Obama is a Communist? Please debunk...

[UnrepentantSinner]

You know... the election is over. You can stop with the scare tactics and fear mongering.

 

[Coffee]

blah, blah blah..I suppose you could use the Clinton...blah, blah

Your long winded fear mongering diatribe proves nothing concerning Obama being a communist and your Clinton obsession continues to be strong.

 

[boloboffin]

So regardless of whether Obama "is" a communist (I suppose you could use the Clinton definition and claim he isn't), his views have certainly been shaped by them over the years and there are still many communists only an arms length from his campaign organization. They are delighted he won. Don't you think?

I think Obama's commie ways are just because he's a good Christian that reads and applies his Bible to his life. I think Jesus is delighted that such a good follower of his Way won. Shouldn't you be?

 

[gdnp]

Well for starters, William Ayers, who Obama spent years associating with, describes himself as one. So let's look at Ayers more closely.

First of all, he never renounced his terrorist activities during the Vietnam War and now says he didn't do enough. Bombing innocent people, that is.

This lie was debunked long ago. Why do you keep repeating it? The "didn't do enough" quote did not refer to bombings.

Now Obama defenders say Ayers is reformed.

Actually, anti-Obama fanatics say that Obama defenders say Ayers is reformed. Obama defenders say Ayers is irrelevant since he is not Obama's close friend or adviser. As Ayers himself admitted just this week.

"Pal around together?" Ayers said. "What does that mean? Share a milkshake with two straws? I think my relationship with Obama was probably like thousands of others in Chicago. And, like millions and millions of others, I wish I knew him better."

 

[mhaze]

I think Obama's commie ways are just because he's a good Christian that reads and applies his Bible to his life. I think Jesus is delighted that such a good follower of his Way won. Shouldn't you be?

Sure, just show us all where Jesus said you should redistribute other peoples' income.

Against their will.

Oh, you can't?

 

[MaGZ]

Well for starters, William Ayers, who Obama spent years associating with, describes himself as one. So let's look at Ayers more closely.

First of all, he never renounced his terrorist activities during the Vietnam War and now says he didn't do enough. Bombing innocent people, that is. So I guess a "small c" communist can still think violence to promote change is appropriate if the situation is right.

The SDS and Weatherman underground that sprang from it (and which Ayers helped found) openly proclaimed their goal was world Communism. And not with a "small c". Back then he wrote a manifesto titled "Prairie Fire" (http://www.zombietime.com/prairie_fire/ ) in which he said "We are a guerrilla organization. We are communist women and men, underground in the United States for more than four years." He said "We need a revolutionary communist party in order to lead the struggle, give coherence and direction to the fight, seize power and build the new society." That document was republished as a book in 2006, coinciding with the start of Obama's run for President. Coincidence? Maybe.

Now Obama defenders say Ayers is reformed. Maybe they think that his abandoning violence as the way to the SDS and WUO goal of making our society communist turns a "big C" into a more palatable "small c"? Afterall, Ayers is now just an *educator*. Never mind that his live-in girl friend back then was also an educator ... of small children. And she died while building a nail bomb to murder hundreds of innocent people at a military dance. Never mind that communist societies (from USSR to Red China to Cuba to Venezuela) know the importance of controlling the education of youth. They put a lot of effort into brainwashing the young.

So why wouldn't Ayers decide that the way to change the world to his liking was to become a professor? That wouldn't require that he change any of his core views ... say about capitalism. Indeed it wasn't long ago (2006) that Ayers attended an education forum in Venezuala and stood on a stage before a large crowd with communist ("small c"? "big C"?) dictator Hugo Chavez by his side. He gave a speech in which he said he supported “the profound educational reforms under way here in Venezuela under the leadership of President Chávez. We share the belief that education is the motor-force of revolution. . . . I look forward to seeing how you continue to overcome the failings of capitalist education as you seek to create something truly new and deeply humane.” Ayers concluded his speech by raising his fist and shouting “Viva Presidente Chávez! Viva la Revolucion Bolivariana! Hasta la Victoria Siempre!” Has he really changed?

