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Bill Henson Photos: Child Pornography or Art?

BillyJoe said:
Bill Henson is an experienced and talented photographic artist, well respected within the art community. The children in his photographs and their parents have nothing but praise for him. His photographs, while confrontational, are artistically presented, and it beggars belief that anyone could characterise them as porngraphic. And I would rather see Bill Henson attend my daughter's school than the politicians who slander his character and mischaracterise his photographs.


I have have been unable to find a reference to Jodie Foster's experiences.
In the following link, the closest I can find is a reference to her being a bare bottomed 3 year old in a Coppertone commercial.
http://www.thebiographychannel.co.uk/biography_story/862:1203/1/Jodie_Foster.htm

Wikipedia doesn't mention it either:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodie_Foster
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The point is that parents would be told about politicians visiting the school, they weren't about Henson. Wonder why?

I heard the Jodie Foster story in a radio interview, but haven't checked it.

Talking about not checking things, examples of the "vocal minority".

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/poll/display/1,22053,5036195-5001021-1,00.html

www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/poll/display/0,22621,5036217-5006301-1,00.html

I could go on.
 
BillyJoe said:
Bill Henson is an experienced and talented photographic artist, well respected within the art community. The children in his photographs and their parents have nothing but praise for him. His photographs, while confrontational, are artistically presented, and it beggars belief that anyone could characterise them as porngraphic. And I would rather see Bill Henson attend my daughter's school than the politicians who slander his character and mischaracterise his photographs.
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I don't know much about Henson aside from what his models and their parents have said about him, which is uniformly positive. Another artist, Jock Sturges, has endured similar apporbrium and harassment; and again, his models have had nothing but positive things to say about him. (I've also had the opportunity to meet and speak with him briefly on two seperate occasions.)

By contrast, the local polititians who rant against "child pornography" and attempt to ban or prosecute artist like Henson and Sturges and Mann have a considerably less than sterling reputation. Like getting caught propositioning underage pages for sex.

I'd much rather have Sturges and Hanson in schools than Foley, Craig, or McHaney.
I have have been unable to find a reference to Jodie Foster's experiences.
In the following link, the closest I can find is a reference to her being a bare bottomed 3 year old in a Coppertone commercial.
http://www.thebiographychannel.co.uk/biography_story/862:1203/1/Jodie_Foster.htm

Wikipedia doesn't mention it either:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodie_Foster
Click to expand...
The closest thing I could find was her role in Taxi Driver; which did not, as I recall, involve nudity. I believe Lionking may have been thinking of Brooke Shields, who was photographed nude by Gary Gross when she was 10, and who did nude scenes at 12 years old as a child prostitute in Pretty Baby, her second movie role. While she did sue Gross when he exihibited the photos at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, describing them as "embarassing", I was unable to find an interview with her saying anything substantially negative about her role in Pretty Baby, merely claiming that the most scandalous bits were a body double.
 
BillyJoe said:
Bill Henson is an experienced and talented photographic artist, well respected within the art community. The children in his photographs and their parents have nothing but praise for him. His photographs, while confrontational, are artistically presented, and it beggars belief that anyone could characterise them as porngraphic. And I would rather see Bill Henson attend my daughter's school than the politicians who slander his character and mischaracterise his photographs.
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None of that gives him the right to walk around primary schools looking for children to photograph naked.
 
BillyJoe said:
Bill Henson is an experienced and talented photographic artist, well respected within the art community. The children in his photographs and their parents have nothing but praise for him. His photographs, while confrontational, are artistically presented, and it beggars belief that anyone could characterise them as porngraphic.
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You say that but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Killer has turned up in at least one collection of child porn images (it gets mentioned in passing in a senate report).
 
GreyICE said:
Wow, an internet poll. That can't go wrong.
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Yes internet polls are not totally accurate reflections of the public mood, but here we have disapproval rates of 85% and 92%.

The point I was trying to make was that the so-called elites see nothing wrong with a person who photographs nude children searching for talent in school playgrounds, whereas the majority does.

The fact that some of the parents at the school in question do not see a problem is also irrelevant because we run a state system here.
 
lionking said:
Yes internet polls are not totally accurate reflections of the public mood, but here we have disapproval rates of 85% and 92%.

The point I was trying to make was that the so-called elites see nothing wrong with a person who photographs nude children searching for talent in school playgrounds, whereas the majority does.

