Truthers...what is your best piece of evidence ?

[MarekM]

The list of WTC, Pentagon and Shanksville eyewitnesses who contradict the official story.

Why do you feel so comfortable relying on eyewitness testimony?

I found this portion of a BBC article interesting - maybe you haven't seen it yet.

In one famous study, Dutch researchers questioned people about a 1992 accident in which a cargo plane had crashed into a block of flats near Schiphol Airport.

Ten months later, they conducted a survey asking if people remembered seeing the TV film of the plane hitting the building. More than half of the respondents said they had. A later study found that the proportion had gone up to two-thirds.

The problem is, there is no TV film of the accident. Asking the question had itself apparently changed people's memories.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7457653.stm

 

[Quad4_72]

Redibis. Info on your "Column 79" theory please.

In another thread, Redibis claimed that Column 79 in WTC7 is the twoof movement's best piece of evidence.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4067219#post4067219
Myself and a few others asked him numerous times to give us his reasoning behind his theory of "Column 79". He avoided these questions like the plague. So here is a thread just for Ibis, to give us an in depth explanation for his theory of Column 79 in WTC7 being the "Truth" movements single best piece of evidence. Please provide calculations, sources, and relevant evidence for all claims presented. This thread is not for speculation.

This is not meant to be a "Call out" thread, but rather one for RedIbis to present us with his theory so we can critique it.

 

[TC329]

Why do you feel so comfortable relying on eyewitness testimony?

well i think its been proven beyond all shadow of a doubt that the bush administration has been the most lying deceitful corrupt administration in the history of the united states.

these people [eyewitnesses] saw and heard what they saw and heard where they say they saw and heard it. no one has proven a single one of them to be habitual liars.

then add in the 9/11 commissioners stating they were set up to fail and that they could have "hung" over a hundred people for 9/11 and they didn't get "everything" right and it's only a "first draft of history" tends to add to the credibility of the eyewitnesses who contradict the bush administrations fable.

 

[PhantomWolf]

TC, I have to ask this. How you explain all the eyewittnesses that all put Flight 77 on or about I-395, further SOUTH than the offical flight path.

 

[beachnut]

well wally didn't really witness anything but i do believe he matched the human remains the fbi brought him to the dna samples the fbi supplied him and matched those to the flight manifest the fbi supplied him all undocumented of course.

i also find his description of the impact to be more consistent with the physical evidence and in direct contradiction to the official fairy tale.

Wrong again. Miller debunked all you have. It was funny you did not understand your own video interview debunked all your ideas on Flight 93. Parts of plane and passengers in the crater buried to 50 feet. The whole interview was debunking your false ideas. It was great, I thought you had changed. But then you failed to understand anything he said in respect to your failed ideas.

He killed your fantasy, now you are ranting about bush and other junk because you have no evidence on 9/11!
Now your CIT p4t experts are posting NoC paths of 50 to 60 Gs along with Balsamo not being able to apply math and come up with rational numbers, after he finally uses an equation for the first time.

The point for this thread; all your evidence does not exist but in your head. And you can't fix that.

 

[Minadin]

Calling a column "79" also isn't standard nomenclature for the building industry, so references to exactly which column he's talking about would be helpful.

 

[TC329]

TC, I have to ask this. How you explain all the eyewittnesses that all put Flight 77 on or about I-395, further SOUTH than the offical flight path.

such as who?

i can pull out over a dozen names and the interviews showing witnesses saw the plane further NORTH of the official flight path.

 

[HENTAI DOUKYUSEI JP]

well i think its been proven beyond all shadow of a doubt that the bush administration has been the most lying deceitful corrupt administration in the history of the united states.

But thanks to the NWO he will finish his second term in office!

these people [eyewitnesses] saw and heard what they saw and heard where they say they saw and heard it. no one has proven a single one of them to be habitual liars.

Then why aren't they in your group of loons?

then add in the 9/11 commissioners stating they were set up to fail and that they could have "hung" over a hundred people for 9/11 and they didn't get "everything" right and it's only a "first draft of history" tends to add to the credibility of the eyewitnesses who contradict the bush administrations fable.

