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Interview with Fred Phelps's atheist son Nate

That was hard reading, especially Shirley's rejoinders. Nate sounds like a deeply troubled man trying to rise above the horrors of his childhood. I admire him, but wonder is he has sought counseling. I hope so.
 
I have been wondering what it must be like to "see the light" in that family. Now I know.
 
Very well written article. Powerful, straightforward and succinct.

That story of Nate's own child being terrorized by religious indoctrination which he had thought completely innocuous really hit home.
 
That story of Nate's own child being terrorized by religious indoctrination which he had thought completely innocuous really hit home.
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Far too many believers - and unbelievers - grow up looking at one or more things as innocuous when they really aren't, by granting them some sort of special pleading. It could be disliking terrorism but still admiring and cherishing the stories of the partisans of your country. It could be a feeling of horror upon hearing of the tsunami and a complete disregard for the horrors of the Great Flood. I could go on and on.

There's a new movie coming out these days in Norway about Norwegian WWII partisans, and this has sparked a debate regarding the lack of openness about said partisans' war crimes, particularly their war-time executions of prisoners and political enemies. That our own brave partisans could have committed war crimes is simply something I never really considered, which is really just another of far too many examples of how so many have a Special Pleading Mode they snap into when thinking or talking about 'their own'.
 
Gilmar said:
Running from HELL: Growing up in America’s most hated family

http://www.ubyssey.ca/?p=5624

His sister Shirley replies in the comments, telling him to "shut your mouth".
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For some reason, I find "What in this world is he doing in Canada?" very funny. Who know what the Phelps think about crossing the border? It's probably a form of sodomy.
 
I saw the Louis Theroux documentary about this family.
Wow.
Just to bad that LT didn't seem to know very much about the people. Even I could tell them that they are not living exactly acording to the bible (why do I alwas forget the second 'b' when typing bible?), as Fred Phelps was saying.
A small point, but in many Dutch churches, women are not allowed to wear pants/trousers as these Phelps women do.
Anyhoo, I just have this to add:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/burstein/2979979221/
2979979221
 
Safe-Keeper said:
Far too many believers - and unbelievers - grow up looking at one or more things as innocuous when they really aren't, by granting them some sort of special pleading. It could be disliking terrorism but still admiring and cherishing the stories of the partisans of your country. It could be a feeling of horror upon hearing of the tsunami and a complete disregard for the horrors of the Great Flood. I could go on and on.
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I'm always struck by the tendency to focus on the horrors of another religion's sacred texts while ignoring the horrors of one's own.
 
Foster Zygote said:
I'm always struck by the tendency to focus on the horrors of another religion's sacred texts while ignoring the horrors of one's own.
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I think I've managed to find a solution to that problem. I've simply chucked all scripture out the window. It's working so far I think more people should try it. ;)


I can sympathize with Nate; my up-bringing was no where near as brutal and violent as his was. I was never even beaten, but I know what it's like to be a nine year old sitting in a pew while a pastor tells you how you're an evil sinner and that you're going to a place of eternal and unending torments for all eternity. It instilled such a shock in me that I was actually technically "saved" more than 12 times just because I wanted to make absolutely certain. And the irrational fear of hell still persists with me today. When I think the question; "what if I'm wrong?" I don't think about missing out on heaven or the love of God...I'm worried about hell.
 
Sad, and even sadder when you think that this doesn't represent anything like the extremes that religious indoctrination can entail.
 
Kthulhut Fhtagn said:
I think I've managed to find a solution to that problem. I've simply chucked all scripture out the window. It's working so far I think more people should try it. ;)
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It's worked for me. Although there are scriptures from various religions that I certainly subscribe to. The one's about compassion and generosity and mercy are all good advice, but I see them as simply expressions of human values, not the word of supernatural powers. The nice part about this is that I can say "Yes, treat others the way you want them to treat you", but I can chuck all the nonsense about infidels and damnation.

I can sympathize with Nate; my up-bringing was no where near as brutal and violent as his was. I was never even beaten, but I know what it's like to be a nine year old sitting in a pew while a pastor tells you how you're an evil sinner and that you're going to a place of eternal and unending torments for all eternity. It instilled such a shock in me that I was actually technically "saved" more than 12 times just because I wanted to make absolutely certain. And the irrational fear of hell still persists with me today. When I think the question; "what if I'm wrong?" I don't think about missing out on heaven or the love of God...I'm worried about hell.
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Yeah, I thought I was bound for Hell because I couldn't check my biological urges. Later in life I realized that every adolescent male beats it like it owes him money and I wasn't the only sinful freak in the world. How sick is it that a kid should be wracked with guilt and shame just because he has a fantasy involving the cute girl in his math class?
 
