detect them in each case in which they are considered to occur. I sense each case as occurring to a different extent, the feeling of the ailment is strong to different degrees in different people. And it is also true that ailments do come in many extents, we all know that pain for instance can exist in a wide range of extents from mild to severe. Cases that are most severe in terms of the feeling of them catch my attention on their own and I detect them. Cases that are milder I might detect only if I make the effort of finding them. And, cases that are the mildest I may not detect at all, even if they are considered to be there. And do remember that I've detected ailments that are not considered to be detectable by ordinary senses, which is why I look forward to testing the ability.

This limitation of my ability should not discredit the possibility of having an ability. There might still be an ability even if it might not be as strong as it could be or as it should be.

This limitation of my ability is something I have always highlighted in my correspondence with the IIG in designing the test protocol. "I do not detect each case in which an ailment occurs." They have not objected to this since it is part of my claim and there might still be an ability and it is still possible to design a test that accommodates this limitation without reducing the quality of the test.

I suggested in my protocol draft that I be given a larger number of persons to view than what the number of observations are that I need to make. I will then select the ten people with the ten observations that I am most confident in, and the remainder of the people are not part of the test at that point or part of the scoring. I refer to this as "gathering the test material". It accounts for the fact that I do not detect each case in which an ailment occurs. I will still be making ten very specific claims of observations that can be checked for accuracy.

I have however had to ask for an additional condition to the test. That is if I do not detect something in a total of ten persons, then I do not want that to constitute a failed test. Rather that should be the case of an inconclusive test since the material that was available for the test (ie. the persons with health conditions) was not adequate for my ability. That would not mean to say that there is no ability at all.

I will not be forced to guess on the test. I will only make claims of observations when I saw something. Those observations that I claim to make are then fully available for being checked for accuracy. I still think that a good test will be designed and I can't wait to have it.

My accuracy is good, even if my observations are not as frequent as some might demand them to be. And all ailments that are there for detection will be ones that have been determined as being undetectable by ordinary senses.

JWideman:
It would be an absolutely exhausting task for me to have to record every single case of any ailment or thing that happens to a person's body. Luckily as I've just stated I do not detect each case in which an ailment occurs, nor have I ever claimed to. I will not lose points for not detecting an ailment. I will only lose points for detecting something inaccurately. I will record my observations, but will not record when I did not observe something that you'd consider to be there.

Ashles:
Hi nice to have you here. I make observations far more frequently on health information than on the other aspects of the ability. The official test will involve health information since that is the main part of my ability. I am less interested in the other types of observations that I make since they are less frequent and less interesting.

For the sake of this forum more so than for my own purposes I'll arrange tests on chemical identification this weekend and also continuously from then on so that we can see if I can make the same observations under controlled settings. I want to design tests that as closely as possible resemble what the actual real-life observations were. I am considering having the cereal test, which should be very simple to set up. If I was able to detect the Lactobacillus cereal from rows of otherwise plain brands of cereal then surely by placing different samples of cereal with and without the bacterial supplement, in identical boxes of the same material, then according to the observation I should be able to detect it. Most likely this test will be done today with a friend.

The procedure should be simple. Have for instance four samples of cereal in identical sealed boxes, one of which contains the bacterial supplement. A friend will prepare and place the samples and for test purposes not be present as I make the identification so not to give away where it is in any way. I will not tamper with the samples, and I record my answer. If I sense where it is, I say so. I will however not start guessing and if I do not sense where it is, I record that as my answer. I will post the results here, no matter what the results will be.

I am definitely not going to disappear. I greatly look forward to having these tests. I was just saying that no matter what the results of the tests are, the ability that I have will stay the same and not go away, and for my own purposes of having the ability I do not need a test to confirm that I am making observations since I already know I am making observations. I am having the tests to find out what the source of the observations are.

I am just as casual about my ability as everyone is about having eyesight. Sorry about that.

I'm not sure I fit the description you make of these typical persons who claim to have an ability. I worked hard to suggest a test protocol to the IIG that would eliminate any sources of error and I've stated over and over again that I welcome finding out that it is not the case of ESP. I have no reason to favor having ESP over having just an unusual but wordly ability. No matter what the test results are or what label the ability gets, the ability stays the same and not much changes in my life. I have not put myself into a situation where I would depend on it being ESP. I have not claimed it as being ESP, I do not charge people money for observations, etc.

