What the hell happened to the Republican party?

[fuelair]

If you really listen to Mc Cain he has a clear explanation to how he wants to go about turning things around. My insticts and discernment tell me that Obama does not mean one word of what he promises US citizens. In fact after seeing some of these reports coming out on Obama's political involvement with extreem activist groups I wonder how the heck did he even get to this place where he could possibly win this election? God help us this is a crucial time in history.

Have you seen who Obama's cousin in Kenya is yet? Here's a clip... http://www.foxnews.com/hannitysamerica/ Also think about how Obama wants our military to pull out so badly? I think there is every indication of this man being a undercover Muslim and I'm sorry but that's not right for the US to put a Mulim into the presidents office. Wouldn't that just destroy us in ways we can't even fathom! I am a American girl and want this nation to turn back to the one true God that is not Allah.

And also I would like to add there is nothing wrong with McCain's choice of running mate. I have always known more women should get invoved politically to help this country and it's leaders have more of a contience. After all don't women seem to be more tuned in sometimes to the heart of the matter? And I am not saying all women belong in politics, Hillary scares the heck out of me with her fatal liberal beliefs. And I'm sorry if I am offending other liberals out there but I would hope we all step back and check ourselves and our beliefs from time to time. I once was pro-choice but have changed sides after becoming a born again Christian just 4 years ago. I am post abortive too and have had the Lord forgive me for it. All life matters to God and this country is in big trouble for making abortion legal. I have seen the error of my old ways and repented, I pray Hillary and all others that side with her views do to.

All I can truly add to this thread is that this world truly must repent and seek the Lord while he may be found. After all if God is for us who can be against us. And especially the US who was founded on Godly principles. What the HECK happened?? It's not so much what happened to the Republicans that's the question here, it's what happened to the human race?

You might wish to do a personality check. Previously you were merely funny - a tolerable thing just drawing subtle and not-so-subtle jabs. This seems to me a new level that suggests intervention of some type may be necessary. Consider counseling please. As a side note, the U.S. was not actually founded on dogly principles and Obama is not a muslim, nor do I suspect he is actually that much an xtian. I would be worried about him if I thought religion was that big a deal in his life.

As to Palin, I can say nothing remotely polite about her.

 

[kurious_kathy]

Hmm...perhaps we should, I don't know, FRIGGIN CHECK the principles this great nation was founded on on which this great nation was founded. What do ya say?

Article Six:



That's right, ARTICLE six...not Amendment. It has been here since day one.



Argh! I need to take a walk.

Well Abraham Lincoln was a Christian and so was George Washington so that statement is not true. And they made their faith very well known when they were in governemnt it's probably the reason they were elected.

Even Americas schools were started using the Bible to teach reading. Now they don't want us to pray in schools or in governement service and that in my opinion is very wrong. This country needs to be on it's knees seeking the Lord while he still may still be found , Jesus is the only protection we have from the many enemies America has!

I have a copy of The Primer that was published in 1777 that was used in our first schools and you can get a copy from Wallbuilders.com and see it for yourself if you are interested? Do you really believe the government wasn't in charge of that? The problem now is educators have changed history books to try to cover up the truth of our American heritage. I would suggest you check out Dave Bartons Ministry for more info.

 

[kurious_kathy]

You might wish to do a personality check. Previously you were merely funny - a tolerable thing just drawing subtle and not-so-subtle jabs. This seems to me a new level that suggests intervention of some type may be necessary. Consider counseling please. As a side note, the U.S. was not actually founded on dogly principles and Obama is not a muslim, nor do I suspect he is actually that much an xtian. I would be worried about him if I thought religion was that big a deal in his life.

As to Palin, I can say nothing remotely polite about her.

I apologize if I make typing errors, I admit I am not a great typist or speller, but don't you believe a man or woman of integrity is important for our country? I can't see a man of integrity in Obama and I can't help but shake by head and wonder how the heck he got this far? Are people so easily deceived? His backward and connections are not good!

