Truthers and the FDNY

[johnny karate]

Why do the FDNY have any bearing on whether there was an inside job or not? It's not like they had access to everywhere within the stricken buildings, and were actually looking for suspicious objects.

I never made the claim the opinions of the FDNY determine the veracity of any particular theory.

I only ask for a plausible explanation how the firefighters present at WTC7 failed to miss what Truthers claim is so obvious, even though they witnessed the building's collapse firsthand.

If you'd care to offer a theory, I'd be interested in hearing it.

 

[Thunder]

The FDNY are not explosives experts any more then I am. They know about fires. They dont know more the difference between the sound of a bomb, a car backfiring, or a 10 ton beam collapsing, then I do.

 

[johnny karate]

And the list continues to grow!

mchapman had this to say about some footage from a film co-directed by a firefighter and made in cooperation with Engine 7, Ladder 1 of the FDNY:

Until I saw this video I thought video fakery was ridiculous

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yjQmxS-DpyM

but this video proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt. You can actually see 30 feet of the gash in the North Tower being pencilled in!

I'll have to say, I'm impressed with how he's raised the stakes. Up until now, most Truthers stop at accusing the FDNY of being merely dupes or after the fact accomplices. This is the first time (at least on this forum, that I'm aware) we've seen a Truther have the gall to actually accuse the FDNY of actively participating in the conspiracy.

Congratulations, mchapman! Just when it appeared we'd hit the bottom of the barrel, you showed up with a shovel.

 

[johnny karate]

New jack ULTIMA1 has taken time out of his/her busy schedule of choosing awesome screen names to let us know it was actually the FDNY who brought down WTC7:

Well for one, Larry Silverstein did not order building 7 to be pulled the fire commander did.

Second the firemen were out of buidling 7 before the call was made.

And just so we're clear on what's being said:

In your opinion, what does it mean to say the building was pulled?

Its a very simple term that means to bring a building down. Look it up.

 

[1337m4n]

New jack ULTIMA1 has taken time out of his/her busy schedule of choosing awesome screen names to let us know it was actually the FDNY who brought down WTC7:



And just so we're clear on what's being said:

...in a thread about whether or not Truthers make accusations, no less.

 

[ULTIMA1]

New jack ULTIMA1 has taken time out of his/her busy schedule of choosing awesome screen names to let us know it was actually the FDNY who brought down WTC7:
:

Well why don't we look at the facts (i know that is something new for you).


FACT 1. According to 2 fire chiefs the firemen were out of the building earlier in the day (before the call was made)

FACT 2. Since the firemen were out of the building before the call was made the fire commander could have only been talking about the buidling wen he decided to PULL IT.

 

[Gavron]

Please show us an example of a fire department "pulling" a 20+ story building that was still on fire... before or after 9/11.

You make it sound like fire depts do this all the time.

Just one example....one example of them "PULLING IT".

 

[johnny karate]

Well why don't we look at the facts (i know that is something new for you).


FACT 1. According to 2 fire chiefs the firemen were out of the building earlier in the day (before the call was made)

FACT 2. Since the firemen were out of the building before the call was made the fire commander could have only been talking about the buidling wen he decided to PULL IT.

If you want to back-pedal and make the monumentally retarded claim that FDNY fire chiefs at WTC7 were giving orders to everybody except firefighters, you go right ahead.

But your original comments remain with links back to the threads in which they appeared for context. People can read them and make up their own minds.

(Oh, and by the way? The fire commander you claim gave the order to "pull" WTC7 is FDNY, so even if it's only one person, your still implicating members of the FDNY.)

 

[johnny karate]

Well why don't we look at the facts (i know that is something new for you).


FACT 1. According to 2 fire chiefs the firemen were out of the building earlier in the day (before the call was made)

FACT 2. Since the firemen were out of the building before the call was made the fire commander could have only been talking about the buidling wen he decided to PULL IT.

And of course there's the rather prickly issue of the veracity of any claim made by the FDNY.

You claim WTC7 was "pulled" and at least one member of the FDNY took part. However, the official position of the FDNY is that WTC7 collapsed on its own, and not a single person from the FDNY has come forward to dispute this claim, nor lend any credence to yours.

So according to you, the FDNY have been lying for seven years about what happened at WTC7. And now you want to use the statements of people you're on record as believing to be liars as "facts" to prove your claims.

