10 story hole in WTC 7

[Christopher7]

Except you have no proof that is what he told them.

The proof is they said it.

 

[funk de fino]

The proof is they said it.

Well then you should clarify with them exactly what was said by whom before you label Sunder a liar.

Do you ever read something in a paper and think that every word is exactly as said to the journalist or investigator?

C7 what does the Final report say about the louvre vents? from a visibility point of view?

 

[Christopher7]

This photo from page 26 of the FEMA report clearly shows that there was NO fire in the north east generator room [louvers] at about 2:10 p.m. [see post 5103]

There is no reason to think a fire started after that time.

[FONT="][COLOR=Blue][SIZE=3]NCSTAR 1-9 vol.1 pg 330
[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][/LEFT]
[/LEFT]
[COLOR=Blue]Sections 8.9.1 shows that the worst-case scenarios associated with ruptured fuel lines generated fires that could not be sustained long enough, would have produced too little heat to raise the temperatures of the steel to the point of significant loss of strength, and/or would have led to the flowing of smoke out the [B]ventilation louvers[/B]*, which contradicts the visual evidence.
[/COLOR]
[LEFT][LEFT][COLOR=Blue]1-9 vol.2 pg 371 [/COLOR][/LEFT]
[/LEFT]
[LEFT][LEFT][COLOR=Blue][B]Result: [/B]The FDS simulation showed that the natural flow from the fire plume would have been out of the louvered openings on the east side of the building in a very short time. Significant plumes of[B] smoke would have been seen emerging from the building [U]within a few minutes of ignition[/U], contradicting the visual evidence[/B].[/COLOR][/LEFT]
[/LEFT]

I did not need a computer simulation to see the obvious and neither did the experts at NIST.

[COLOR=Blue]*[/COLOR]Any room with diesel generators would have to have ventilation all the time. [/quote][QUOTE="funk de fino, post: 4121958, member: 18244"]C7 what does the Final report say about the louvre vents? from a visibility point of view?​

They say the louvers made it difficult to see a fire on the 5th and 6th floors.

9-1 pg 49
Added in 1994 were nine additional generators that provided emergency power to the Salomon Smith Barney spaces . . . .
Two story* aluminum plenums that provided air for the diesel engines were located along portions of the west and east walls.

9-1 pg 52
a fire on the north side of the 6th floor would have been almost as visible (due to the tinted glass) as on one of the tenant floors.

*floors 5 and 6​

 

[funk de fino]

And?

 

[Christopher7]

Well then you should clarify with them exactly what was said by whom before you label Sunder a liar.

It is perfectly clear what was said and who told them.

 

[Christopher7]

And?

This photo from page 26 of the FEMA report clearly shows that there was NO FIRE in the north east generator room at 2:10 p.m.

Shyam Sunder LIED to PM when he told them that there was a fire on floor 5 that could have lasted up to 7 hours.

 

[funk de fino]

It is perfectly clear what was said and who told them.

So you assume and do not check before you condemn someone. Well done very human of you.

 

[funk de fino]

This photo from page 26 of the FEMA report clearly shows that there was NO FIRE in the north east generator room at 2:10 p.m.

[qimg]http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7392/copyofe5asn4.png[/qimg]

Shyam Sunder LIED to PM when he told them that there was a fire on floor 5 that could have lasted up to 7 hours.

OK C7. babysteps time

Were the vents open all the time?

What would have made it difficult to tell from photographs whether they were open or not?

 

[Christopher7]

So you assume and do not check before you condemn someone. Well done very human of you.

I did not assume anything. I read the article.
They said:
"a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours"

"Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel"

Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."

Perhaps English isn't your first language.

These are definitive statements. There are no qualifiers.
They are statements of fact.

Sham Sunder KNEW that there was NO fire on the fifth floor.

 

[Christopher7]

OK C7. babysteps time

Were the vents open all the time?

Yes.
Any room with diesel engines would have to have ventilation all the time.

 

[funk de fino]

Yes.
Any room with diesel engines would have to have ventilation all the time.

Are you sure they did not open automatically when needed?

What was covering them C7?

 

[Christopher7]

Are you sure they did not open automatically when needed?

Yes.
The exhaust louvers opened when the fans came on. The ventilation louvers would be open all the time to vent any vapors from the diesel engines and potential diesel fuel leaks.

