Merged Colin Powell to endorse Obama on Meet the Press?

[Jimbo07]

"With the benefit of hindsight, I can see that Senator Obama was right about Iraq, and I was wrong; frankly I was duped by the Republicans whom I foolishly chose as my colleagues."

Just to reiterate, there's a difference between duped and coerced...

 

[chipmunk stew]

Powell has always been a press untouchable, and nearly everyone in the mainstream media fawns over his loyalty to superiors even if it's at the expense of truth. And had Powell resigned in the run-up to war, I'd have bet money Cicero would have talked **** about him then.

From a metaperspective, the endorsement is important because it solidifies the view that the adults are in charge. It gives Obama another stamp of approval from the establishment, and on the military-side from this highly respected figure. What we're actually talking about here is political currency, which is valuable because people think it's valuable.

I waver on Powell. I very clearly remember overhearing people on Feb. 6th (Ronald Reagan's birfday) saying Powell sold them. This young white woman in an economics class said, "Well, I was unsure, but he changed my mind." I think it was U.S. News and World Report who quoted Powell saying "this is ********" when he was vetting evidence to put forth at the U.N. Liberal Powell lovers want to sell this story about the guy deceived and bullied; a well-meaning but unwilling enabler, and perhaps that's partially true. Powell's loyal aide Larry Wilkerson has been on a bunch of documentaries criticizing the administration, but mostly focusing on post-invasion incompetence.

You have to separate the man from the position. I know people who hate their job, hate having to be dishonest to customers, or be complete aholes and bitches, but it's basically a job requirement, they need to eat, and it's not something they want to do forever. Powell decided not to go on for a second term, but he was still lying. He might be a nice guy, but he also made the decision to undermine his own credibility.

Ben and Chris Rock are both right -- he could've been president. In retrospect I think we can say he's not up to the job (Donald Rumsfeld walked all over him).

Very well said. Powell made a tragic error in speaking at the UN. His loyalty became a devastating weakness. That said, I don't believe he'd make that kind of error if he were in charge, and his history of decision-making where he was in charge bears that out.

I disagree with you on one point: I don't think this decision proves he is not up to the job of President. It just guarantees that he'll never have the chance to prove that he is.

 

[Cicero]

Just to reiterate, there's a difference between duped and coerced...

There sure is. But you have no evidence to support that Powell's presentation to the U.N., using photos that did not show what he said it showed, was a victim of duping or coercion.

 

[Jimbo07]

There sure is. But you have no evidence to support that Powell's presentation to the U.N., using photos that did not show what he said it showed, was a victim of duping or coercion.

Agreed. I do not.

However, the discussion seems to be lining up along the lines of "administration's liar" on one side, and "gullible idiot" on the other and I just wanted to throw in the reminder that there's at least a third option, if not more. Frankly, we may not ever know what was going on in his head.

The best glimpse we can get is in candid memoirs, but I'm sure they're targeted by whichever side comes out looking unfavourable, as being untrue.

 

[Uzzy]

Save for Colonel Wilkinson's interview with PBS. Source.

He was the Chief of Staff for the State Department, and worked closely with Powell on many matters, including his testimony to the UN in Feb 2003.

A few interesting quotes from the interview.

DAVID BRANCACCIO: And they didn't give you any inkling that--
LAWRENCE WILKERSON: Not a bit.
DAVID BRANCACCIO: -- there was this debate about some of this information?
LAWRENCE WILKERSON: Not a bit. In fact it was presented in the firmest language possible that the mobile biological labs and the sketches we had drawn of them for the Secretary's presentation were based on the iron clad evidence of multiple sources.

DAVID BRANCACCIO: We've been talking grand policy. The then director of the CIA, George Tenent, Vice President Cheney's deputy Libby, told you that the intelligence that was the basis of going to war was rock solid. Given what you now know, how does that make you feel?
LAWRENCE WILKERSON: It makes me feel terrible. I've said in other places that it was-- constitutes the lowest point in my professional life. My participation in that presentation at the UN constitutes the lowest point in my professional life.
I participated in a hoax on the American people, the international community and the United Nations Security Council. How do you think that makes me feel? Thirty-one years in the United States Army and I more or less end my career with that kind of a blot on my record? That's not a very comforting thing.

