Experimental Evidence Against Official 9/11 Conspiracy Theory

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Mark Alan Sauer

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I have performed a small series of experiments and interpreted them to lessen the likelihood that a collapse of the WTC North Tower, once underway,would inevitably progress, as handed down by Bazant et. al. and embraced in the 2005 NIST report. I challenge the physics and/or engineering communities to present a model where such progression is inevitable when the impacting object is complex, not rigid.

My experiment can be found at:

http://www.rejectingbazants2ndhypothesis.info .

Thanks for letting me post,
Mark Alan Sauer, MD
 
I have performed a small series of experiments and interpreted them to lessen the likelihood that a collapse of the WTC North Tower, once underway,would inevitably progress, as handed down by Bazant et. al. and embraced in the 2005 NIST report. I challenge the physics and/or engineering communities to present a model where such progression is inevitable when the impacting object is complex, not rigid.

My experiment can be found at:

http://www.rejectingbazants2ndhypothesis.info .

Thanks for letting me post,
Mark Alan Sauer, MD

Sorry pal, this is blocked at my work, will have a look later
 
Sorry pal, this is blocked at my work, will have a look later

It leads to a Word Document to download. In it, the OP (a
medical doctor and an experimentalist with a research background in pharmacology and endocrinology) drops cinderblocks on Pleatforms.
Four separate platforms were constructed on which to perform these experiments. They were each constructed from stone or concrete and shown to be level using a carpenter's leveler before they were used in an experiment. A vertical cable (weighted via a bob to assure verticality) ran from the center of each platform to a ceiling hook or ladder truss inside, or to a particular tree branch outside. Platform #1 was built outside of four (4) flat patio stones reinforced below by buried cinderblocks. The cable ran five (5) meters (16 ft) vertically to a tree branch. Several control drops and longer drops were performed on this platform. Platform #2 was inside and consisted of cinderblocks supported on a terrazzo floor over concrete. The pilot study was performed on this platform. Platform #3 was a cinderblock construction on a screened porch area with a cement floor beneath. The preliminary experiment using tiers E#1 - E#5 was performed on this platform. Platform #4 was of solid concrete construction about 18 cm (7.25 in) thick and 81 cm (32 in) long by 41 cm (16 in) wide. It was utilized on the same concrete screened porch as platform #3. The larger definitive set of experiments was performed on this platform over three days.
 
Good Luck with your "scientific" paper Mark. I am sure many here will find it "interesting".

I for one based on CHill's description, do not have time to read a paper that almost certainly can not be used to extrapolate, in any way, to the real life situation of the tower collapse.

But good luck.

TAM:)
 
Another tray-stacker. Nothing to see here. How sad.

Each single tier was formed from an inverted, stackable, plastic paper tray that had been modified as described below. Mass manufactured Rubbermaid, stackable, desk trays were obtained at Costco.
Remember this guy?
trays.jpg



ETA:here's the good doctor's video of his tower construction:



Many more videos are indicated in his paper. I'm praying that this is an elaborate joke.

(Thanks to several members of The Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice, who helped to design several aspects of this work on their internet board and contributed to the final product as well.)
"Well, there's yer problem!"

Won't somebody think of the trays?
 
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Another tray-stacker. Nothing to see here. How sad.

Remember this guy?
trays.jpg



ETA:here's the good doctor's video of his tower construction:



Many more videos are indicated in his paper. I'm praying that this is an elaborate joke.

Won't somebody think of the trays?
You beat me to it Mark!

Just goes to show that medical doctors aren't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed when they venture beyond their area of expertise.

Mark Alan Sauer, how would you like a structural engineer performing open heart surgery on your mother?

And as for the experiment... :dl:
 
So, Doctor, what would make you believe this is scalable to the WTC? What makes you believe the materials you have chosen make a good analog for the materials used in the towers? What calculations have you done to show the forces at work in your experiment are equivalent to the ones in the towers?

You do have answers for this, don't you? Otherwise, you might as well have used chicken wire. Oh, wait, that one was already taken, wasn't it?
 
MAS' plastic tray experiment is a very good start to debunk the Bazant hypothesis of an upper tower block (B below) driving a global collapse of a lower tower block (A below) due to gravity only.

