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Joe the Plumber

Cleon said:
Seriously. This would have to be the most poorly-thought-out political stunt in recent history. He wasn't a plant. He's just some guy, who's now having his tax returns scrutinized by 300 million people because he dared to ask Barack Obama a question.
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Are you suggesting Joe is not telling the truth or the Wiki article is not telling the truth? I haven't bothered to check to see if the interview is online, anyone have a link.
 
Ausmerican said:
Uh Cleon? Does this planning meeting differ by an order of magnitude from the one where they picked the VP? The vetting process may have even been the same one.
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Teehee... :D Good point, indeed. :)
 
I don't think he was a plant, but I think he purposely misrepresented things in his question to Obama. I do get the impression he wanted to put Obama on the spot with his fake scenario too.
 
DavidJames said:
Are you suggesting Joe is not telling the truth or the Wiki article is not telling the truth? I haven't bothered to check to see if the interview is online, anyone have a link.
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It seems like he didn't understand the question. I think he heard it as "Were you contacted by the McCain campaign?" (not registering the part about "before his encounter with Obama").

I doubt he's a plant. And if he was, admitting it would seem to defeat the purpose.

ETA: The Diane Sawyer interview

ETA2: He actually answers "No" to the question about being contacted by the McCain campaign before encountering Obama. So the wikipedia article is misleading.
 
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Puppycow said:
It seems like he didn't understand the question. I think he heard it as "Were you contacted by the McCain campaign?" (not registering the part about "before his encounter with Obama").

I doubt he's a plant. And if he was, admitting it would seem to defeat the purpose.

ETA: The Diane Sawyer interview

ETA2: He actually answers "No" to the question about being contacted by the McCain campaign before encountering Obama.
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Thanks for the link.

Plant or not, I give lots of credit to McCain for this move. Many Americans, not to mention the (damn liberal) mainstream media eat this stuff up. CNN is reporting the latest polls show McCain closing on Obama. I would guess this story would be among the reasons why.
 
According to Vanessa Paradis, Joe moonlights as a taxi driver. This is clearly supported by the flawless subtitles when they repeatedly urge Joe to 'go ahead sinks'. This plumbing reference just cannot be ignored.
Undeclared taxi-driver earnings would easily explain the $250,000 figure. He also seems to hang out with a reclusive Van Morrison playing the saxophone.
In another clever employment of guilt-by-association you will note that the McCain campaign hired an Obama look-alike to drive the taxi. Genius.
 
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Ausmerican said:
Uh Cleon? Does this planning meeting differ by an order of magnitude from the one where they picked the VP? The vetting process may have even been the same one.
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I assumed that one involved lots of beer and a dartboard with names on it.
 
Puppycow said:
ETA2: He actually answers "No" to the question about being contacted by the McCain campaign before encountering Obama. So the wikipedia article is misleading.
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Mhmm, his answer is misleading as well... What about this? :

Turns out that Joe Wurzelbacher from the Toledo event is a close relative of Robert Wurzelbacher of Milford, Ohio. Who’s Robert Wurzelbacher? Only Charles Keating’s son-in-law and the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the infamous Lincoln Savings and Loan. The now retired elder Wurzelbacher is also a major contributor to Republican causes giving well over $10,000 in the last few years.

Source: Joe “the Plumber” Wurzelbacher related to Charles “the Crook” Keating. Oops.
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At the very least, this calls into question (again!) McCain's ability to do his homework.

Either that, or he knew all this about this guy and he just thinks everyone is too stupid to fact check what he says.
 
Cleon said:
Seriously. This would have to be the most poorly-thought-out political stunt in recent history. He wasn't a plant. He's just some guy, who's now having his tax returns scrutinized by 300 million people because he dared to ask Barack Obama a question.
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I agreed with you al the way up until that very last bit. He's just some guy ...who McCain thrust into the lime light. No one had heard of, or cared about, this guy until the debate.

I think Joe took advantage of an unexpected face-to-face moment with Obama to make a "Gotcha!" move, the details of which were largely fabricated. McCain, without looking into the matter any, in turn took advantage of it to make a point.

The thing is, McCain's point does not rest on Joe's truthfulness. If "Joe the Plumber" had been entirely hypothetical, his argument would have been just as valid, or invalid as the case may be. I think McCain is largely faultless in this, save for making an appeal to emotion over real-world facts and scenarios.

What I object to is making this opportunistic Joe the Plumber into a celebrity, which he will inevitably become on the talk radio circuit.
 