The illegal activities of Acorn is not something a true man of character would be involved in. These people should be in jail for all the bad illegal things they have done, and Obama gave them $800,000 why would he support people or organizations who are known law breakers??

 

[Cleon]

Well Abraham Lincoln was a Christian and so was George Washington so that statement is not true. And they made their faith very well known when they were in governemnt it's probably the reason they were elected.

*sigh* Abraham Lincoln was not one of the founders of this nation, kathy, as important as he was. And while he was happy to use Biblical quotes and appeals to Christianity in his speeches, privately he was very reserved and never a member of any church. His actual religious beliefs are very much a topic of historical controversy.

As for Washington, he was a member of the Episcopalian (Anglican) church, but was not known for using the name of Jesus in prayer, and in fact he was directly responsible for the following words, which are part of the law of the land:

The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.

Even Americas schools were started using the Bible to teach reading. Now they don't want us to pray in schools or in governement service and that in my opinion is very wrong.

So you want me, a Jew, forced to pray to your God? No thanks.

If you want a theocracy, move to Iran.

This country needs to be on it's knees seeking the Lord while he still may still be found , Jesus is the only protection we have from the many enemies America has!

Really? I thought it was the US military. They've certainly won more wars than Jesus did.

I have a copy of The Primer that was published in 1777 that was used in our first schools and you can get a copy from Wallbuilders.com and see it for yourself if you are interested? Do you really believe the government wasn't in charge of that? The problem now is educators have changed history books to try to cover up the truth of our American heritage. I would suggest you check out Dave Bartons Ministry for more info.

kathy, you have no idea about the history of the education system of the United States. None at all.

 

[GreyICE]

Well Abraham Lincoln was a Christian and so was George Washington so that statement is not true. And they made their faith very well known when they were in governemnt it's probably the reason they were elected.

Yeah, I'm glad to know Washington's most noteworthy accomplishment was 'Christian.'

Even Americas schools were started using the Bible to teach reading. Now they don't want us to pray in schools or in governement service and that in my opinion is very wrong. This country needs to be on it's knees seeking the Lord while he still may still be found , Jesus is the only protection we have from the many enemies America has!

I have a copy of The Primer that was published in 1777 that was used in our first schools and you can get a copy from Wallbuilders.com and see it for yourself if you are interested? Do you really believe the government wasn't in charge of that? The problem now is educators have changed history books to try to cover up the truth of our American heritage. I would suggest you check out Dave Bartons Ministry for more info.

Ah, it's all a giant conspiracy. Time to explain more in the CT forum. Remember to mention freemasons, they're all the rage over there.

 

[SezMe]

I have a copy of The Primer that was published in 1777 that was used in our first schools and you can get a copy from Wallbuilders.com and see it for yourself if you are interested?

You need to become more refined in your selection of sources of information. Barton and wallbuilders are filled to overflowing with errors and lies. For example, that chestnut about Washington being a christian is wrong. Washington was a deist. His church affiliation was as a official, a position he had to hold in order to get the christian vote....just like politicians do today.

 

[Cleon]

You need to become more refined in your selection of sources of information. Barton and wallbuilders are filled to overflowing with errors and lies. For example, that chestnut about Washington being a christian is wrong. Washington was a deist. His church affiliation was as a official, a position he had to hold in order to get the christian vote....just like politicians do today.

That's not entirely accurate either, really. Washington didn't get into politics until fairly late in his life; he'd served on vestry of his local church as early as 1765, long before the Revolution or his participation in the US government.

Washington was very private about his religious beliefs; you could call him a Deist, but I don't think it's completely incorrect to call him a nominal Christian, either. IMO, his beliefs were likely a combination of the two.

