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Mark Roberts Interview on Skeptic Zone

Mark Roberts: “If you can point out where these "extremist" skeptics have been influential to 9/11 conspiracy theory debunkers, I'll gladly look at your evidence. Where are their popular websites, their books, their DVDs, their conferences? How have they caused the debunkers to get anything wrong?”

I can understand that you differentiate between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism but by lumping outright racists in with anyone sharing an opinion with them on 9/11 issues you’re doing the latter group a huge disservice.
My point, which I made repeatedly in the podcast interview, is that many truthers have been influenced by people with agendas not related to the facts of 9/11. You did not support your claim that the same is true of debunkers.

Clear enough?
 
ahhhhh it's just like october 2006 all over again.....only i'm much better looking now.
 
Wrong.

- Steven Jones' "research" on Thermite was based on Chris Bollyn's article about the "molten steel". He even cites Chris Bollyn and there is a picture of the two together.

- Loose Change practically used AFP for nearly every claim. The pentagon engines, the molten steel, etc.

- Carol Valentine's theories such as fake passports, no muslim hijackers, and a drone plane hitting the Pentagon are still used in mainstream 9/11 denialism. His theories spouted in October 2001, before any investigation was done.

- Eric was interviewed on 9/11 mysteries, another popular 9/11 denier film.

Again, all you need to do is look at WTC7 to see the anti-semite influence on the movement. There were other buildings collapsed not mentioned in the 9/11 commission (nor they should be), so why the focus on WTC7? Jews. There is no other reason.

And now with Alex Jones saying that Obsession DVD is propaganda (despite using Arab's own footage and spoke with people from middle eastern countries), AJ is saying Jews are behind it and sides with the CAIR, an Islamic extremist group.

You might not like it but Anti-semitism is still a big fish in the 9/11 denier pool.

No, you're wrong. It's a fallacy to say that anything from AFP is false because the owner is a racist. Claims must be evaluated on their own merit. People who support factual claims made by racists are not racists. Liars and bigots can sometimes tell the truth.
 
No, you're wrong. It's a fallacy to say that anything from AFP is false because the owner is a racist.
Unless you can point to where MarkyX said or implied that, you have engaged in the fallacy of making a strawman argument and need to retract your statement.

Do you understand this? If not I'll be glad to explain it in depth.

ETA: this is the second time you've done this in this thread. As I pointed out to you on page 1,

"Your fallacy again. You miss the fact that I examined those AFP claims in my Loose Change Guide, and showed them to be false."
 
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You have no excuse for not having visited my website, since the link was given at the start of the podcast. Nor have you pointed out where or when I repeated anything like you claim I did.

Here are some sections of my site for you to consider before you judge if I have merely repeated government slogans. Let me know in a few years, after you've read the material, if you've changed your mind. You'll need to email me then, since you're going on ignore now. Best wishes in your studies.

I've visited your website on many occasions and I read your paper on WTC7 a couple of months after it was published at the Journal of Debunking 911 Conspiracy Theories. In the paper you don't really attempt to explain how the building collapsed. Your goal was to cast dispersions against the 9/11 Truth Movement for asking questions about it.

Nevertheless, I did show that those promoting the official story came to conclusions before any of the evidence was in. Jerome Hauer was on national television the day of 9/11 telling us what happened. Carol Valentine has some obscure website that practically no one reads.

@tanabear: The point you’ve made, that it was poor form to highlight the worst elements of the ‘truth movement’ as being notable when the exact same can be done with extremist ‘skeptics’, is a perfectly fair one and Mr. Roberts character would no doubt go up in the estimation of many people if he could acknowledge this. Unfortunately many here (on both sides of discussions) seem to take reasoned discourse as being some sort of contest to see whose original position will dominate, refusing to give ground in any area no matter how strong or reasonable the argument against them.

Exactly. Political parties and conservatives and liberals engage in the same tactics all the time. Conservative Republicans are racist, sexist, homophobic bigots etc. Liberal Democrats are all Commie loving America haters. As Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., said of the 1994 Republican Congress, "It's not 'spic' or '******' anymore. They say, 'Let's cut taxes." And Rush Limbaugh used call environmentalists watermelons. "They're green on the outside but red on the inside."