And disturbing as that is, it's even more disturbing that Ayers had years to shape Obama's views about education. Remember, Obama and Ayers spent 5 years as co-chairs of a 100+ million dollar effort to reform education in Chicago that focused on teaching "social justice" in the classroom. Ayers was explicit about the need to teach children that America is racist and militaristic, and that the capitalist system is unfair and oppressive. A study done afterwords shows that the project didn't accomplish much beyond that, with no noticeable improvement in academic performance which is what it was sold to accomplish.

Ayers is now the recently elected vice president for curriculum of the American Education Research Association, the largest organization of education school professors and researchers in the country. The president of AERA was Obama's top education advisor during the campaign and she recently coauthored several education books with Ayers. Hard to believe that Obama then doesn't agree with her ... and Ayers. Who knows ... she may even end up as Secretary of Education.

So has Ayers really changed? Or has he just found a different way to approach the problem of making us communist?

In April of 2002, Bill Ayers said the following "I considered myself partly an anarchist then and I consider myself partly an anarchist now. I mean I'm as much an anarchist as I am a Marxist which is to say I find a lot of the ideas in anarchism appealing." And Ayers still openly calls for the end of capitalism and American imperialism ... the same thing the "big C" communists said they wanted in the 70's. In 2002, seven days after Ayers made the above statement, he joined Obama in a panel discussion at a gathering at the University of Illinois-Chicago on working toward social change and an extremely liberal agenda.

Could it be that Obama didn't know what Ayers really was ... what he thought back then? Well as Ayers said back in 2002 "I'm very open about what I think and nobody here is surprised about what I think." And in 2002, besides that panel, they were also going to Board of Director meetings of the Wood Fund. Four meetings that year alone. They had lots of social contact and time to exchange ideas. In fact, Obama admits to their talking on the phone and emailing one another to "exchange ideas". Yet Obama claimed during the campaign he didn't know that Ayers was a radical with terrorist credentials. How could he not know? And how could those discussions with "little c" Ayers not shape Obama's current ideas and views? Say about education and "social justice"? They sure hold a lot of common views on various topics. Just coincidence?

And Ayers isn't the only avowed communist that has had Obama's ear over the years. He admitted in his book the important mentor role that someone named "Frank" had when he was a teenager. Well now it's known that "Frank" was actually Communist Party member Frank Marshall Davis. He was a the hard-core Soviet apologist who was actively trying to spread communism through the unions in Hawaii at the time. He wrote poetry championing the Soviet Union and communism that he recited to Obama. And no doubt he talked about many other things from a communist perspective. How could this not have had an impression on Obama during those teen years when we are most impressionable?

And regarding those impressionable years, Obama's father wrote a paper called "Problems With Our Socialism" that advocated 100% taxation of the rich, communal ownership of land and the forced confiscation of privately controlled land. Think he wasn't a communist? Friends of Obama's mother described her as a communist sympathizer. In fact, she met Obama's father in a Russian class. Obama said "the values she taught me continue to be my touchstone when it comes to how I go about the world of politics." Hmmmmmm. Obama's brother Roy and cousin Odinga are also marxists. As is his older brother Abongo "Roy" who Obama wrote was “the person who made me proudest of all". Hmmmmmm. Are we to believe that none of these family members had any influence on Obama's views?

And let's not forget Obama was introduced into politics by Alice Palmer ... at the home of communist Ayers and his communist wife, Dohrn. At that meeting was Quentin Young, who described Obama and Ayers as "friends", and who was once accused by the House Committee on UnAmerican Activities of being a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). From 1983 to 1985, Palmer was on the executive board of the "US Peace Council". Several people, including Lawrence Wittner who was a 15 year veteran of the CPUSA National Council, say that the US Peace Council was created by Communist party activists. Several known communists served on the board beside Palmer. Nine years before that gathering in Ayers home, Palmer was the only African-American journalist to travel to the Soviet Union to attend the 27th Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. After that visit, she openly praised the Soviet Union in an article she wrote.

Yes indeed, the air around Obama has been thick with communists over the years.