So you post here to bring Bush to court and to start that new investigation rolling? very good! let me know when it begins!

 

[pomeroo]

WTC 7 Column 79

And what was your best "evidence" before you grasped this latest straw, the straw you never dreamed of until NIST published its report?

Given that column 79 is no evidence at all for your fantasy, can you suggest something else?

 

[pomeroo]

The list of WTC, Pentagon and Shanksville eyewitnesses who contradict the official story.

Again, I believe American citizens over the Saddam has ties to Al Qaeda and has a WMD aresenal and mushroom cloud mushroom cloud mushroom cloud we're not torturing anybody because there are no secret cia european prisons and pat rambo tillman and jessica lynch and oh al qaeda al qaeda al qaeda oooga booga WMD crew.

You agree, then, that the conflicting stories told by survivors of the Titanic disaster prove that the ship didn't sink, right?

On the off chance that you don't agree, what is the significance of discrepancies in the accounts of eyewitnesses who all claim to have observed the same event?

Your second paragraph is, of course, gibberish.

 

[pomeroo]

such as who?

i can pull out over a dozen names and the interviews showing witnesses saw the plane further NORTH of the official flight path.

There are many more witnesses for a different flight path, although none of this matters, as all of your witnesses saw Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

 

[DC]

no mather what you answer, no mather how honest you are, they will all jump over you, pathetic

what a kindergarten

 

[beachnut]

... i can pull out over a dozen names and the interviews showing witnesses saw the plane further NORTH of the official flight path.

Faded memories after 6 years. There is not one viable NoC flight path. Zero

There were zero NoC witnesses in 2001, and now after 6 years you have impossible flight paths.

You use Boger as an NoC, he saw 77 hit the Pentagon.

You have Middleton, his story is correct but he is standing in the wrong position in the Cemetery when he is interviewed. How do you guys mess this up so bad? Middleton saw 77 in a right bank come down near Columbia Pike you guys messed up where he was on 9/11. You failed to do your homework.

So you ignore the real evidence and find faded memories and make up stories.

Paik does not support a NoC!

And you present NoC flight paths that are all false. You can't even do the math to see they are impossible. Why?

You can use Balsamo's new found math equations to see the one with over 57 Gs. Now that is one fancy wing breaking impossible turn. Seems like these guys forgot something after 6 years.

On of the CIT/p4t paths takes over 88.3 degrees of bank, the plane is on it's side at over 33.7 Gs. impossible


The worse path for Gs, greater than 89 degrees, and 57 Gs. impossible


There is an 85 degrees of bank, and 11 G, wings fall off path! impossible


If you take Paik's path and try to connect it to Middleton's path, it take two turns left, then right of 89 degree of bank and 63 Gs. Someone at ATS tried to tell me that was impossible, as if I was saying it was possible. So I have to add for the flying impaired, like me, the paths are all impossible, some are impossible for reasons CIT does not know yet...

I was told because CIT has all these NoC path witnesses, there is something to it. After he said holograms and planted lamppost to solve the lamppost issue! Doubt he will guess the something is, CIT is not good at investigation.

Boger and Middleton both saw 77 impact the Pentagon. Why did CIT cut out Middleton's impact revelation? Because they cut it since he was standing in the wrong place when the interview him, they had to cut his tore into the building part. Why does p4t and CIT make up lies and quote mine interviews. It is what they do best. At the interview CIT/p4t are either dumb and say he can't see the Pentagon impact point from the interview location , or too lazy to ask Middleton where he really was.

Is it fraud or just stupidity to not correct Middleton and find where he really was. Hint, he is on the exact road he was on 9/11 but a different area. It takes two second to figure out where. But poor CIT, due to fraud or ignorance can't or won't figure it out.

Carter point south Lyte Trip keeps saying on the North side. Liar Lyte…

Then another witness, Prather, saw the lampposts hit! LOL I can't believe this is in their NoC video! He saw the poles before 77 went by, then they were down. So CIT will make up more lies!