What do you suggest Powell should have done, given that he was told by the CIA that the evidence was rock solid? Powell's only real mistake was trusting those men.

Even after it was clear those men were not to be trusted, he stayed on until he could resign at a point when it didn't hurt his boss.

 

[Uzzy]

The oath he took at West Point is duty, honor, country. Presenting facts to the U.N. that you know to be untrue does not meet any of those standards. Powell was acting as a politician, not as an officer and a gentleman.

Except he was told that the evidence was 'Rock Solid'. This by the head of the CIA. He acted with honour, and trusted the information given to him by the CIA. That was his mistake, trusting dishonourable men.

The CIA didn't even tell him that the information was being debated!

Smart, educated , and thoughtful is a trait shared by many Americans. Standing up for what you beleive when doing so may jeopardize your standing is courageous. Telling tales out of school is just being smarmy.

Smart, educated and thoughtful is indeed a trait shared by many Americans. Save Palin.

And he did stand up for what he believed when he tried for 2 and a half hours to convince Bush that invading Iraq would be a mistake.

Anything else you want to smear an honourable, courageous man with?

 

[Cicero]

Save for Colonel Wilkinson's interview with PBS. Source.

He was the Chief of Staff for the State Department, and worked closely with Powell on many matters, including his testimony to the UN in Feb 2003.

A few interesting quotes from the interview.





What do you suggest Powell should have done, given that he was told by the CIA that the evidence was rock solid? Powell's only real mistake was trusting those men.

Even after it was clear those men were not to be trusted, he stayed on until he could resign at a point when it didn't hurt his boss.

Wilkenson didn't cover himself with glory in these comments. He and Powell look at photos that might as well have shown Tonka trucks and from the photos they both agreed that the CIA's analysis of this photo reconnaissance was that WOMD's existed inside the trucks. Please.

The whole point in showing a photo as evidence is that it shows the evidence. Why did Powell not ask for the evidence that showed what was supposedly inside these trucks? There is no excuse for this and neither Powell nor his apologists can lay the blame on Powell's naiveté, loyalty, or blind trust. That was a defense common at Nürnberg.

How many other photo recon pics has Powell looked at in his career and green lighted bombing missions based on what he saw in the photos? Surely he didn't just roll over and see things that were not there just because the guy who took the photo said there were. Then again, maybe we should look at past strike decisions Powell made using evidence from recon photos. There may be a pattern of inept analysis.

 

[Cicero]

Except he was told that the evidence was 'Rock Solid'. This by the head of the CIA. He acted with honour, and trusted the information given to him by the CIA. That was his mistake, trusting dishonourable men.

The CIA didn't even tell him that the information was being debated!



Smart, educated and thoughtful is indeed a trait shared by many Americans. Save Palin.

And he did stand up for what he believed when he tried for 2 and a half hours to convince Bush that invading Iraq would be a mistake.

Anything else you want to smear an honourable, courageous man with?

Bashing Palin doesn't get Powell off the hook, as much as you would hope it would.

If the evidence is not in the photos, but in the mind of George Tenet, then why bother to show the U.N. photos that do not show the evidence? Why didn't Powell go to Tenet and get the real poop before going to the U.N.?

Please explain what courageous exploit Powell engaged in since Vietnam, where he was awarded a Purple Heart and Bronze star after he stepped on a punji stick in 1963. You make it sound if Powell's life was in the balance if he didn't go to the U.N.

 

[BenBurch]

This is Hilarious. Repubs bashing a guy that, before they learned he might endorse Obama, they would have built a shrine to.

 

[Malerin]

This is Hilarious. Repubs bashing a guy that, before they learned he might endorse Obama, they would have built a shrine to.

Let the swift-boating of Colin Powell....Commence!

 

[Cicero]

This is Hilarious. Repubs bashing a guy that, before they learned he might endorse Obama, they would have built a shrine to.