However, what is certain is this:

• Washington felt very strongly about religious freedom, and was very much against any sort of involvement by the State in religious affairs; this is evidenced not only by his statements (see above about how "the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion"), but by his actions--such as his order to troops not to burn the pope in effigy on Guy Fawkes Night.
• Washington very much believed that as long as one was a good citizen, their faith (or lack thereof) was immaterial.
• Washington was certainly not a "Christian" in the sense that kathy uses the term. Capital-C Christianity, that is to say the "born-again" fundamentalist movement, is largely a product of the Second Great Awakening, which was in its infancy at the time Washington's life was ending. Even the most devout of the "founding fathers," were they alive today, would find kathy's brand of Christianity to be very, very alien.

 

[GreyICE]

Even the most devout of the "founding fathers," were they alive today, would find kathy's brand of Christianity to be very, very alien.

I think they'd know it for exactly what it is. They know the Salem Witch Trials. And I think they would oppose it with every breath in their body.

 

[Kestrel]

I think they'd know it for exactly what it is. They know the Salem Witch Trials. And I think they would oppose it with every breath in their body.

The Founding Fathers were also familiar with what happened during the English Civil War. Anyone familiar with those events should understand why it's a good idea to prohibit government from establishing a religion.

 

[davefoc]

kurious_kathy,
I am sure it is not easy to come here and post in an environment where so many people disagree with you. I congratulate you on your courage and your even temper.

-Dave

 

[SezMe]

That's not entirely accurate either, really. <snip>

I'll stand by my assertion that Washington was a deist but recognize that your post contained more nuanced detail then my blanket assertion. I think we can agree that the assertion that Washington was a christian as defined by today's fundamentalists is simply wrong.

 

[Cleon]

I'll stand by my assertion that Washington was a deist but recognize that your post contained more nuanced detail then my blanket assertion. I think we can agree that the assertion that Washington was a christian as defined by today's fundamentalists is simply wrong.

Fair 'nuff. My main objection was to your statement that "his church affiliation was as a official, a position he had to hold in order to get the christian vote." I really don't think that's accurate.

 

[wolfgirl]

I apologize if I make typing errors, I admit I am not a great typist or speller, but don't you believe a man or woman of integrity is important for our country? I can't see a man of integrity in Obama and I can't help but shake by head and wonder how the heck he got this far? Are people so easily deceived? His backward and connections are not good!

The illegal activities of Acorn is not something a true man of character would be involved in. These people should be in jail for all the bad illegal things they have done, and Obama gave them $800,000 why would he support people or organizations who are known law breakers??

I can't help but notice that you were busy on here typing during the debate. I guess since you already know all there is to know about this election from your church and Fox News, you don't have to waste your time actually listening to the candidates make their respective cases to the American people. That would be a waste of time...

 

[Elizabeth I]

To the OP - isn't it nice when you lament the fact that the United States has been overcome with the stupid and then someone like KK (suppose her middle name is Karen?) comes along and proves your point for you without your ever having to say another word?

 

[Hokulele]

... (suppose her middle name is Karen?) ...

Kynthia would be more korrect.

 

[MattusMaximus]

To the OP - isn't it nice when you lament the fact that the United States has been overcome with the stupid and then someone like KK (suppose her middle name is Karen?) comes along and proves your point for you without your ever having to say another word?

I was just going to comment on this point.

Since kurious_kathy is so fond of using such loose thinking as guilt-by-association and "what DON'T we know about him" kind of argumentation, I would like to point out that her initials are...

KK - which is one short of KKK.

Coincidence? I think not!

ETA: Seriously, I have no real reason to think kathy is a member of the KKK - I'm just trying to make a point by being snarky.

 

[Eddie Dane]

To the OP - isn't it nice when you lament the fact that the United States has been overcome with the stupid and then someone like KK (suppose her middle name is Karen?) comes along and proves your point for you without your ever having to say another word?

No, because I wish it wasn't so.

I have had some Americans tell me: Our political system is better because it disqualifies the lunatic fringe (like Front National in France). Small parties don't stand a chance. Or Israel where you can't build a government without making a deal with the religious nut-party.