 

[Baylor]

Practically the entire "Official" 9/11 report was false. It has been thoroughly disproved.

Also, anyone who watches WTC Building Number 7 fall to the ground at free fall speed and NOT think it was intentionally demolished is absolutely delusional. Wow!

Man, you guys who believe these towers simply fell as the result of planes and fire are completely off the hook insane. You probably believe Osama bin Laden orchestrated it too.

Watching a building fall and thinking is must be a government conspiracy is delusional. And you're a dying breed. The "best" conspiracies, the ones that have survived to 2008, are just a sexed-up LIHOP version. You got the hijackers, just throw in a controlled demolition here and there. But no "pods" no fake phone calls, no remote controlled military jet hoping to get passed off as a commercial airliner. The "hijackers still alive" twoofer is sooooo 2005.

 

[PhantomWolf]

such as who?

i can pull out over a dozen names and the interviews showing witnesses saw the plane further NORTH of the official flight path.

At least Dawn Vignola, Dave Winslow, Michael Tinyk, Steve Patterson, Mitch Mitchell and Barbara Ensor all put the plane on or just off the edge of I-395.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Best evidence for inside job or best evidence that we aren't being told the truth (or only parts of the truth)?

For the former, I think the body of evidence supporting the official version is the best evidence (Commission Report, NIST WTC7 in particular).

You're saying that the body of evidence supporting the understanding that al-Qaeda carried out the 9/11 attacks is the best evidence that al-Qaeda didn't carry out the attacks? Would you please rephrase that in a form that makes sense? Like, for example, why a large body of evidence in favour of one theory necessarily also supports a second, completely contradictory, theory?

As for an inside job I'd say the demolition of WTC7 is the best evidence because of the agencies it housed. I doubt any Saudi terrorists could set up CD without being detected.

That's evading the question, because the "demolition of WTC7" is itself a theory that requires justification. What is your best piece of evidence that WTC7 was demolished?

Dave

ETA: I just realised as I hit the Post button that your second sentence makes a little more sense if the word "former" is replaced by the word "latter". Is that what you meant? If so, then I think it's undeniable that we aren't being told all the truth, for the simple reason that nobody ever is; if nothing else, it would take too long. If that's all you mean by "we aren't being told the truth", this is a trivial objection.

 

[chillzero]

You haven't even bothered to answer any of my questions. It's quite simple actually. I have a theory, which is premised on Column 79. Do you think I need to produce this piece of evidence to support my theory?

Just answer yes or no.

Red,
I'm not going to argue semantics with you on this, and I'm not going to ask you to produce the actual column for me.

Can you please tell me your theory as to why column 79 is the best evidence for a CT?

 

[Baylor]

You haven't even bothered to answer any of my questions. It's quite simple actually. I have a theory, which is premised on Column 79. Do you think I need to produce this piece of evidence to support my theory?

Just answer yes or no.

You're tapping dancing around your own bizarre multi-hypotheses. From what I can tell, you're saying that column 79 was severed by a "cutter charge" (or even better, a thermite "cutter charge") Well, at least it's a start. Column 79 was where many of the fires were concentrated. Could the "cutter charge" (explosives, det cor, blasting cap) survive such conditions? What's melting point of RDX? Your Column 79 "theory" rests on the answer.

 

[gumboot]

Why do so many Conspiracy Theorists confuse "hypothesis" and "theory"?

 

[T.A.M.]

Practically the entire "Official" 9/11 report was false. It has been thoroughly disproved.

Also, anyone who watches WTC Building Number 7 fall to the ground at free fall speed and NOT think it was intentionally demolished is absolutely delusional. Wow!

Man, you guys who believe these towers simply fell as the result of planes and fire are completely off the hook insane. You probably believe Osama bin Laden orchestrated it too.

1. You are factually incorrect on ALL OF THE ABOVE.
2. Your post is of such ridiculous insanity, that I know discussing it with you will be absolutely pointless, so welcome to ignore.

TAM