How did things get this bad?

[arthwollipot]

Okay, I'm collecting fares for this bus trip to Reductio Ad Absurdum Canyon.

 

[PBTree]

That was John.



(Or was it in the john? No, that was the senator. Never mind.)

Ok, you got me.

 

[PBTree]

Does anybody have any advice? I don’t want to sever ties with my family but this election, and also my admitted atheism, has driven a wedge between us I don’t think we can overcome.

Easy .

No need to sever ties, just move. You can always ring them once a week.

Go to the Aus High Commission in Washington, tell them you are prepared to eat Meat Pies once a week, drive a Holden and will take up Australian Rules as a sport (20 yrs old, still young enough). Then emigrate over here. Tell them I sent you.

We have a few whackos but we keep them in their own suburbs. We also don't have too many bad spelling fruit loops like KK and her kin over here.

 

[arthwollipot]

We have a few whackos but we keep them in their own suburbs. We also don't have too many bad spelling fruit loops like KK and her kin over here.

Ahem.

Fred Nile.

 

[Laughingmonk]

I have strong opinions that's true, but I am concerned about our nation and the souls of men. I still stand on love what is good and hate what is evil. If I see something is evil I will speak up about it. People want to turn a blind eye and it's not good. There have been pastors arrested and I'm sure we will see more of them. I will have to research their names and locations but I will and then I will get back to you.

And if God orignally created us to be Holy and have fellowship with him doesn't it make sense that he would have to judge sin? He is Holy and we aren't, it's only through Christ's holiness that anyone has a chance of being forgiven and set free. After all there truly is no condemnation for those who are in Christ! I'm not perfect but I do know the one that is!!

Kathy,

From what you have written, I have come to a few conclusions:

1.) You honestly want to do the right thing.

2.) You have listened to yourself and others that you care about, and have found Christianity to have attributes which resonate with how YOu see the world.

3.) Unfortunately, and I cannot say this in any other way, it has left you Culturally Unaware.

You seem to have a thing against the concept of homosexuality. Would it surprise you to know that there are cultures out there that actually look upon it as the norm? Or the fact that some cultures view gender differently than we do? There are even cultures who view heterosexuality as taboo, only indulging in it for procreation, while the ingesting of semen by younger males from older males is a right of passage into manhood?

I suggest you read up on how other cultures view the world. It will allow to understand your own culture better, as well as come to a deeper understanding of how cultures interact with each other.

Ethnocentrism is a huge problem in the world right now. Perhaps some will dispute this with me, and I welcome any arguments to the contrary, but that is where I currently stand.

I doubt whether you know what ethnocentrism means. I am not going to tell you. I want you to figure it out for yourself.

If I sound condescending, I apologize. I honestly want you to grow in your knowledge about the world. Keep in mind, this does not mean I necessarily think you are ignorant, it just means you have little experience in this field.

I liked the story you posted, though I liked it for different reasons. You see divine intervention, wherein I see a person who turned their life around with the belief in something bigger than themselves. I am not going to debate the existence of god with you, that is not the point of this post. I do see that we have something in common, though it is obvious that we let it affect each other differently..



To the OP:

I'd hate to be in the position that you are in. I've been at odds with my family before (me being the ultra right winger and them being super dems), but never to that level.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

I doubt whether you know what ethnocentrism means. I am not going to tell you. I want you to figure it out for yourself.

Learned all about it in social studies class, from one heck of an... objective teacher.