Another way is to use 60x60x3.7 cms pizza delivery cardboard boxes as follows:

Each cardboard box represents a WTC1 floor/perimeter walls in scale 1/100. The flat bottom of the box represents the floor and the sides of the pizza box represent the wall columns. The top lock of the box is removed.

Some adjustements of box sides may have to be done to model the increased (buckling and total) strength of the walls at bottom versus the top.

Thus you need 110 pizza boxes. You stack 95 of those boxes on top of one another and glue them together (to represent the butt welding of the wall columns). Each pizza box is evidently loaded with a suitable pizza, so that the compressive stress in the walls becomes representative (e.g. 30% of the buckling stress all the way).

The result is a 351.5 cms high tower of pizza boxes that you glue to the bottom support, e.g. a floor. Let's call this tower A.

The remaining 15 boxes are similarily glued together and loaded with pizzas to represent the 55.5 cms high upper block, we call it B, that will drop down on the pizza box tower A. You evidently fit a roof and a little mast on B (the antenna of WTC1) and why not attach a US flag on it?

Thus you simply have to hold B 3.7 cms (one floor level) above A and then drop B on A to simulate the initiation of the destruction of WTC1 in scale 1/100. Nothing happens at impact of course and the reason is that gravity acceleration follows another scale factor than simple length. So you have to increase the drop height 3.7 cms to a suitable value x so that the energy applied at impact becomes representative that knowledgeable JREF members easily can calculate. Otherwise just ask me.

So now we re-do the experiment with B dropping on A from height x.

According Bazant A shall now be crushed down (destroyed) at free fall speed/acceleration by B and the pizzas in A shall become dust, while the box walls of A crack as spaghetti and the thin box floors of A drop down. When A is completely destroyed (95 floors are stacked on top of one another in the footprint and the pieces of walls are spread around the foot print and there is a big dust cloud of ex-pizzas all around) the top block B is crushed-up in turn and disappears like A. The only thing that remains is the roof of B and the mast and the flag! Nothing dropped on that, evidently, so it should remain intact.

The good news is that the above will not happen at all (no ex-pizza dust!) and it demonstrates that the Bazant hypothesis does not work for a 1/100 scale model of WTC1. Actually it does not work for a full scale tower either, as B cannot crush down A at impact and remain intact.

The simple reason is that free energy E (or force F for that matter) at impact B against A is not just simply applied 100% to the top box of A as assumed by Bazant to initiate a global collapse of A, while B remains intact. Evidently only 50% of the energy E is applied to A, while the other 50% is applied to B. Same for the force F. Energy E is just F times distance - compression of A and B at/after impact.

This phenomenon will be seen in the pizza box experiment described above. You will see A and B deform at impact like accordeons and then bounce back, i.e. E will only elastically deform A and B. Or, if E is big enough, plastic deformation starts after deformation the same amount (50/50) of energy E is applied to A and B at impact, you will see B completely destroyed, while a large part of A remains intact.

Reason for this is that B is much smaller (and weaker) than A, and that A can absorb more elastic deformation energy than B before plastic deformation (destruction) takes place.

WTC1 is a good example: A (95 boxes) is 6.33 times bigger than B (15 boxes + flag), so A can absorb at least 6.33 more elastic strain energy than B at impact, before destruction (plastic deformation) starts. As the amount of energy is equally applied to A and B, you could in fact see B be destroyed while A is still just elastically deformed.

In reality (WTC1 full scale and Pizza tower model scale) and the fact that it takes some time for force F to transmit through A and B at impact, both A and B (apart from being completely elastically deformed) will be plastically deformed (really damaged) adjacent to the impact area, but still, as A is much bigger than B, B will suffer proportionally more damage than A.

Bazant in his devious hypothesis assumes of course that B remains intact all the time (while A is crushed down), but there is no foundation for that (or for many other things regarding 9/11 that are just fantasy).
 
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I'm going to repeat this quote, because it's important:
(Thanks to several members of The Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice, who helped to design several aspects of this work on their internet board and contributed to the final product as well.)
From my interview with Mercutio on the Skeptic Zone, posted last week:
Me: You have to know some science. Something about the way the physical world works. And a lot of these people don't. So to them, anything is possible. Not only that, but equally possible. And that's encouraged by people [like Steven Jones] who do know better. So they convince these people that their physical reality can actually be reality.