Classic Truther idiocy.

 

[1337m4n]

FACT 2. Since the firemen were out of the building before the call was made the fire commander could have only been talking about the buidling wen he decided to PULL IT.

This is not a "fact", it is an inference. Look up the definition of "fact" sometime, will you?

 

[1337m4n]

Not to mention fire departments do not have the authority to demolish buildings.

Nor is it possible to demolish a building at the snap of a finger even if they DID have the authority--demolitions take days, weeks, or even months, to set up.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Well why don't we look at the facts (i know that is something new for you).


FACT 1. According to 2 fire chiefs the firemen were out of the building earlier in the day (before the call was made)

The firefighters were pulled from around the building at 3pm, the phone call was made "sometime that afternoon." Can you prove that the call was after the order to withdraw? Can you prove that when Silverstien suggested their pulling out that he knew that the building had been evacuated?

FACT 2. Since the firemen were out of the building before the call was made the fire commander could have only been talking about the buidling wen he decided to PULL IT.

Can you provide any evidence that the Fire Commander said anything about "PULL" or "PULLING" anything?

 

[twinstead]

I wonder what "expert hat" ULTIMA1 will put on to argue his point this time.

 

[johnny karate]

All I've seen so far is a dunce cap.

 

[ULTIMA1]

Not to mention fire departments do not have the authority to demolish buildings.

Fire chiefs or fire commanders do have the authority to demo buidlings in an emergency.

Nor is it possible to demolish a building at the snap of a finger even if they DID have the authority--demolitions take days, weeks, or even months, to set up.

It only takes weeks or months in a normal demolition, this was not a normal demolition, as stated it was a emergency situation.

 

[ULTIMA1]

The firefighters were pulled from around the building at 3pm, the phone call was made "sometime that afternoon." Can you prove that the call was after the order to withdraw? Can you prove that when Silverstien suggested their pulling out that he knew that the building had been evacuated?

Well simply because Silverstin had no authority over what was going on. Why would the fire chiefs keep their men in a building untill getting the ok from a man that did not have any authority over what was going on.

Also the only reason the fire commander called Silverstein was to tell him they could not save the building, not if he pull his men out.

Can you provide any evidence that the Fire Commander said anything about "PULL" or "PULLING" anything?

Please see the transcript or audio of thephone call between Siverstein and the fire commander.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Fire chiefs or fire commanders do have the authority to demo buidlings in an emergency.

Not in NY, it's illegal to use explosives to drop a buyilding in Manhatten regardless of who you are.

It only takes weeks or months in a normal demolition, this was not a normal demolition, as stated it was a emergency situation.

Please provide evidence it can be done in less than two hours (the time from the firefighters being withdrawn to the building falling,) including getting the explosives to the building.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Well simply because Silverstin had no authority over what was going on. Why would the fire chiefs keep their men in a building untill getting the ok from a man that did not have any authority over what was going on.

No one said they did want an okay and this does not prove that the call was after the decision. Did you know that the call did not come from the person that made the decision to pull out the fire crews? Please show the evidence that the call was after that decision.

Also the only reason the fire commander called Silverstein was to tell him they could not save the building, not if he pull his men out.

This still does not prove that a) Silverstein knew whether of not the crews had been pulled out already, not b) whether of not the crews actually had been pulled out already. Kindly provide evidence for these things rather then waving your hands and merely claiming them to be true.

Please see the transcript or audio of thephone call between Siverstein and the fire commander.

Please provide a transcript or audio of the phone call, I have never found either thing on the net.

 

[Disenchanted]

Fire chiefs or fire commanders do have the authority to demo buidlings in an emergency.



It only takes weeks or months in a normal demolition, this was not a normal demolition, as stated it was a emergency situation.

What evidence do you have that the chiefs or commanders have the authority to demolish a building with explosives?

So they did what normally takes at least weeks in a matter of hours in a burning and unstable building? What evidence do you have for this?

All you have done so far in all of your posts is make outlandish claims like these with out providing anything credible to support them.

 

[Mince]

Please provide evidence it can be done in less than two hours...

Asking him to produce evidence for his many false claims is like asking a cat to recite Shakespeare...except the cat is more likely to recite Shakespeare.