In effect,

• pointing out that a lot of Muslims demonstrated after the Muhammad cartoons is ethnocentric and racist because apparently you can't say it without also stating that Muslims as a whole are intolerant.
• Going on number one, pointing out Muslim fundamentalists' ethnocentric attitude is ethnocentric.
• Number two is an exception. Pointing out others' intolerance is of course accepted and encouraged - as long as it's not Muslims.
• Saying that our life as people in the city is better than life as a native in the Amazon rain forest is ethnocentric and racist.
• Saying that life as a native in the rain forest is so much better than our life in the city is not ethnocentric or racist.
• Attacking the culture of an Islamic country is ethnocentric and racist.
• Attacking the culture of the USA is not ethnocentric and racist.
• Stating that the Muslim extremists do what they do because they adhere to Islamic teachings is ethnocentric and racist.
• Stating that the US and Israelis treat their criminals and enemies in a despicable manner because they adhere to Jewish teaching, and that we kind Norwegians, who are so much better than the Americans in pretty much every way, treat our prisoners justly because of our Christian values, is not ethnocentric or racist.

Her classes indoctrination sessions left me more confused than educated on this subject, but I think, from reading between the lines, that 'ethnocentric' means something like 'a person who thinks his or her culture is better than another person's culture', which seems to translate in my cynical eyes to 'don't attack aspects of other peoples' cultures, regardless of how unjust and intolerable those aspects are', because It's Their Cultuuuure!

 

[AWPrime]

What are the success rates of religion run homosexual retraining camps?

How is that surpused to work???

I think you answered your own question, it doesn't work.

 

[Toke]

Just curius as to what flawor of woo they used.

 

[Ladewig]

Just curius as to what flawor of woo they used.

It can range from fervent prayers coupled with the support of ex-gays to casting out demons. Most encourage the subject to marry someone of the opposite sex rather than simply remain celibate.

 

[Toke]

Thanks

 

[Laughingmonk]

@ Safe keeper:

Yes, I have heard those ideas thrown around to. What I was taught, and what I agree with in my experience, is that everyone is ethnocentric to some degree. We are raised in a certain culture, and we adopt it aspects of it that are hard to shift.

As to what your teacher had to say:

* pointing out that a lot of Muslims demonstrated after the Muhammad cartoons is ethnocentric and racist because apparently you can't say it without also stating that Muslims as a whole are intolerant.

I agree that this is baloney.

* Going on number one, pointing out Muslim fundamentalists' ethnocentric attitude is ethnocentric.

Also Baloney

* Number two is an exception. Pointing out others' intolerance is of course accepted and encouraged - as long as it's not Muslims.

It sounds like your teacher was overly tolerant of extremism.

* Saying that our life as people in the city is better than life as a native in the Amazon rain forest is ethnocentric and racist.

This is actually true, though I don't think that is racist. Cultures do not advance the same way. That was called the theory of Uni lineal Evolution, and it is generally viewed as being debunked.

* Saying that life as a native in the rain forest is so much better than our life in the city is not ethnocentric or racist.

This implies that your teacher was ethnocentric.

* Attacking the culture of an Islamic country is ethnocentric and racist.
* Attacking the culture of the USA is not ethnocentric and racist.

Attacking any culture, including your own, is ethnocentric. of course, that really depends on the definition of "Attack."

* Stating that the Muslim extremists do what they do because they adhere to Islamic teachings is ethnocentric and racist.

Not necessarily ethnocentric, but rather stereotyping.

* Stating that the US and Israelis treat their criminals and enemies in a despicable manner because they adhere to Jewish teaching, and that we kind Norwegians, who are so much better than the Americans in pretty much every way, treat our prisoners justly because of our Christian values, is not ethnocentric or racist.

I agree that is rather hypocritical.


It sounds like your teacher, while understanding the idea of ethnocentrism, didn't necessarily understand its true application.

Ethnocentrism is not wrong. It is is not right, either. It just is. For someone to recognize that they indeed have a bias, allows them to have a clearer understanding of other cultures.

Her classes indoctrination sessions left me more confused than educated on this subject, but I think, from reading between the lines, that 'ethnocentric' means something like 'a person who thinks his or her culture is better than another person's culture', which seems to translate in my cynical eyes to 'don't attack aspects of other peoples' cultures, regardless of how unjust and intolerable those aspects are', because It's Their Cultuuuure!