Mark Roberts has already decided that the 9/11 Truth Movement is comprised of moral reprobates so for emotional reasons he will never accept any evidence they offer. Many conservatives, such as Jonah Goldberg, supported the war in Iraq because the primary opposition came from the far left and Bush haters. "Well, I can't give credence to anything those crazy people say, so I'll support the war."


So explain to me why other buildings are ignored by the movement but the prime focus is WTC7?

The primary focus of the 9/11 Truth Movement is on WTC1,2 and 7. For some reason this also seemed to by the primary concern of NIST as well.

"What are the main objectives of the investigation? The primary objectives of the NIST-led technical investigation of the WTC disaster are to determine:
why and how the WTC 1 and 2 (the WTC towers) collapsed after the initial impact of the aircraft, and why and how WTC 7 collapsed
;"
NIST Factsheet.


Requesting that a nonexistent column be examined doesn't do much to refute my claim that you're part of a religious movement. Is there any evidence that might exist that would convince you that 9/11 was not an inside job, RedIbis?

I've stated on several occasions what it would require to falsify my beliefs that 9/11 was not an inside job. A steel-frame high-rise would have to be destroyed with impact damage and fire the same way WTC1,2 and 7 were destroyed. This would include destroying a building from the top-down to match the destruction of WTC 1 and 2(crush-down/crush-up). And destroying a steel-frame high-rise from the bottom-up to match the destruction of WTC7(implosion).

Shyam Sunder said that the NIST report on WTC7 was robust science. So I'm sure in the future we'll see demolition companies use the principles of thermal expansion to demolish steel-frame high-rises.

p.s. I suppose the Randi Forums will not allow the n-word even if one is quoting a Democratic Congressman.
 
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The "debunking" movement, if one wants to call it that, was not started in large or small part by people who express race or ethnic hatred and get everything wrong.

You may also want to consider my statement about the "truth" movement's rank-and-file members:

"This is a religious movement. It didn't, I think, start out that way. I think it started with a lot of people who had questions that they at least believed were legitimate, and lots of things were confusing and take some study and research. But it became, quickly, a religious movement. As I said, not a single significant claim correct. It takes a special kind of person to stick with that."

If I'm wrong about that, I encourage the truthers participating here to state what evidence would change their minds.

The problem with you, Roberts, is that you repeat ad nauseum about how the debunkers are "right" about everything, and the truthers are "wrong" about everything. Of course this is necessary for you because none of the truther's claims can be true in order for your worldview to be maintained. But the reality is, most of the "facts" surrounding 9/11 are either unknowable, conjecture, or depend upon a government and media with no credibility what-so-ever. Your mind apparently cannot deal in probabalistic reasoning, and therefore you must make assumptions that every piece of evidence surrounding 9/11 must be accepted and labeled as "true" or "false", "correct" or "incorrect". It's this mental impairment which leads you to make such ridiculous, all encompassing statements that you're famous for, and it's why you have zero credibility with me.
 
The problem with you, Roberts, is that you repeat ad nauseum about how the debunkers are "right" about everything, and the truthers are "wrong" about everything.
I repeat "ad nauseum," and will do so again because people like you do have great trouble grasping the concept, that rationalists rely on evidence to support their claims and truthers do not.

Think I'm wrong? Then name a few significant claims that the 9/11 "truth" movement gets right.

Shouldn't take you more than a minute. I await your reply, as do media outlets worldwide who would be eager to report this important news.
 
... , and the truthers are "wrong" about everything. ...
This would be your only true statement, if only you had made it.

Your total knowledge on the truth movement equals their total evidence on 9/11. Add them together take the square root, you have zero.

Not a single thing from 9/11 truth is true. And you are unable to produce a substantive rebuttal.
 
Please point out what I've gotten wrong. If you cannot, you'll need to rethink your position. You may want to familiarize yourself with my "version of the facts" – the evidence-based version – by reviewing the information in the pages linked above.