Until it was noticed by conservatives, another communist member from SDS and Ayers school reform days, Mike Klonsky, had a blog on the Obama campaign website. Obama willingly accepted contributions during the campaign from various communist groups ... like the Communist Party USA and CODEPINK. He's had contacts with groups and individuals that espouse communism or communist agendas dressed up as something else. Like the Movement for a Democratic Society (MDS), which has several members of the SDS and WUO on its board, including Dohrn. The church he attended for over 20 years espouses Liberation Theology which clearly has it's roots in Marxism and espouses many of communisms themes. His campaign even allowed a band to play the Soviet National Anthem at the beginning of concerts which were given for Obama in places like Oregon.

So regardless of whether Obama "is" a communist (I suppose you could use the Clinton definition and claim he isn't), his views have certainly been shaped by them over the years and there are still many communists only an arms length from his campaign organization. They are delighted he won. Don't you think?

Thanks for the excellent post. I’m sure it gives the Obama Deniers something to think about.

 

[boloboffin]

Sure, just show us all where Jesus said you should redistribute other peoples' income.

Against their will.

Oh, you can't?

Jesus said that YOU should redistribute YOUR wealth and THEN follow Him. All good Christians are doing this and making sure their Christian government does this as well, correct?

 

[Dr Adequate]

Sure, just show us all where Jesus said you should redistribute other peoples' income.

Against their will.

Τίνος ἔχει εἰκόνα καὶ ἐπιγραφήν?

 

[Dr Adequate]

Thanks for the excellent post. I’m sure it gives the Obama Deniers something to think about.

No, it'll give you something to rave about, thought not being your forte.

 

[BeAChooser]

"Well for starters" I knew a guy for several years, but only saw him twice.

Well, as anyone can see from the above and all that's been posted about Ayers and Obama's relationship on other threads, that description doesn't begin to do justice to scope of the relationship and contacts that occurred between Obama and Ayers over more than a decade. But you keep spinning.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Sure, just show us all where Jesus said you should redistribute other peoples' income.

Against their will.

Oh, you can't?

Why add "against their will"? If you listen to anyone selling their utopian economy, they'll claim everyone is happy.

Also, I reject that all that is Christian came only from the words of Jesus. (In fact, if that were true, there would be no Christianity at all. Believe it or not, Jesus never wrote ANY of the Bible. We only have everything second- or third- or fourth-hand.)

At any rate, the strongest case is made as a teaching from Jesus' apostles in Acts 4 and 5. See this thread in the Religion section about those passages.

However, we also have the following:

Matt. 19: 16-25
Mark 10:17-25
Luke 18: 16-25

Luke 1:53

Some Christian communists also point to the Great Commandment (Mark 12:28-31) as leading to sharing the wealth.

Some also point to the "whatsoever you do to the least of my brethren" speech (Matt. 25: 31-46) as being communist in nature.

 

[BeAChooser]

You haven't pointed to any quotes from Obama, for example, that prove your paranoid, groundless assertion.

Here are some very good articles:

Regarding Ayers ...

http://www.usasurvival.org/docs/chicago-obama.pdf "Communism in Chicago and the Obama Connection"

Regarding Frank Marshall Davis ...

http://www.usasurvival.org/docs/hawaii-obama.pdf "Communism in Hawaii and the Obama Connection"

http://www.newswithviews.com/Kincaid/cliff243.htm "OBAMA'S COMMUNIST COVER-UP CONTINUES"

http://www.aim.org/aim-column/obamas-communist-mentor/ "Obama’s Communist Mentor"

Regarding Obama's father ...

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=303952499910291 "Like Father, Like Son ... Barack Obama's economic blueprint sounds like one his communist father tried to foist on Kenya 40 years ago, with massive taxes and succor shrouded as 'investments.'"

Sorry, but I'd say the verdict on this issue is still definitely out since clearly Obama shares a great many views with the above communists. And no matter what you call it, communism, marxism or socialism, the end result is pretty much the same.

And Obama's only defense to these concerns other than to completely ignore them was this little bit of miss-direction during the campaign:

By the end of the week he'll be accusing me of being a secret communist because I shared my toys in Kindergarten.