I would say just understand that you, as a human being, have ethnocentric views. This is what I trying to impress upon Kathy. That she understand that she is viewing the world through a very biased lens. When you start getting into the legal aspects of a multicultural society, then things become very interesting, and the ideas right and wrong become extremely complicated.

Mostly, I was trying to impress the idea that things are not as cut and paste as she makes them out to be.

Hope this helps! If you have any further questions, please PM me.

 

[supercorgi]

Oooo goodie. Kathy's back for another round of drive-by proselytizing.

 

[I Ratant]

Kathy,

From what you have written, I have come to a few conclusions:

1.) You honestly want to do the right thing.

2.) You have listened to yourself and others that you care about, and have found Christianity to have attributes which resonate with how YOu see the world.

3.) Unfortunately, and I cannot say this in any other way, it has left you Culturally Unaware.

You seem to have a thing against the concept of homosexuality. Would it surprise you to know that there are cultures out there that actually look upon it as the norm? Or the fact that some cultures view gender differently than we do? There are even cultures who view heterosexuality as taboo, only indulging in it for procreation, while the ingesting of semen by younger males from older males is a right of passage into manhood?

I suggest you read up on how other cultures view the world. It will allow to understand your own culture better, as well as come to a deeper understanding of how cultures interact with each other.

Ethnocentrism is a huge problem in the world right now. Perhaps some will dispute this with me, and I welcome any arguments to the contrary, but that is where I currently stand.

I doubt whether you know what ethnocentrism means. I am not going to tell you. I want you to figure it out for yourself.

If I sound condescending, I apologize. I honestly want you to grow in your knowledge about the world. Keep in mind, this does not mean I necessarily think you are ignorant, it just means you have little experience in this field.

I liked the story you posted, though I liked it for different reasons. You see divine intervention, wherein I see a person who turned their life around with the belief in something bigger than themselves. I am not going to debate the existence of god with you, that is not the point of this post. I do see that we have something in common, though it is obvious that we let it affect each other differently..
...

.
I like this!
Ignorance of the rest of the world is pretty much a sign of the fundamentalist mindset.
"Our way is the ONLY way! It's right here in our book!"
That other books say differently with equal fervor to those who read them is merely a sign that the other books are wrong.
Read enough of these books, and it becomes obvious that all of them are wrong!
True moral behavior transcends any religion.

 

[PBTree]

Ahem.

Fred Nile.

Agreed, though most of us just smile sadly whenever his name is mentioned.

 

[MIKILLINI]

Does anybody have any advice? I don’t want to sever ties with my family but this election, and also my admitted atheism, has driven a wedge between us I don’t think we can overcome.

No offense KF, but your elders are nuts. I feel bad for your sisters because they are being influenced by this same knee-jerk emotional immaturity. I know it must sadden you tremendously since you care deeply about them.
I suggest to break off ties, but somehow keep from severing them, because in the future you may be needed for your stability and common sense.

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Racism?

Actually today I heard something rather interesting listening in on a conversation between my mother and sister. I walked in half-way through the conversation and may have missing pieces that are necessary to put the quote in full context but I distinctly remember hearing my mom say "You're not dating no black boys" and that's an exact quote mind you. It wasn't that my sister is too young to date it's that the kid was black. Now, my mother claims she isn't a racist but I don't buy it. When I was younger she told me that I couldn't date a black girl for the reason that "we don't mix races" and the explanation for that was "God cursed black people". When she met my current girlfriend she reacted with genuine shock (as did every other member of my family) when they met my black girlfriend. On my mother's side of the family you can throw a rock and you're guaranteed to find criminals, a handful of murderers, white trash, drug addicts, child/spousal abusers and everyone one of them is a racist.