I have said this about Powell since 2003. I couldn't care less if he endorses Obama. Obama is going to win regardless. Why would he want Powell to jump on his bandwagon at this late date? Powell should just fade away as old soldiers are supposed to do.

 

[dudalb]

Let the swift-boating of Colin Powell....Commence!

From some of the attiudes expressed here, the Repubs won't have to; certain people on the left will do it for them.

 

[chipmunk stew]

From some of the attiudes expressed here, the Repubs won't have to; certain people on the left will do it for them.

Ah yes. "Certain people." Such as...(*scans thread*)...

 

[SezMe]

What's amazing to me is the interest this possible endorsement has created. Has any other possible personal endorsement on either side generated this much interest? As far as I can remember, only Gore during the primaries comes to mind and that was far less than in this case. I don't get it.

 

[XBoxWarrior]

Bottom line...."Who Cares"?

Obama will win the election with only one "red" state victory from the '04 deal.

That is the facts...

McCain has to steal a "blue" state?

Argue that point of the election?

Obama has won...if there are No shenanigans in the courts.

 

[Uzzy]

If the evidence is not in the photos, but in the mind of George Tenet, then why bother to show the U.N. photos that do not show the evidence? Why didn't Powell go to Tenet and get the real poop before going to the U.N.?

Uh. What? Who brought photos up?

The CIA provided Powell with the information regarding Iraq's WMD programme. Powell believed that the information was more then adequate, as did many people.

It wasn't his fault that he was misled, that he wasn't informed about the dubious nature of the information. He was told it was 'Rock Solid' information. Surprisingly enough, he believed the experts.

 

[Uzzy]

Wilkenson didn't cover himself with glory in these comments. He and Powell look at photos that might as well have shown Tonka trucks and from the photos they both agreed that the CIA's analysis of this photo reconnaissance was that WOMD's existed inside the trucks. Please.

The whole point in showing a photo as evidence is that it shows the evidence. Why did Powell not ask for the evidence that showed what was supposedly inside these trucks? There is no excuse for this and neither Powell nor his apologists can lay the blame on Powell's naiveté, loyalty, or blind trust. That was a defense common at Nürnberg.

How many other photo recon pics has Powell looked at in his career and green lighted bombing missions based on what he saw in the photos? Surely he didn't just roll over and see things that were not there just because the guy who took the photo said there were. Then again, maybe we should look at past strike decisions Powell made using evidence from recon photos. There may be a pattern of inept analysis.

You're kidding right?

Intelligence experts are, surprisingly enough, the experts in regard to these things. If a commander is told by his intelligence chief that said buildings contain said items, who is the commander to disbelieve him?

Rightly, he should query him as to how he gained the information. Which Powell no doubt did. Clearly, he was satisfied as to the explanations given by the CIA. Further, he should ask how certain he is of the information. As we know, the CIA told Powell the information was 'Rock Solid', and from multiple sources.

If the CIA told Powell that there were doubts about the validity of the information, things may very well have turned out differently. We do know that once the truth of the matter came out, Powell called, rightly, for reform of the intelligence services.

Incidentally, he himself feels terrible about his address to the UN. There's a good interview here about it.

 

[MattusMaximus]

Ah...it would prove he is gullible and easily duped ?

That's obvious - he did, after all, cheerlead the whole "Iraq is an imminent threat" fallacy to the United Nations.

 

[SteveGrenard]

You mean these photos of WMD in Iraq:

http://www.museumofconceptualart.com/un_proof/un_proof5.html




By comparison check out the photographic evidence for the Cuban Missile crisis (1962):

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/cuba_mis_cri/photos.htm

 

[XBoxWarrior]

You mean these photos of WMD in Iraq:

http://www.museumofconceptualart.com/un_proof/un_proof5.html




By comparison check out the photographic evidence for the Cuban Missile crisis (1962):

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/cuba_mis_cri/photos.htm

Well, after looking at those pics, I am convinced that I should NEVER pay any more taxes...We need a new "Photo General".

If any Gubmint is relying on that non-sense, they should be hanged.

(Like that dude in Iraq)