I can't tell you how I look forward to having the test with the IIG and being given the chance to detect health information in a controlled setting. I am very curious to finding out what I can do.

I apologize if I am not entitled to feel the way I feel about my ability. It is just a normal part of me. Thank you for writing.
 
I have however had to ask for an additional condition to the test. That is if I do not detect something in a total of ten persons, then I do not want that to constitute a failed test. Rather that should be the case of an inconclusive test since the material that was available for the test (ie. the persons with health conditions) was not adequate for my ability. That would not mean to say that there is no ability at all.
So to be clear, you are unwilling to admit failure with respect to testing? Then what exactly is the point?
 
So to be clear, you are unwilling to admit failure with respect to testing? Then what exactly is the point?
AIUI VFF is saying if nothing is sensed even when there is a health problem, that should not be considered a failure as VFF's ability does not always 'work'. However if something is sensed, and what is sensed turns out to be incorrect, that would be regarded as a failure.

So if there are ten volunteers with health problems and VFF is unable to sense anything about any of them, that test is inconclusive. But if VFF is able to sense something about, say, five of them, and is right about all 5, that's a success; if wrong about all 5, that's a failure.
 
So to be clear, you are unwilling to admit failure with respect to testing? Then what exactly is the point?

I didn't understand her that way. I understood she told she couldn't see every possible ailment, but when she could see one, it would be correct. So naturally the test can be made only when there are a sufficent amount of cases that she can evaluate and then be checked.

VFF, do you have any idea on how many people you'd need in the first place to be able to find ten cases? 30? 100? You do realize that the higher that number gets, the more difficult the test will be to perform, right?

BTW, did you answer Kuko in the beginning of the thread? Are you Finnish?

ETA: Pixel beat me to it! Sorry for the repetition...
 
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Locknar:

Unless changes are made to my preliminary testing protocol with the IIG, I am required to make ten observations, each in one out of ten persons. In the case that I do make ten observations, the test can be checked for accuracy and the accuracy of those ten answers is statistically found to make a passed or a failed test.

In the case that I can not make ten observations, it is because the material for the test (ie. the persons with health conditions) is not adequate to fit what my ability can do and I can not let that constitute a failed test.

I will absolutely admit to a failure if I make incorrect observations.
 
II was just saying that no matter what the results of the tests are, the ability that I have will stay the same and not go away, and for my own purposes of having the ability I do not need a test to confirm that I am making observations since I already know I am making observations. I am having the tests to find out what the source of the observations are.
... and whether they are more accurate than would be expected by chance, once all factors other than your supposed ability have been eliminated as an explanation of your self-perceived accuracy.

Until you have done a controlled test of the kind we have been discussing, you cannot be sure that your perception of your ability and what you can do with it is correct.
 
Vision said:
I am just as casual about my ability as everyone is about having eyesight. Sorry about that.
And we, in turn, apologize for thinking that this seems patently absurd. Open a clinic. Diagnose sick people. Take only a small fee for your services. Change the world.

~~ Paul
 
In the case that I can not make ten observations, it is because the material for the test (ie. the persons with health conditions) is not adequate to fit what my ability can do and I can not let that constitute a failed test.
"Adequate" should be clearly defined in the protocol, otherwise it is ambiguous and provides a "out" if you fail.

I will absolutely admit to a failure if I make incorrect observations.
What constitutes a correct or incorrect observation? Given the use of ambiguous terms, I'd suggest this is not clearly defined.

Science it exact...your protocol needs to be as well.
 
Pixel42:
Right. Except with a different statistical significance. I'm afraid I wouldn't have to do quite as badly as five wrong out of five to fail the test. So far the IIG is proposing that I must make a total of at least ten observations, and that 90% of them must be correct.

