Psychic Samurai applies for MDC...apparently...

[xinit]

I'm not concerned with the popularity contest here. If you look at the DragonCon brochure you'll see a class offered how to "Not Be So Nerdy" especially for the Closed Minded Skeptics

What does this have to do with your claim?

 

[Jeff Wagg]

Jeff
Do you still want me to sign the agreement that I am using no Magical trickery. You've avoided my other questions, perhaps you'll answer this one?

To my knowledge, I have answered every one of your questions. If I missed one, my apologies; please ask it again.

To answer your question about signing the agreement, yes, that will be part of the protocol.

 

[xinit]

Let's make it even easier to avoid conventional gaffs. Let's place a sealed, wrapped MiniDV tape on the table. If the 'entity' can manifest enough to create electrical or magnetic impulses that would be detected by a tape recorder or digital recorder, then it should be able to modify the sealed tape without issue.

 

[Azrael 5]

There is certainly no proof of any contact being made at Devil's chair as AFAIK police restrict access to the site other than Halloween indeed I say "fubar" as TP had never visited prior to June this year and by his own admittance was chased away,so why he thinks it will all happen at Halloween is a mystery.Other than "I read it in a book" he has no proof.

Maybe he can clarify when states what his claim is.

 

[jimtron]

The Professor said:

"I have had GREAT success making contact at the Devil's Chair."

...
GzuzKryzt said:

How did you make contact, what did that contact constitute of, what does "great success" mean and what controls did you use? Were there any witnesses?

Why haven't you proposed to use that protocol for the preliminary test?

Yes, excellent questions. Dave, if you answer these questions about your past success, perhaps this will help us understand what your claim is and how controls can be put into place. Tell us more about the contact you made before, and how it was paranormal.

 

[Myriad]

Note that if the recording devices have microphones, then any method of producing audible sound will also suffice to cause sounds to be recorded. If the sound sounds a lot like a man yelling through a megaphone 500 feet away, does the fact that the megaphoner cannot be seen or identified make it an "unexplainable by science" paranormal event? How about if the sound doesn't sound like anything recognizable, but still comes from a megaphone 500 feet away?

I think there's a good reason why few magic effects are marketed for making electronic devices record sounds. When a tiny chip in a greeting card can record a voice or play a whole song vocals and all, even the most naive audiences today are unlikely to be impressed by an electronic device doing something that electronic devices are known to be able to do. (Indeed, some of us spend a lot of time trying to prevent our computers from doing strange, unexplainable, but decidedly non-paranormal things on a regular basis.)

Thus, using new, unopened, independently purchased devices would be one necessary safeguard. An opaque, sound-resistant, e-m-resistant ("faraday cage") enclosure is also necessary to rule out vibrational and electromagnetic influences. But I think the real missing ingredient here is an objective assessment of whether or not any sounds recorded are causally related to the summoning spell cast by the claimant.

For that I suggest a series of ten trials, each preceded by the either the invocation* or a suitable counter-invocation (asking any paranormal entities to bugger off or at least shut up for a few minutes), selected in random sequence at test time. Each time period to be recorded on a separate tape. Claimant is then given a period of time to listen to the tapes and determine which ones followed invocations and which ones followed counter-invocations. Getting all ten correct constitutes success.

Respectfully,
Myriad

*Note that it takes about 3.5 minutes to recite the invocation in a normal conversational cadence. Reciting it with suitable dramatic effect could easily take twice that. Even The Professor's proposed protocol, that would only leave the paranormal entities 13 minutes to get a word in edgewise; repeating it five or ten times would constitute cruel and unusual treatment for all concerned. Hopefully a more concise invocation could be agreed to. (Doesn't "Here I am; I'm great; Show up!" pretty much cover it? Suggested counter-invocation: "Don't mind me; I'm nothing special; Take a hike.")

 

[Biscuit]

I stopped posting in this thread around the 2nd or 3rd page when the professor was just beginning to dodge questions but now I shall use my own invocation

O patience, awake!
I now place my faith in the Power of patience that I AM.
I AM PATIENT.

Hope that works.

Lets try and clarify a few things.

Will your faraday cage be large enough to encompass the entire Devil's chair?

TP are you planing on getting into the super duper faraday cage for this test?

Will you be in there alone?

Have you already started building it?

Seeing as how I can find no claims that anyone other than the Devil can be reached at the devils chair are you willing to state that you will contact the devil? If not than what makes you think you can contact anything else at that particular location?

 

[Gr8wight]

Let's make it even easier to avoid conventional gaffs. Let's place a sealed, wrapped MiniDV tape on the table. If the 'entity' can manifest enough to create electrical or magnetic impulses that would be detected by a tape recorder or digital recorder, then it should be able to modify the sealed tape without issue.

These kinds of suggestions are counter-productive, in that The Professor has not stated that his "entites" are able to do this. That is why the most important rule of the challenge is that the applicant must state clearly and consisely exactly what his paranormal ability is. How would you feel if you spent a year studying for a chemistry test, and when you attended the final exam, it was all about Shakespeare?

 

[jimtron]

(Indeed, some of us spend a lot of time trying to prevent our computers from doing strange, unexplainable, but decidedly non-paranormal things on a regular basis.)