Make no mistake, communism is NOT about "sharing". It's about taking from people and giving to others. It's about FORCED wealth redistribution. And make no mistake ... this is what Obama advocates and is going to attempt now that he's President. Here's Obama back in 2001 explaining his concept of redistribution of wealth ... and even how to go about it using the court instead of the legislative branch (now doesn't that put a new light on the fact that Obama will likely get to appoint at least a couple Supreme Court judges this coming term):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck

One of his more ominous statement in the above is that the Constitution "Says what the states can’t do to you. Says what the Federal government can’t do to you, but doesn’t say what the Federal government or State government must do on your behalf."

That last bit is actually a more realistic description of communism than Obama's "sharing" red herring.

Oh yeah folks, *change* is a coming. Hope you really signed up for what's going to be imposed on you now.

 

[BeAChooser]

Originally Posted by BeAChooser
Quote:
First of all, he never renounced his terrorist activities during the Vietnam War and now says he didn't do enough. Bombing innocent people, that is.

This lie was debunked long ago. Why do you keep repeating it? The "didn't do enough" quote did not refer to bombings.

Debunked by who? Bill Ayers? Here?

http://billayers.wordpress.com/2008/04/06/episodic-notoriety-fact-and-fantasy/

Well remember ... Ayers also tried to convince everyone that his then girlfriend who blew herself up building a nail bomb that was meant to kill hundreds of people at a military dance actually killed herself just to keep the bomb from being used in that way. Yeah, right. I'm sure you buy that one too, gdnp.

Sorry, gdnp ... but one thing we should have all learned over the years is that communists (big C or small c) like to rewrite history to serve their purposes. Ayers is no different.

And never mind that Ayers married a communist (who also never renounced her terrorism either) knowing she murdered a policeman. That's a matter of public record. So again, I'm not sure I'm willing to take Ayers' word now, that what he said then isn't what he meant. Seems a little too convenient to me, given everything else we know about him and his obvious elation at seeing Obama elected.

Instead let's take a look at your assertion using other, more independent, more unbiased, sources. How about the very liberal NY Times?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63

No Regrets for a Love Of Explosives; In a Memoir of Sorts, a War Protester Talks of Life With the Weathermen ... September 11, 2001 ... ''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said. ''I feel we didn't do enough.''

Surely you aren't claiming the NY Times got it wrong, gdnp? What possible motive could they have for misquoting Ayers? And by the way, I really doubt the NY Times would have published that article had they known Obama would be running for President and knew Ayers.

Also, note that Ayers has not ruled out using violence again if he felt the need arise. When asked if he would do it all again, Ayers said ''I don't want to discount the possibility."

Actually, anti-Obama fanatics say that Obama defenders say Ayers is reformed.

You have a quote and source for this claim?

Obama defenders say Ayers is irrelevant since he is not Obama's close friend or adviser. As Ayers himself admitted just this week.
Quote:
"Pal around together?" Ayers said. "What does that mean? Share a milkshake with two straws? I think my relationship with Obama was probably like thousands of others in Chicago. And, like millions and millions of others, I wish I knew him better."

Again, I don't really think a claim by Ayers is worth the paper it is written on. The facts stand as I pointed out earlier and on other threads discussing this relationship. Obama and Ayers worked together on various projects for over a decade. In some of those projects they saw one another frequently. Their wives likely knew each other. They live within a few blocks of one another. It has been admitted they communicated by email and phone to discuss ideas. They both know people (like Mayor Daley) who say they are friends.

If anyone has lied, it is Obama and his campaign staff. When their relationship was first brought into public view, for example, his campaign claimed the first time they met was at that gathering in Palmers house. That was untrue. It was a lie. And so was Obama's misdirection that Ayer's was just some "guy" in his neighborhood. And I think so is Obama's latest claim that he didn't know Ayers' terrorist past.

And those are the facts. Regardless of what spin you put on them.

 

[gdnp]

Debunked by who? Bill Ayers? Here?

http://billayers.wordpress.com/2008/04/06/episodic-notoriety-fact-and-fantasy/

Yes, that will do. Your claim:

First of all, he never renounced his terrorist activities during the Vietnam War and now says he didn't do enough. Bombing innocent people, that is.