The fact that some of the parents at the school in question do not see a problem is also irrelevant because we run a state system here.
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So if 51% of the population thinks something screw the 49%? Or is this somehow not an argumentum ad populum?
 
NobbyNobbs said:
You seem to be stating that a child cannot give informed consent to have nude photographs of themselves taken.

Can a child give informed consent to have clothed photographs taken of them?
Can a child give informed consent to have photographs taken of them while in a bathing suit?
Can a child give informed consent to have photographs taken of them in underwear?
Can a child give informed consent to have photographs taken of them in a g-string? In pasties? Nude, but covered by hands or other objects?

I am honestly curious at what point you think the child loses the ability to give informed consent.

ETA: Also, when you are talking about a child, are you talking about a 4-year old? A 10-year old? A 17-year old?
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These are good questions. Has anyone attempted to answer them?

I don't know. We seem to think it ok to exploit children for our purposes. There are laws that help protect children in the media and things are better today than they were 30 or 40 years ago. But can a child give informed consent for any public exposure? I don't think so. Clearly we let adults make some decisions on their behalf but are the current limits sufficient? Is our need (desire) to see naked children in public venues more important than any potential harm?

I live in the LA area and we have friends with children who have been in commercials and print advertisements. They (the kids) seem healthy and well adjusted. However, when an opportunity for my child came up to try out for a commercial I chose not to because I'm concerned about that industry and think it causes more likely to cause harm than good.

Again, I don't know. Perhaps children shouldn't be in the public eye but I seriously doubt that is even worthy of consideration. Nude photos? I think a line could be safely drawn without worry of a slippery slope.
 
GreyICE said:
So if 51% of the population thinks something screw the 49%? Or is this somehow not an argumentum ad populum?
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I was responding to the claim that those opposing Henson scouting for talent in primary schools were a vocal, knee-jerk minority. These polls (and many others like them) seem to demonstrate the opposite.

I am aware of argumentum ad populum.
 
Randfan, the debate has moved on to Henson being allowed by a primary school principal to go to that school looking for models, which he may or may not photograph nude. I find this reprehensible, and so does the vast majority (as well as the government, judging from comments so far).
 
lionking said:
Randfan, the debate has moved on to Henson being allowed by a primary school principal to go to that school looking for models, which he may or may not photograph nude. I find this reprehensible, and so does the vast majority (as well as the government, judging from comments so far).
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Why do you find this reprehensible exactly?

Do you think that Henson is a child molester or something? If he was a child molester I'd be concerned too. If he's taking photographs, what's it matter?
 
Kevin_Lowe said:
Why do you find this reprehensible exactly?

Do you think that Henson is a child molester or something? If he was a child molester I'd be concerned too. If he's taking photographs, what's it matter?
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I don't think he is a child molester. Schools are supposed to be a sanctuary (amongst other things) for children. Anyone walking through a playground without parental approval looking for children he or she can make a profit out of is reprehensible. If he were taking photographs of potential models (and we don't know if he did or not) this would be illegal, as I am sure you know.

For those who may not be aware of the ages of children in primary schools, it can be as young as six. Are you comfortable that anyone, regardless of their "eminence", can be allowed to walk around a school yard evaluating very young children as models he may photograph nude?
 
lionking said:
Are you comfortable that anyone, regardless of their "eminence", can be allowed to walk around a school yard evaluating very young children as models he may photograph nude?
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Bearing in mind that he was accompanied by the school principal at all times, would you be comfortable if someone was allowed to walk around a school yard evaluating very young children as models to play, say, a kid enjoying a new brand of chocolate bar in an advert?
 
richardm said:
Bearing in mind that he was accompanied by the school principal at all times, would you be comfortable if someone was allowed to walk around a school yard evaluating very young children as models to play, say, a kid enjoying a new brand of chocolate bar in an advert?
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I'd want to know in advance so I could make my feelings as a parent known to the principal. That's the point. And, at least in Victoria, notices are sent out before things like this occur. Why not for Henson?

I think you will find that the principal will face some sanction for allowing this to happen.

And to answer what you thought was a rhetorical question, I would feel more comfortable (but not in approval) about someone scoping out my child for an ad rather than a nude photograph.
 
lionking said:
And to answer what you thought was a rhetorical question, I would feel more comfortable (but not in approval) about someone scoping out my child for an ad rather than a nude photograph.
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It was not rhetorical but a genuine question to determine whether your objection was entirely to someone going unannounced through a school playground to find children for profit, or entirely because the person was Henson. Seems as though it's a bit of both?
 
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