Mark Roberts Interview on Skeptic Zone

[MarkyX]

So interviewing an anti semite makes you an anti semite? A journalist interviewed Osama, does that make him a terrorist?

Please link to some anti semetic writings of Alex Jones. I must admit I havent ever come across anything like that.

I've already shown you that he is accusing Jews of being part of the Obsession as "propagnda" and he has given a helping hand to Fabled Enemies. He also on Iranian State TV, the same country that thinks the holocaust didn't happen and wanted to wipe out the Jews.

Again, if you're trying to tell me Alex Jones doesn't have a thing against jews, why he is hanging around with those who do and even offer them advertising space on his website? A black guy wouldn't want to hang out with the KKK.

 

[DC]

and what real anti semites think about the truth movement

9) Most of the 9/11 truth seekers are Zionists
Jews make up a small portion of America and Europe, and Zionist Jews are an even smaller percentage, but they dominate the 9/11 truth movement. Could this be because Zionists are more interested in exposing the 9/11 crime? Smith thinks not.

It is more likely because they are trying to fool people into thinking that they are the truth seekers, when in reality they are diverting everybody's attention away from Israel and onto Bush, Cheney, the CIA, and a few military leaders.

Please consider that the people you trust to expose corruption, such as Amy Goodman (of Democracy Now), Alex Jones (www.infowars.com), Webster Tarpley (author of 9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA), Dave von Kleist (The PowerHour radio show), and hundreds or thousands of others are deceiving us.

http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_ZionSummary.html

thread failed.....

 

[MarkyX]

It isnt a fallacy. Its about influence which is what Gravy claimed originally. He claimed that a small number of influential anti semites shaped the truth movement.

I am just saying that Carol and Eric are not influential at all.

If they are not influential, why are people still using their theories 7 years later?

Even David Ray Griffin is using the same argument about hijackers not being on the flight manifest by using the exact same "evidence" as Carol.

 

[Gravy]

I couldn't care less about that conference. It was attended mainly by people trying to discredit the truth movement. Note that the loose change people didn't attend. They made it plain they want to distance themselves from any anti semitism, but you don't like mentioning that.

These were the 9/11 Accountability Conference speakers and panelists:

Sander Hicks
Steven E. Jones
Jim Fetzer
Kent Knudson
Jim Marrs
Meria Heller (Keynote speaker)
Janette McKinlay

Some notable attendees:
Bob McIlvaine
Jon Gold
Phil Berg

Which of these was trying to discredit the truth movement, and is it your contention that the conference's co-chairman, Holocaust denier Eric D. Williams, was attempting to discredit the truth movement?

I await your answer or your retraction.

 

[mchapman]

If they are not influential, why are people still using their theories 7 years later?

Even David Ray Griffin is using the same argument about hijackers not being on the flight manifest by using the exact same "evidence" as Carol.

Bollyn, Piper, Hufschmid etc are all persona non grata in the truth movement. Carol Valentine is so obscure that nobody has heard of her, except those that are seemingly obsessed with holocaust denial.

The main theories were started by people with no link to holocaust denial whatsoever. Give it up.

 

[Gravy]

Bollyn, Piper, Hufschmid etc are all persona non grata in the truth movement.

Were they influential? Yes or no?

 

[mchapman]

These were the 9/11 Accountability Conference speakers and panelists:

Sander Hicks
Steven E. Jones
Jim Fetzer
Kent Knudson
Jim Marrs
Meria Heller (Keynote speaker)
Janette McKinlay

Some notable attendees:
Bob McIlvaine
Jon Gold
Phil Berg

Which of these was trying to discredit the truth movement, and is it your contention that the conference's co-chairman, Holocaust denier Eric D. Williams, was attempting to discredit the truth movement?

I await your answer or your retraction.

Wow, that really is a list of the top movers and shakers

Fetzer thinks space beams brought down the towers. Most of the others I haven't heard of.

How does a holocaust denier hosting the event make its content any less true or false?

 

[bje]

Is there any other kind according to you? Is there a single skeptic on the face of the planet that has posed a single legitimate question about the official position on 9/11?

You mean "evidence", Red. There is no "official position". There is only evidence.

I know it's hard for you guys to utter that word - after all, you have never been able to refute the evidence - but try really hard.

 

[mchapman]

Were they influential? Yes or no?

I don't think they were. Can you show they were?

I can honestly say that I have never read an article by any of them and I watched Eric Hufscmids film having no idea who he was.