Tapio:
I have no idea how many persons I would have to see. It really depends on each individual case. I am actually worried about this. The IIG has promised to provide at least 15 persons, and I have asked them to try to provide as many as possible within reasonable restrictions of time and effort involved. The list of ailments I have suggested as most suitable for the test should involve ones that are not considered detectable by ordinary means, as well as being ones that I have been the most successful with (successful referring to the frequency of observations).

I really can't be responsible for not detecting an ailment. All I can do is be hopeful that I will make the required amount of observations so that the test will have results as being either passed or failed.

Yes I am Finnish!
 
Yes I am Finnish!

Hieno homma! Erittäin lämpimästi tervetuloa tänne puupäiden pariin. Odotamme innolla muiden suomalaisten JREFiläisten kanssa testejesi tuloksia.

Kaikkea hyvää!

Sorry guys, I just had to do that! Not to worry, no conspiracies were made...good night, y'all!
 
Pixel42:
... and whether they are more accurate than would be expected by chance, once all factors other than your supposed ability have been eliminated as an explanation of your self-perceived accuracy.

Until you have done a controlled test of the kind we have been discussing, you cannot be sure that your perception of your ability and what you can do with it is correct.

Right.

Paul:
That is just unfounded. I am fully entitled to feel the way I do about the way I perceive the world which is normal to me. I am more amazed that all of you can't perceive vibrational information and see inside human tissue. Why should I have to feel all excited about something that's been part of my everyday life for many years now? I'd be exhausted by now.

Please people stop saying that I would make medical diagnose publicly when nowhere I have stated that I would. This is nonsense. People stop making false accusations about me and then getting all upset about them, I've had no part in this.
 
Vision said:
That is just unfounded. I am fully entitled to feel the way I do about the way I perceive the world which is normal to me. I am more amazed that all of you can't perceive vibrational information and see inside human tissue. Why should I have to feel all excited about something that's been part of my everyday life for many years now? I'd be exhausted by now.
People are usually amazed by the thing that is in the extreme minority, not the other thing that is common. People are usually amazed by the thing that defies physics as we understand it, not the other thing that is mundane.

Please people stop saying that I would make medical diagnose publicly when nowhere I have stated that I would. This is nonsense.
I didn't say that you said you would. I said that you should.

chillzero said:
I really don't think this is something to be encouraged.
It is if she can do what she thinks she can do.

~~ Paul
 
I think this has been discussed thoroughly, now the ball's in VFF's court.

No need to respond, VFF, you're spending much time writing already.

The weekend is almost gone!

(it is Sunday, right?)
 
I think this has been discussed thoroughly, now the ball's in VFF's court.

No need to respond, VFF, you're spending much time writing already.

The weekend is almost gone!

(it is Sunday, right?)
While I have no paranormal abilities...I predict there are/will be unforeseen complications that will keep VFF from completing this testing.
 
It is if she can do what she thinks she can do.

And that's why there's encouragement to test it. Why, on a site that promotes www.stopsylvia.com and the 'what's the harm' site, and the MDC, would you tell someone to indulge in such a thing?

Of course s/he should set up practice if s/he can prove that this is anything other than fantasy. But to tell someone to just go and open a clinic and charge people for 'medical' advice, and dismiss their efforts here to at least consider testing what they claim, is not what this forum is here for.
 
A broken clock is right twice a day. If you only look at it at the right time, it will appear to be 100% accurate.
As you've admitted, most of the time you don't observe anything. When you do observe something, it's not always possible to confirm. When you do confirm it, it's most likely there was some clue you picked up subconsciously. Doubtless, all the above happens WAY more often than the few times you've observed, confirmed, and had no possible alternative explanation other than coincidence. The thing is, you immediately rule out coincidence and say you perceive "vibrational information".
 
roger:
Be careful with the assumptions and conclusions you make. You don't know whether living versus dead tissue would be perfectly equivalent to my ability. I can see through layers of tissue, and even through hair and clothing, yet the information I read that is behind those layers is living tissue. I have never experienced being able to read into a leather purse.
And there you go. Your abilities don't work. Yet, instead of conclude that they don't work, you conclude the opposite, that they do work. Instead of counting this as a "miss", you don't count it at all. I assumed nothing - what I posted follows exactly from what you claim you can do. Since you can't do it, it shows your abilities do not, in fact, exist.
 
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