Upchurch said:
I agreed with you al the way up until that very last bit. He's just some guy ...who McCain thrust into the lime light. No one had heard of, or cared about, this guy until the debate.

I think Joe took advantage of an unexpected face-to-face moment with Obama to make a "Gotcha!" move, the details of which were largely fabricated. McCain, without looking into the matter any, in turn took advantage of it to make a point.

The thing is, McCain's point does not rest on Joe's truthfulness. If "Joe the Plumber" had been entirely hypothetical, his argument would have been just as valid, or invalid as the case may be. I think McCain is largely faultless in this, save for making an appeal to emotion over real-world facts and scenarios.

What I object to is making this opportunistic Joe the Plumber into a celebrity, which he will inevitably become on the talk radio circuit.
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I don't disagree with any of that.

In hindsight, my last sentence was phrased poorly.
 
$1,100 is not much in taxes and easily outstanding if he was not notified directly. Part of that is probably penalties. There is no type of notification of property liens. You must go to the courthouse and look it up yourself, but you wouldn't if you didn't know. Once, I forgot to add in a 1099. I paid the tax on it, but didn't include my 1099 attachment and the company that paid me did, so the IRS sent me a bill based on the difference. Another time, I underpaid my taxes by mistake and it took the IRS over a year to notify me (probably to enjoy those extra penalties). I don't understand why this part of the story is a big deal.

ETA: I just noticed they were state taxes. In Florida, I never had to file state. When I moved to Indiana, it was kind of weird to file state/local as well as federal.
 
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So basically since this guy had the audacity to ask Obama a straight question the media does'nt like it and is gonna ruin this guys life if they can.

I'd say par, how dare anyone question Obama on anything.
 
Drysdale said:
So basically since this guy had the audacity to ask Obama a straight question the media does'nt like it and is gonna ruin this guys life if they can.
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First, it was anything but a straight question.

Second, you didn't read what anyone said in this thread, huh?
 
Tailgater said:
$1,100 is not much in taxes and easily outstanding if he was not notified directly. Part of that is probably penalties. There is no type of notification of property liens. You must go to the courthouse and look it up yourself, but you wouldn't if you didn't know. Once, I forgot to add in a 1099. I paid the tax on it, but didn't include my 1099 attachment and the company that paid me did, so the IRS sent me a bill based on the difference. Another time, I underpaid my taxes by mistake and it took the IRS over a year to notify me (probably to enjoy those extra penalties). I don't understand why this part of the story is a big deal.

ETA: I just noticed they were state taxes. In Florida, I never had to file state. When I moved to Indiana, it was kind of weird to file state/local as well as federal.
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I don't disagree with what you say above, but if he's gotten to the point of getting a tax lien against him by the State, and he doesn't know he owes back taxes by that time, he needs to learn to open his mail.

It's not necessarily a big deal, but it's just one of those indicators to me that this guy is no where close to being able to buy (or even run) a business with an income of $250K.
 
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plumjam said:
True to form, 10 minutes before the scheduled start of his latest press conference he rang from his mobile saying he wouldn't be able to make it, as he was on the other side of town attending a call-out to an emergency press conference, but he did promise to try to make it 'by next Tuesday'. Sources close to Mr. Theplumber suggested such an optimistic timescale may be little more than a pipe-dream.
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Made me laugh PJ :)

I saw this chap on TV and thought him a pleasant enough individual with a good, dry sense of humour. The fact that he is a member of McCain's party and I believe voted for Huckabee in the Primary does tend to suggest that Obama was unlikely to secure his vote though - regardless of tax breaks or hikes.

The question he posed was therefore hypothetical with the intention of putting Obama on the spot. Nothing wrong with that and kudos to Obama for answering his questions - all four candidates need to do more on the street campaigning and less party faithful rallies.
 
Upchurch said:
I agreed with you al the way up until that very last bit. He's just some guy ...who McCain thrust into the lime light. No one had heard of, or cared about, this guy until the debate.

I think Joe took advantage of an unexpected face-to-face moment with Obama to make a "Gotcha!" move, the details of which were largely fabricated. McCain, without looking into the matter any, in turn took advantage of it to make a point.

The thing is, McCain's point does not rest on Joe's truthfulness. If "Joe the Plumber" had been entirely hypothetical, his argument would have been just as valid, or invalid as the case may be. I think McCain is largely faultless in this, save for making an appeal to emotion over real-world facts and scenarios.

What I object to is making this opportunistic Joe the Plumber into a celebrity, which he will inevitably become on the talk radio circuit.
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Excellent post.
 
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