Bill Ayers own words:

1. Regrets. I’m often quoted saying that I have “no regrets.” This is not true. For anyone paying attention—and I try to stay wide-awake to the world around me all/ways—life brings misgivings, doubts, uncertainty, loss, regret. I’m sometimes asked if I regret anything I did to oppose the war in Viet Nam, and I say “no, I don’t regret anything I did to try to stop the slaughter of millions of human beings by my own government.” Sometimes I add, “I don’t think I did enough.” This is then elided: he has no regrets for setting bombs and thinks there should be more bombings.

The illegal, murderous, imperial war against Viet Nam was a catastrophe for the Vietnamese, a disaster for Americans, and a world tragedy. Many of us understood this, and many tried to stop the war. Those of us who tried recognize that our efforts were inadequate: the war dragged on for a decade, thousands were slaughtered every week, and we couldn’t stop it. In the end the U.S. military was defeated and the war ended, but we surely didn’t do enough.

So here we have Ayers specifically stating that he never stated "we did not do enough" refers to bombings. Why do you keep trying to put these words in his mouth? Do you have another quote where he states he wishes he had planted more bombs? Do you have someone who knows better what Ayers means than Ayers himself? Even if you don't believe what he says, don't you think it is dishonest to say that "he never renounced his terrorist activities during the Vietnam War and now says he didn't do enough. Bombing innocent people, that is"

Oh, BTW, regarding your claim of "bombing innocent people". How many innocent people did Ayers kill? How many did he injure?

Originally Posted by gdnp View Post
Actually, anti-Obama fanatics say that Obama defenders say Ayers is reformed.

You have a quote and source for this claim?

BAC, post 38, this thread, 4th paragraph, 1st line

Again, I don't really think a claim by Ayers is worth the paper it is written on.

Well, when Ayers states that "we didn't do enough" does not refer to setting bombs, and none of the bombs placed by the Weathermen killed anyone (except those who were making them, who could hardly be called "innocent") and you claim Ayers "says he didn't do enough. Bombing innocent people, that is," why should we believe any claim you make is worth the pixels it is displayed with?

 

[Thunder]

If Obama is a Communist...then Bush is a Fascist. How's that sound?

 

[ProbeX]

Well, as anyone can see from the above and all that's been posted about Ayers and Obama's relationship on other threads, that description doesn't begin to do justice to scope of the relationship and contacts that occurred between Obama and Ayers over more than a decade. But you keep spinning.

Your problem is that you still can't show any substantive relationship between the two men over the course of all those years they "knew" each other.

Each time you repeat this nonsense, you're at risk of strengthening your own delusion. You are merely wearing a neurological groove in your brain that makes you sound like an obsessive-compulsive in need of help. You almost sound like one of those church-o-holic weirdos that preaches about Obama being the anti-Christ.

 

[ProbeX]

Here are some very good articles:

Regarding Ayers ...

I say this in the most warm, respectable way I can: You remind me of some sort of raging lunatic.

Attack the argument, not the arguer

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode

 

[MIKILLINI]

<snip>
So regardless of whether Obama "is" a communist (I suppose you could use the Clinton definition and claim he isn't), his views have certainly been shaped by them over the years and there are still many communists only an arms length from his campaign organization. They are delighted he won. Don't you think?

Of course they have also seen the failure of the communist system as well.

 

[MIKILLINI]

<Snip>
Oh yeah folks, *change* is a coming. Hope you really signed up for what's going to be imposed on you now.

How similar this sounds to what was being said when Clinton was elected. What kind of shape was this country in when Bush took over?

 

[Coffee]

Oh yeah folks, *change* is a coming. Hope you really signed up for what's going to be imposed on you now.

Your paranoia and fear mongering is similair to that exhiibited by some folks during FDR's time. Those folks couldn't prove their claims of communist either. Of course as seen in the Joe McCarthy's "Red Scare Era" proving someone's a communist isn't neccessary if you're good at fear mongering. Thankfully you're no Joe McCarthy.