 

[funk de fino]

I did not assume anything. I read the article.
They said:

a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours

You are assuming Sunder told them this part. Those are not his words they are Pop Mechs. Why do you not check?

Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel"

Does not specify which fire on which floor.

Sunder: Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel[to the fire] for a long period of time."

Perhaps English isn't your first language.

The words "the fire" are not Sunders. They are added by Pop Mechs. Again it does not sepcify which fire on which floor

Also english is more my first language than your matey boy. I am from the homeland of the language I do not speak the bastardised version you use.

These are definitive statements. There are no qualifiers.
They are statements of fact.

Except you can show nowhere that Sunder said floor 5 was on fire for 7 hours? Just that someone at pop mechs has written that in an article.

Sham Sunder KNEW that there was NO fire on the fifth floor.

No, he did not. You just think he did not. It was part of the working hypothesis.

 

[funk de fino]

Yes.
The exhaust louvers opened when the fans came on. The ventilation louvers would be open all the time to vent any vapors from the diesel engines and potential diesel fuel leaks.

Now you are assuming? Would be? Any sources for this one? You dont think the exhaust and ventilation were the same?

When would the engines be running?

What was covering the louvres C7?

 

[Christopher7]

You are assuming Sunder told them this part. Those are not his words they are Pop Mechs. Why do you not check?

There is no need to 'check'. The words are there to read.
They did not hear it from the tooth fairy, they heard it from Sunder.

Shyam Sunder knew that these statements were not true. He did not correct them.

 

[Christopher7]

The ventilation louvers would be open all the time to vent any vapors from the diesel engines and potential diesel fuel leaks.

Now you are assuming? Would be? Any sources for this one?

I know from my experience as a contractor that this is the law. [no, i won't look it up for you]

You should be able to figure it out for yourself.

Any room containing diesel engines has to be ventilated.

You dont think the exhaust and ventilation were the same?

No. The exhaust louvers closed when the generators were off which is almost all of the time. The ventilation louvers have to stay open all the time.

 

[Christopher7]

Also english is more my first language than your matey boy. I am from the homeland of the language I do not speak the bastardised version you use.

Then why is you spelling and grammar so bad?
Corrections in red
Also English is more my first language than yours matey boy. I am from the homeland of the language. I do not speak the bastardized version you use.

And why can't you understand that "a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours" is a definitive statement?

No, he did not. You just think he did not. It was part of the working hypothesis.

Do you seriously think that Shyam Sunder and all the experts at NIST couldn't figure out, as I did, that there was no fire in the north east generator room?

 

[funk de fino]

There is no need to 'check'. The words are there to read.
They did not hear it from the tooth fairy, they heard it from Sunder.

Shyam Sunder knew that these statements were not true. He did not correct them.

So after saying you are not assuming, you then do exactly that?

 

[funk de fino]

I know from my experience as a contractor that this is the law. [no, i won't look it up for you]

You should be able to figure it out for yourself.

Any room containing diesel engines has to be ventilated.

Does ventilation have to be louvres? There are many ways to ventilate these areas C7.

No. The exhaust louvers closed when the generators were off which is almost all of the time. The ventilation louvers have to stay open all the time.

Of course I would have to see your source for this?

What was covering the louvres C7?

 

[funk de fino]

Then why is your spelling and grammar so bad?
Corrections in red
Also English is more my first language than yours matey boy. I am from the homeland of the language. I do not speak the bastardized version you use.

Har har. Nothing worse than cocking up trying to correct someone is there?

See my red correction above.

I leave out one capital that probably is not needed. I leave out one letter at the end of a word, which you then repeat. Then you make a schoolboy error with correcting me on "bastardised". Very ironic, I suggest you look up my spelling matey. As I said, I use the original.

Too funny. Remember it was you who started the attempted insults.

And why can't you understand that "a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours" is a definitive statement?

Its definitive, but they are not Sunders words. Unless you can prove they are?

Do you seriously think that Shyam Sunder and all the experts at NIST couldn't figure out, as I did, that there was no fire in the north east generator room?

When did you figure that out C7? In the Appendix L they do not at any time say there was definately a fire in floor 5. They speculate there could have been, and that it needs further investigation.