Comparitively, Meyssan, Jones, Ruppert, and the guy who does wtc7.net are far more influential and dont deny the holocaust.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

I don't think anything could make it less true. The question is, if these people don't have any facts to base their claims on, what is their motivation?

 

[mchapman]

I don't think anything could make it less true. The question is, if these people don't have any facts to base their claims on, what is their motivation?

Have you seen all the signs the truth movement have held saying "Bush did 911"? Whats their motivation because im pretty sure Bush isn't jewish?

Nobody of any influence in the truth movement claims jews were responsible for 911. The only person ever accused of being involved was Larry silverstein but his jewishness is just happenstance. If anybody had said "pull it" it would have been pounced on.

 

[Totovader]

Clearly mchapman thinks he/she is the so-called Truth Movement.

 

[mchapman]

Clearly mchapman thinks he/she is the so-called Truth Movement.

What?

 

[Gravy]

Wow, that really is a list of the top movers and shakers

Yes, it is. Some of the best and brightest of the "truth" movement.

Fetzer thinks space beams brought down the towers. Most of the others I haven't heard of.

Since you don't know the leaders of the movement you're defending, I'll fill you in:

Sander Hicks: Surely you've heard of him. You cited his work a couple of pages back and challenged us to find anything wrong with it. Hicks is the author of the 9/11 conspiracy book "The Big Wedding" and is featured in Loose Change Final Cut. You've heard of that, right?

Steven E. Jones: Physicist, co-founder, Scholars for 9/11 Truth

Jim Fetzer: co-founder, Scholars for 9/11 Truth, helped organize Student Scholars for 9/11 Truth. Praised Holocaust denier Eric Hufschmid's research at the conference.

Kent Knudson: Co-chair, 9/11 Accountability Conference

Jim Marrs: Perhaps the most prominent conspiracy author in the U.S.

Meria Heller (Keynote speaker): Reporter, has interviewed several 9/11 conspiracy theorists and promoted their work. During her keynote address, she promoted Holocaust denier Eric D. Williams' book "The Puzzle of 9/11." Williams is also the author of "The Puzzle of Auschwitz."

Janette McKinlay: Artist and WTC neighbor. Provided Steven Jones with dust samples from her apartment to test. When the panel was asked why "Accountability" didn't extend to the conference's original co-chair, McKinlay said, "Well, Eric's right here! Let's ask him! Do you think that horrible things happened to a lot of people in World War II?"

Bob McIlvaine: One of the only 9/11 victim family members to support most of the major truther claims.

Jon Gold: Of the most popular truther website, 911blogger.com

Phil Berg: Attorney who has filed several lawsuits against the United States regarding the events of 9/11, including William Rodriguez's lawsuit.

I ask you again: you said most of the attendees were out to discredit the truth movement. Which of these truth movement leaders were there to do that?

 

[Totovader]

What?

You are committing the same old No True Scotsman fallacy over and over. If they're anti-Semitic, then they aren't "the Truth Movement". You have never heard of them. You didn't know who they were. You have never read their material... clearly you think you represent the so-called Truth Movement.

Maybe you don't realize that you're in a room full of people who have been studying this phenomenon for 7+ years, but you're a bit ignorant on who is who in the so-called Truth Movement, and quite incapable of even addressing the claims you have brought up. Instead, your only defense is to caw over and over "prove it prove it prove it" at the same time that your criteria for proof is completely absurd.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Have you seen all the signs the truth movement have held saying "Bush did 911"? Whats their motivation because im pretty sure Bush isn't jewish?

Nobody of any influence in the truth movement claims jews were responsible for 911. The only person ever accused of being involved was Larry silverstein but his jewishness is just happenstance. If anybody had said "pull it" it would have been pounced on.

Who said anything about Judaism? And who of any influence in the truth movement claimed Jews were responsible? Chris Bollyn. Most of the big names know they have to sell books so they can't make any claims that can be seen as racist or bigotry. And the main motivation behind Larry and the conspiracy theory behind him as well as the PNAC stuff is primarily the Jewish part. It goes on and on.

All you are doing is trying to show that if not every 9/11 crackpot is anti-semitic then you can pretend that the criticism against those that are (which is a LARGE part) is simply a witch hunt. You can try to continue the run around all you want, but for those of us here who have to listen to all the crackpot arguments day in and day out, a good chunk is based on anti-semitism. And a good chuck is anti-semitism being disguised as anti-zionism by people who think they are clever never to actually use the word Jewish, but place guilt on people for no other reason but being jewish.


But all of this is simply a typical crackpot distraction. You ignore the whole paper Mark wrote and focus on one strawman argument about it, which is an absolutely true statement. The issue here is that the 9/11 woo movement has no evidence to back up their claims. Many of the most influential members got many of their claims from anti-semitic articles.