And so you get these guys, these pathetic guys, stacking Coke cans, on the internet, and dropping another one on top, and saying, "See, the whole thing didn't collapse, and so the World Trade Center shouldn't have collapsed, because this is a valid analog to the Towers. It's better than the computer models that the world's best engineers have developed."

And they believe it. And they're confident enough of that to make a video, often with their faces on it, and say, "Here's my message to you, world: I know more about engineering than the experts do." Total disdain for expertise, which is taught to them by people who are experts. Who know better.
Now we have Heiwa, who doesn't think planes hit the towers, supporting the plastic tray guy.

I can't even tell you how sad the behavior of these adults makes me.
 
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MAS' plastic tray experiment is a very good start to debunk the Bazant hypothesis of an upper tower block (B below) driving a global collapse of a lower tower block (A below) due to gravity only.

Another way is to use 60x60x3.7 cms pizza delivery cardboard boxes as follows:

Each cardboard box represents a WTC1 floor/perimeter walls in scale 1/100. The flat bottom of the box represents the floor and the sides of the pizza box represent the wall columns. The top lock of the box is removed.

Some adjustements of box sides may have to be done to model the increased (buckling and total) strength of the walls at bottom versus the top.

Thus you need 110 pizza boxes. You stack 95 of those boxes on top of one another and glue them together (to represent the butt welding of the wall columns). Each pizza box is evidently loaded with a suitable pizza, so that the compressive stress in the walls becomes representative (e.g. 30% of the buckling stress all the way).

The result is a 351.5 cms high tower of pizza boxes that you glue to the bottom support, e.g. a floor. Let's call this tower A.

The remaining 15 boxes are similarily glued together and loaded with pizzas to represent the 55.5 cms high upper block, we call it B, that will drop down on the pizza box tower A. You evidently fit a roof and a little mast on B (the antenna of WTC1) and why not attach a US flag on it?

Thus you simply have to hold B 3.7 cms (one floor level) above A and then drop B on A to simulate the initiation of the destruction of WTC1 in scale 1/100. Nothing happens at impact of course and the reason is that gravity acceleration follows another scale factor than simple length. So you have to increase the drop height 3.7 cms to a suitable value x so that the energy applied at impact becomes representative that knowledgeable JREF members easily can calculate. Otherwise just ask me.

So now we re-do the experiment with B dropping on A from height x.

According Bazant A shall now be crushed down (destroyed) at free fall speed/acceleration by B and the pizzas in A shall become dust, while the box walls of A crack as spaghetti and the thin box floors of A drop down. When A is completely destroyed (95 floors are stacked on top of one another in the footprint and the pieces of walls are spread around the foot print and there is a big dust cloud of ex-pizzas all around) the top block B is crushed-up in turn and disappears like A. The only thing that remains is the roof of B and the mast and the flag! Nothing dropped on that, evidently, so it should remain intact.

The good news is that the above will not happen at all (no ex-pizza dust!) and it demonstrates that the Bazant hypothesis does not work for a 1/100 scale model of WTC1. Actually it does not work for a full scale tower either, as B cannot crush down A at impact and remain intact.

The simple reason is that free energy E (or force F for that matter) at impact B against A is not just simply applied 100% to the top box of A as assumed by Bazant to initiate a global collapse of A, while B remains itact. Evidently on 50% of the energy E is applied to A, while the other 50% is applied to B. Same for the force F. Energy E is just F times distance - compression of A and B at/after impact.

This phenomenon will be seen in the pizza box experiment described above. You will see A and B deform at impact like accordeons and then bounce back, i.e. E will only elastically deform A and B. Or, if E is big enough, plastic deformation starts after deformation the same amount (50/50) of energy E is applied to A and B at impact, you will see B completely destroyed, while a large part of A remains intact.

Reason for this is that B is much smaller (and weaker) than A, and that A can absorb more elastic deformation energy than B before plastic deformation (destruction) takes place.

WTC1 is a good example: A (95 boxes) is 6.33 times bigger than B (15 boxes + flag), so A can absorb at least 6.33 more elastic strain energy than B at impact, before destruction (plastic deformation) starts. As the amount of energy is equally applied to A and B, you could in fact see B be destroyed while A is still just elastically deformed.