Truthers have discredited themselves by being the world's most incompetent and/or dishonest "investigators." You can't do worse than getting everything wrong.

Please bear this in mind: evidence and facts do not change depending on if you are "convinced" by them. Reality will never adjust itself to your misconceptions.

To point out what you've gotten wrong would require me to care enough about what you have written so as to spend time reading it. Your dishonest and hyperbolic manner of labeling and attacking truthers coupled with your absolute certainty that everything you present is true reveals that you're here to preach, not debate. You're a tour guide with an axe to grind, an assembler and distributor of propaganda. You're an expert on nothing other than New York trivia. Indeed, evidence and facts don't change. It's just a question of what does the evidence really represent, and whose misconceptions are the "facts" subject to.

Stop the tour, I want a refund.
 
Think I'm wrong? Then name a few significant claims that the 9/11 "truth" movement gets right.

The fact that you would ask this question indicates a total lack of reading comprehension in light of what I just wrote. You just don't get it. 9/11 is a mystery, not a science experiment. You're not an authority on what's correct or incorrect with respect to this mystery, nor is anyone else. You're just preaching a religion.
 
Spoken like a true devotee of 'the truth'

Spoken as if Mark Roberts is the arbiter of everything that's true. I only have a finite amount of time left on this earth. With regard to researching 9/11, I can either spend that time reading people who have a pretense of objectivity and who are experts, or Mark Roberts. I think the choice is pretty clear.
 
The fact that you would ask this question indicates a total lack of reading comprehension in light of what I just wrote. You just don't get it. 9/11 is a mystery, not a science experiment. You're not an authority on what's correct or incorrect with respect to this mystery, nor is anyone else. You're just preaching a religion.

What mysteries are there exactly? Care to enumerate a few?

Do you also claim that eg. the collapses of the buildings are not possible to explain by science (and thus the given explanations must be wrong)?
 
9/11 truth is a religion, not a science experiment

Spoken as if Mark Roberts is the arbiter of everything that's true.
Surely in your next post you will be listing everything he gets wrong?
I only have a finite amount of time left on this earth. With regard to researching 9/11, I can either spend that time reading people who have a pretense of objectivity and who are experts, or Mark Roberts. I think the choice is pretty clear.

and your wasting your times here because???? your paragraph above clearly illustrates your aversion to facts and details Mark had alluded to in the audio when confronting the religious movement at ground zero with his 9/11 binder.
 
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Rodriguez being buddy buddy with the likes of The American Free Press has cost me the last, small smidgen of respect I had for him.
 
I think the choice is pretty clear.

Indeed, your statement makes something very clear about you.

You will read and believe anything which confirms your preconceptions and validates your paranoid view of the world, and anything which disturbs you is to be ignored.

You WANT there to be a conspiracy. What personal need that serves for you..... well, we can all speculate about that.
 
No, you're wrong. It's a fallacy to say that anything from AFP is false because the owner is a racist. Claims must be evaluated on their own merit. People who support factual claims made by racists are not racists. Liars and bigots can sometimes tell the truth.

But, Tippit, this is not the claim. AFP et al got things wrong. The question of motivation only enters into the picture in order to explain possibly WHY they got things wrong. It's pretty clear to everyone but ostrich-like truthers that AFP and other antisemitic sources had motivation to lie, dissemble and generally fail to tell the truth.

First, the error.
Second, the explanation for the error
 
The fact that you would ask this question indicates a total lack of reading comprehension in light of what I just wrote. You just don't get it. 9/11 is a mystery, not a science experiment. You're not an authority on what's correct or incorrect with respect to this mystery, nor is anyone else. You're just preaching a religion.

9/11 is a mystery?
That's news to me.

In reality the story is told through the video evidence of the hijackers, the phone calls from loved ones, the recovered DNA, the admissions from Binalshibh, bin Laden and KSM, the Martyrdom videos, evidence from the passenger manifests, etc, etc.

It all paints a very clear picture of what happened that day.
And more importantly: who was responsible.

What, exactly, then, is the mystery?
 

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