You can pretend all you want, but you can't hide the fact that you cannot back up your conspiracy theories. All you can do is make these strawman arguments.

 

[mchapman]

You are committing the same old No True Scotsman fallacy over and over. If they're anti-Semitic, then they aren't "the Truth Movement". You have never heard of them. You didn't know who they were. You have never read their material... clearly you think you represent the so-called Truth Movement.

Maybe you don't realize that you're in a room full of people who have been studying this phenomenon for 7+ years, but you're a bit ignorant on who is who in the so-called Truth Movement, and quite incapable of even addressing the claims you have brought up. Instead, your only defense is to caw over and over "prove it prove it prove it" at the same time that your criteria for proof is completely absurd.

Have you actually been reading this thread?

 

[mchapman]

Who said anything about Judaism? And who of any influence in the truth movement claimed Jews were responsible? Chris Bollyn. Most of the big names know they have to sell books so they can't make any claims that can be seen as racist or bigotry. And the main motivation behind Larry and the conspiracy theory behind him as well as the PNAC stuff is primarily the Jewish part. It goes on and on.

All you are doing is trying to show that if not every 9/11 crackpot is anti-semitic then you can pretend that the criticism against those that are (which is a LARGE part) is simply a witch hunt. You can try to continue the run around all you want, but for those of us here who have to listen to all the crackpot arguments day in and day out, a good chunk is based on anti-semitism. And a good chuck is anti-semitism being disguised as anti-zionism by people who think they are clever never to actually use the word Jewish, but place guilt on people for no other reason but being jewish.


But all of this is simply a typical crackpot distraction. You ignore the whole paper Mark wrote and focus on one strawman argument about it, which is an absolutely true statement. The issue here is that the 9/11 woo movement has no evidence to back up their claims. Many of the most influential members got many of their claims from anti-semitic articles.

You can pretend all you want, but you can't hide the fact that you cannot back up your conspiracy theories. All you can do is make these strawman arguments.

I havent put forward a conspiracy theory to back up. I have only asked for evidence backing up the religion of the official story.

You got that positive ID of the hijackers yet?

 

[Gravy]

I don't think they were. Can you show they were?

We already did, in this thread. Specifically which parts of our analysis do you dispute? Cite the posts and statements, and clearly explain why you think they're wrong.

See how this works?

Further, see my comment above where very influential TM leader Fetzer praised Hufschmid's work. Hufschmid was featured in Penn & Teller's "Bull...." 9/11 episode. As I pointed out in this thread, the Loose Change leaders did an interview with Hufschmid, praised his work, and asked for his support.

 

[mchapman]

Yes, it is. Some of the best and brightest of the "truth" movement.

Since you don't know the leaders of the movement you're defending, I'll fill you in:

Sander Hicks: Surely you've heard of him. You cited his work a couple of pages back and challenged us to find anything wrong with it. Hicks is the author of the 9/11 conspiracy book "The Big Wedding" and is featured in Loose Change Final Cut. You've heard of that, right?

Steven E. Jones: Physicist, co-founder, Scholars for 9/11 Truth

Jim Fetzer: co-founder, Scholars for 9/11 Truth, helped organize Student Scholars for 9/11 Truth. Praised Holocaust denier Eric Hufschmid's research at the conference.

Kent Knudson: Co-chair, 9/11 Accountability Conference

Jim Marrs: Perhaps the most prominent conspiracy author in the U.S.

Meria Heller (Keynote speaker): Reporter, has interviewed several 9/11 conspiracy theorists and promoted their work. During her keynote address, she promoted Holocaust denier Eric D. Williams' book "The Puzzle of 9/11." Williams is also the author of "The Puzzle of Auschwitz."

Janette McKinlay: Artist and WTC neighbor. Provided Steven Jones with dust samples from her apartment to test. When the panel was asked why "Accountability" didn't extend to the conference's original co-chair, McKinlay said, "Well, Eric's right here! Let's ask him! Do you think that horrible things happened to a lot of people in World War II?"

Bob McIlvaine: One of the only 9/11 victim family members to support most of the major truther claims.

Jon Gold: Of the most popular truther website, 911blogger.com

Phil Berg: Attorney who has filed several lawsuits against the United States regarding the events of 9/11, including William Rodriguez's lawsuit.

I ask you again: you said most of the attendees were out to discredit the truth movement. Which of these truth movement leaders were there to do that?

Who elected them "leaders"? I sure didn't.