There was another incident a little while back in which my mother was telling me about Paul Mooney and his appearance on The Dr. Phil Show. Apparently since I'm the family anti-racist and multi-culturalist that means everytime an African-American acts callously I need to hear about, similiar to my being an atheist means that everytime someone commits a godless act I also need to hear about it. Anyways, I pretty much made a judge of my mom's character and determined that she was a racist based on what she said. Apparently Paul Mooney made a comment about an old study regarding black children and picking out the doll they found most attractive, which was the white one. And Paul Mooney said if he were there he would ask the kids to pick out the doll most-likely to be a serial killer and shoot up a school or a mall, meaning the white ones again. And rather than attack his argument or Paul Mooney himself my mom responded by saying "and if I were there I would ask the kids to pick out the doll that is most-likely to rob a liquor store, cheat the welfare system, rape a white girl, and have 9 babies...and ya know what there are white girls out there with 9 babies but I bet they had them with a black boy!" So rather than attack the argument or Mooney she went after the entire black race, I told her that pretty much sures up her racist credentials.

If he's still seeing his relations and talking to them, then it's a big step to stop. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's the wrong thing to do, but it isn't something to be casually decided.

Well my uncle, for the record, I'm not on good terms with but I make an attempt for his kids. The situation, like you said, is far more complex that what it seems.

 

[Polaris]

Call me nuts, I don't care, it's not a coinsidance that all these Calif. fires have been going since this judge made that ruling.

And I don't hate gays, I hate their sin. They need to acknowledge it's sin and then God will heal them. Nobody is born gay, that's just an excuse. God will judge people for their sin so I am obligated to share that knowledge with others. Jesus died for all the sins of this world, but once he comes inside us with his Holy Spirit we can't enjoy sinning anymore, the Holy Spirit convicts us of it. Do you get that? God is Holy and His laws are just. Just look at the warnings in scripture about who won't enter Heaven sometime. Do you even know where those are?

Interesting choice of words from someone who hates gays so much.

For the record I'd probably not enjoy sinning (or much else for that matter) if a man came inside me with his Holy Spirit.

 

[westprog]

Well my uncle, for the record, I'm not on good terms with but I make an attempt for his kids. The situation, like you said, is far more complex that what it seems.

It always is. Internet forums are not a great place for getting detailed advice about what to do in your life (though telling a bunch of strangers can be a good way to vent). You have many years of detailed experience of all these people. We have a few hundred words.


I wonder* how the black girlfriend affects your mothers attitude? She's a nice girl, so unlike the rest of them; she's a nice girl, so maybe they're all OK really; she can't be a nice girl so I won't talk to her; I have no son; and so on. How far one compromises in order to stay in touch with one's family is a personal decision.

*The fact that I wonder about it doesn't mean that you have to comment, of course.

 

[kurious_kathy]

That's silly. Both this year's and last year's were caused by an angry God. He knew the Californians were going to support the homosexual agenda, so it was fair to start punishing people in advance of their actual sin. There is precedent: when God flooded the earth He killed a lot of babies, but those babies were going to grow up to be wicked people so it was alright to drown them. [/fundamentalist apologist]

Well if you will recall the majority voted no on gay marriage and the judge over turned the majority vote. How the heck can they get away with that? I hope they over turn that descision. I think we are paying consequences of that act and I'm sorry you can't understand that. In fact I believe the whole USA is in big trouble if they do not repent! I will stand for what I know God says is evil whether you like it or not. After all I would rather be pleasing to my maker than people. I gave up people pleasing a long time ago.

 

[Beanbag]

Well if you will recall the majority voted no on gay marriage and the judge over turned the majority vote. How the heck can they get away with that?

Probably the same way the priests came up with all the obscure rules and do-nots that managed to make most normal human functions a sin. I don't think the majority agreed with the new policy, yet somehow it became religious law.

Deal with it. Just because everybody "just knew" blacks were inferior didn't make it so. Just because you swallowed that religious codswallop that there's something fundamentally wrong with mankind doesn't mean everybody believes that lie. Nor do they wish to. Rather than waste your (and their) time, why not go to the closet and atone for your own manufactured sins and quit bothering the grown-ups, who are trying to have an adult conversation? Be a good girl and run along.

Beanbag