In reality (WTC1 full scale and Pizza tower model scale) and the fact that it takes some time for force F to transmit through A and B at impact, both A and B (apart from being completely elastically deformed) will be plastically deformed (really damaged) adjacent to the impact area, but still, as A is much bigger than B, B will suffer proportionally more damage than A.

Bazant in his devious hypothesis assumes of course that B remains intact all the time (while A is crushed down), but there is no foundation for that (or for many other things regarding 9/11 that are just fantasy).


Speaking of fantasies, you have claimed that dropping the top third of a building from a height of two miles onto the bottom two-thirds does no damage. This claim is, of course, completely insane. You made a laughingstock of yourself by refusing to recant your absurd error. Would you care to make a concession to reason and sanity by acknowledging that your understanding of physics is a tad flawed?
 
Speaking of fantasies, you have claimed that dropping the top third of a building from a height of two miles onto the bottom two-thirds does no damage. This claim is, of course, completely insane. You made a laughingstock of yourself by refusing to recant your absurd error. Would you care to make a concession to reason and sanity by acknowledging that your understanding of physics is a tad flawed?

Sorry, you must have misunderstood. x in the Pizza tower experiment is not two miles. Who has suggested that? Regardless - if you drop a smaller item B on a bigger item A and A, and B have equal strenght per volume unit, you must conclude that A can absorb more strain energy than B, i.e. that B will be more deformed and maybe destroyed before A at impact. It is quite simple, actually.

The Bazant assumption that little B is superstrong (no deformation, no destruction) and destroys the weak, bigger A at impact is so stupid that you wonder how it could be adopted by anybody and pass a peer review of any kind. Even worse, that NIST has adopted the Bazant hypothesis and associated assumptions just like that. Just shows that NIST is incompetent.

The real world is much simpler. Little B cannot destroy big A and it also goes for Iraq! (B is there the US army of course).
 
I challenge the physics and/or engineering communities to present a model where such progression is inevitable when the impacting object is complex, not rigid.
Before challenging the physics and/or engineering communities, wouldn't it have been prudent to learn some physics and engineering?

See questions 1, 2, and 10. Nuff said.




[Admiral Stockdale mode]"What am I doing here?"
 
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I have performed a small series of experiments and interpreted them to lessen the likelihood that a collapse of the WTC North Tower, once underway,would inevitably progress, as handed down by Bazant et. al. and embraced in the 2005 NIST report. I challenge the physics and/or engineering communities to present a model where such progression is inevitable when the impacting object is complex, not rigid.

My experiment can be found at:

http://www.rejectingbazants2ndhypothesis.info .

Thanks for letting me post,
Mark Alan Sauer, MD
So your need to prove the US government is evil negates the requirement for scaling or taking into consideration material properties?

How desperate….and interesting.

Your experiment is psychological in nature and has nothing to do with physics
 
Oh yes- Heiwa, can you please make an experiment showing what happens when you start a jet fuel fire in your 110 pizza boxes model?

Not required - the fire was assumed to be between parts A and B and is not part of the experiment that evidently is just what happens when B impacts A (due to fire having destroyed what held B to A).
 
Not required - the fire was assumed to be between parts A and B and is not part of the experiment that evidently is just what happens when B impacts A (due to fire having destroyed what held B to A).
But when the pepperoni catches fire this leaning tower of pizza is coming down...no matter which way you slice it.
 
Not required - the fire was assumed to be between parts A and B and is not part of the experiment that evidently is just what happens when B impacts A (due to fire having destroyed what held B to A).

Of course... "not required".

Neither is gravity, similar building materials, similar conditions, or similar construction.

Since you had to toss out logic to get there- that isn't needed either.

Pretty much anything goes when you don't need science.
 
Before challenging the physics and/or engineering communities, wouldn't it have been prudent to learn some physics and engineering?

See questions 1, 2, and 10. Nuff said.




[Admiral Stockdale mode]"What am I doing here?"

The NIST (Sunder) answers to questions 1, 2 and 10 clearly show that NIST (Sunder) does not know what he is talking about. In answer 1 he thinks the energy available (no calculation, of course) at impact (actually the only energy available) is only applied to the lower structure, while it should only be 50%, the other 50% should destroy the top block, etc. Answer 2 is not about the destruction and in answer 10 Sunder refers back to answer 1. Not very convincing. Sunder also thinks WTC7 collapsed due to thermal expansion - another fantasy.
 
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