Unfortunately I must conclude that this is not true. In the US the lunatic fringe is simply integrated into the mainstream party (on the right).

As an aside: I notice that the lunatic fringe on the left doesn't integrate that well. They seem to want their own little party. This is best observed in Italy, where the right mostly comes together under the Frorza Italia umbrella. The left is fragmented into tiny parties. These tiny parties then threaten to revoke their support as soon as their particular brand of Trotsky-ism isn't precisely followed. Left winged coalitions in Italy usually last from the start of the first cabinet meeting till lunch.

 

[davefoc]

No, because I wish it wasn't so.

I have had some Americans tell me: Our political system is better because it disqualifies the lunatic fringe (like Front National in France). Small parties don't stand a chance. Or Israel where you can't build a government without making a deal with the religious nut-party.

Unfortunately I must conclude that this is not true. In the US the lunatic fringe is simply integrated into the mainstream party (on the right).

As an aside: I notice that the lunatic fringe on the left doesn't integrate that well. They seem to want their own little party. This is best observed in Italy, where the right mostly comes together under the Frorza Italia umbrella. The left is fragmented into tiny parties. These tiny parties then threaten to revoke their support as soon as their particular brand of Trotsky-ism isn't precisely followed. Left winged coalitions in Italy usually last from the start of the first cabinet meeting till lunch.

You've touched on a lot of interesting issues in your post. The advantages of multi-party political systems versus two party systems has been discussed several times in this forum. One of the regular posters here, DanishDynamite, has argued that the multiparty systems are more democratic. I think he might be right, but I don't think it's as significant as he thinks

Your comments about the left not being able to form long term governing coalitions doesn't surprise me. My own observation is that left organizations are most strongly linked by their opposition to capitalism. But this doesn't translate into agreement over the details of implementing a socialist utopia and I would expect that any particular socialist group that gains power would quickly be opposed by the rest of the socialists because they aren't implementing the real socialism.

I thought your comments about it being harder to integrate leftist groups into a party party than it is to integrate right leaning groups into a political party was particularly interesting. Looking at the current US political system it might seem like that. But the Republican coaltion of economic conservatives, social conservatives and strong militarty conservatives is more fragile than it looks like from the outside. The three overlapping groups tend to have some views that are mutually exclusive. The political brilliance of the Republican party was how they managed to create a majority coaliton out of these groups. One idea, that has been put forward several times is that the coalition that was put together was so fragile that its collapse was inevitable once the Republicans got into power.

Empirically, it looks like that was the case. I don't think we will see Republican control of the house, the senate or the presidency for years and it might be generations before the Republicans again control all three siumultaneously.

In the US, the majority of the socialist left is integrated into the Democratic Party, I suspect, but it doesn't threaten the Democratic Party because it remains a relatively minor element that doesn't have the strength to do more than support the left's postion on various issues. They don't have anywhere enough strength to begin to force the nationalization of industries. If the socialist left wants to have any power in the US they need to integrate themselves into the Democratic Party and keep a low profile and that, for the most part, is what they do.

 

[kurious_kathy]

Well, if he does something particularly egregious, he can always be removed from office by successful impeachment, yes? Or do you think Obama will take over in a sort of Senator/Chancellor/Emperor Palpatine sort of way?

Actually with the contacts Obama has, I think he could really be key in the destruction of the USA and then the other powers that be could move in because we will have been made vulnerable, on purpose. I do suspect Obama has some very dark secrets and I just do not trust what's behind his smile. I see a phoney who does not mean one word of what he is promising those who vote for him. He wants power, what he'll do with it I'm not sure but I do fear for all of us Americans if we give it to him.

Sorry guys but I hope you will wake up and see what this guys true character is, he is not appearing to be a man of nobel character and I am very very concerned for the USA. If he wins, I think we lose and much more than we can even project!

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

And .. there's no evidence of this. And people who have looked into it haven't seen any...