I remember being in elementary or middle school and letting go of Christianity. I remember being held back (not enough to stay put, though, fortunately) by the fact that if I was wrong, I'd be going to Hell. Which is sad, but demonstrates how the notion of hellfire and eternal damnation serves its primary purpose - to keep the masses in line.

Yeah, I thought I was bound for Hell because I couldn't check my biological urges. Later in life I realized that every adolescent male beats it like it owes him money and I wasn't the only sinful freak in the world. How sick is it that a kid should be wracked with guilt and shame just because he has a fantasy involving the cute girl in his math class?
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Homosexuality, comprehensive sex ed, abortion, contraception, lust, fantasies, masturbation, nudity... what is it with fundamentalists and this obsession of theirs with controlling other peoples' sex lives?
 
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Foster Zygote said:
It's worked for me. Although there are scriptures from various religions that I certainly subscribe to. The one's about compassion and generosity and mercy are all good advice, but I see them as simply expressions of human values, not the word of supernatural powers. The nice part about this is that I can say "Yes, treat others the way you want them to treat you", but I can chuck all the nonsense about infidels and damnation.
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The opinions of certain apologists, such as Vox Day, I find very alarming. They seem very all-or-nothing in this matter. If you don't completely accept the bible's view of morality then you're a nihilistic, morally relativist-egoist (even though I consider myself an altruistic moral relativist) and if you do agree with most of it, except the bit about God and the divinity of Jesus, then you're a moral parasite who is feeding off the morality of their God.


Yeah, I thought I was bound for Hell because I couldn't check my biological urges. Later in life I realized that every adolescent male beats it like it owes him money and I wasn't the only sinful freak in the world. How sick is it that a kid should be wracked with guilt and shame just because he has a fantasy involving the cute girl in his math class?
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I never had such a problem, fortunatly my parents were sane enough to inform me that such actions were healthy when I was given the talk.
 
The opinions of certain apologists, such as Vox Day, I find very alarming. They seem very all-or-nothing in this matter.
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Christians are all-or-nothing on a lot of matters. Either you have 100% free will, or you're a mindless robot. Either you go to Heaven or you end up in Hell. Polar opposites were popular back when this religion came about, and it shows.

Yeah, I thought I was bound for Hell because I couldn't check my biological urges. Later in life I realized that every adolescent male beats it like it owes him money and I wasn't the only sinful freak in the world. How sick is it that a kid should be wracked with guilt and shame just because he has a fantasy involving the cute girl in his math class?
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I never had such a problem, fortunatly my parents were sane enough to inform me that such actions were healthy when I was given the talk.
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/me is incredibly lucky he grew up in a secular household.
 
Kthulhut Fhtagn said:
I think I've managed to find a solution to that problem. I've simply chucked all scripture out the window. It's working so far I think more people should try it. ;)


I can sympathize with Nate; my up-bringing was no where near as brutal and violent as his was. I was never even beaten, but I know what it's like to be a nine year old sitting in a pew while a pastor tells you how you're an evil sinner and that you're going to a place of eternal and unending torments for all eternity. It instilled such a shock in me that I was actually technically "saved" more than 12 times just because I wanted to make absolutely certain. And the irrational fear of hell still persists with me today. When I think the question; "what if I'm wrong?" I don't think about missing out on heaven or the love of God...I'm worried about hell.
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I went to a church like that for awhile. Men were always a step away from Hell, but women were only a half-step away. A co-worker asked if I had been to a Judgement House for Halloween (she said it was so awesome!!!) and I refrained from telling her what a flashback it would cause.
I really think attending that kind of church worsened my then undiagnosed depression.

I went to this church because a friend was going and my parents wanted me to make my own choices. My mom now wishes she had said no, don't go there. My mom marched for the ERA and if she had known what that church was teaching she would have pulled me out.
 
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I'm a bit troubled that the Phelpses know where Nate is now, considering how possessive people can react when they lose their "possessions".

But what a story.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
Homosexuality, comprehensive sex ed, abortion, contraception, lust, fantasies, masturbation, nudity... what is it with fundamentalists and this obsession of theirs with controlling other peoples' sex lives?
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In the minds of fundies everywhere is the terror that someone, somewhere, at that moment, might be having a good time. :D
 
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