Good point. I often hear strange sounds emanating from my TV or alarm clock. Considering that my apartment is bombarded by signals including radio, TV, cell phones, wireless Internet, etc, it's sure not surprising. And when two or more electronic devices are in close proximity, one can cause audible and/or visual interference. Seeing as Dave proposes many electronic devices to be on hand, it sure sounds like any voices or images appearing ostensibly without a source would be quite scientifically explainable.

Dave, why are you holding yourself back? I would like to see you proceed. Why not follow the rules carefully and go through with this?

 

[RoboTimbo]

Well if the JREF and the admittedly Biased Jeff Wagg

The Professor, don't you see that YOU are the one who is biased? Funny how that works in an adversarial relationship.

who denies all the claims

No claim as of yet. By the way, what is your claimed paranormal ability?

refuses to see the obvious

I think your problem is EVERYONE HERE sees the obvious. Much to your chagrin.

refuses to agree with anything

As mentioned many times before, it's got to suck for you posting on a critical thinking forum rather than a credulous one.

Protecting the million is the sole purpose here.

Outing charlatans seems to be only secondary?

The Claim I've made is NOT SCIENTIFICALLY EXPLAINABLE.

Again, you deliberately ignore the many posters who have pointed out that your "claim" is easily scientifically explainable.


Only two days before shenanigans.

 

[deverett]

Please point out the EXACT problem with the claim. Do you want to hear more audible voices? If you need the voices to be distinct please let me know. If 8 out of 10 agree on what the voices say that is not a judgement it is an agreement. It is accuracy. A percentage.
Honestly, I can't see how a malfunctioning device in a super faraday cage could produce understandable voices? How would it?
There are also computer programs that would remove all human judgement. Do you recommend one of these?
This is how you can help.
Please answer these.
I in no way think you are not bias and I'm sure that your opinionated view will blind your judgment but please prove me wrong!

You seem to be hung up on your method too much.

EVP assumes a spirit world, that is the real teat. You are going to contact the spirit world. For the test to be self evident, information should be received that can't be known any other way. For example: A sentence sealed in a security vault is read by a spirit and spoken onto the tape. The tape is played, any spoken sentences are agreed upon and then the sealed sentence is checked against them. Either it matches or it doesn't.

The tape unit is not paranormal, the spirit world would be.

Dave Everett

 

[puppypundit]

Myriad's post #786 is made of awesome.

The Professor's new protocol is made of feedback noise.

 

[Drs_Res]

I also see other problems that are not mentioned here.

How many other people will be present, and what other electronic devices will be in the area?

Will all of the "media" he plans to have on hand at his "extravaganza" (The Professor's own word at the Magic Cafe) be willing to be searched and have their equipment checked by other people?
Who will check their equipment?
Will the media have microwave or other transmission equipment there?
What about spectators? Is TP going to have a crowd there? Would everyone coming to see this be willing to be searched?

There are quite a few other problems I can think of as well, but I'll stop here.

 

[The Professor]

This is obviously the least of the protocol problems at this point, and I think there are more clever ways of projecting something onto the recording equipment, but let's also not forget the old switch-a-roo. The instruments should be examined without any possibility of someone swapping tapes or adding something after the test is over but before they're played back.

I will NOT touch the tapes!

 

[The Professor]

I get it... I am so SLOW! All the JREF and Forum members have to do is play hide and seek! What claim? I don't see one, do you Mr. Randi ... No? Me neither. Claim? What claim? Was there a claim of some sort?
Paranormal ... Please prove it's paranormal before the test begins, since we believe nothing is paranormal then it can't be paranormal.
Claim? What Claim?
And your Million Dollars remains safe.
Must be part of that "How not to be a geek" class at DragonCon.

 

[The Professor]

Note that if the recording devices have microphones, then any method of producing audible sound will also suffice to cause sounds to be recorded. If the sound sounds a lot like a man yelling through a megaphone 500 feet away, does the fact that the megaphoner cannot be seen or identified make it an "unexplainable by science" paranormal event? How about if the sound doesn't sound like anything recognizable, but still comes from a megaphone 500 feet away?

I think there's a good reason why few magic effects are marketed for making electronic devices record sounds. When a tiny chip in a greeting card can record a voice or play a whole song vocals and all, even the most naive audiences today are unlikely to be impressed by an electronic device doing something that electronic devices are known to be able to do. (Indeed, some of us spend a lot of time trying to prevent our computers from doing strange, unexplainable, but decidedly non-paranormal things on a regular basis.)

Thus, using new, unopened, independently purchased devices would be one necessary safeguard. An opaque, sound-resistant, e-m-resistant ("faraday cage") enclosure is also necessary to rule out vibrational and electromagnetic influences. But I think the real missing ingredient here is an objective assessment of whether or not any sounds recorded are causally related to the summoning spell cast by the claimant.

For that I suggest a series of ten trials, each preceded by the either the invocation* or a suitable counter-invocation (asking any paranormal entities to bugger off or at least shut up for a few minutes), selected in random sequence at test time. Each time period to be recorded on a separate tape. Claimant is then given a period of time to listen to the tapes and determine which ones followed invocations and which ones followed counter-invocations. Getting all ten correct constitutes success.

Respectfully,
Myriad

*Note that it takes about 3.5 minutes to recite the invocation in a normal conversational cadence. Reciting it with suitable dramatic effect could easily take twice that. Even The Professor's proposed protocol, that would only leave the paranormal entities 13 minutes to get a word in edgewise; repeating it five or ten times would constitute cruel and unusual treatment for all concerned. Hopefully a more concise invocation could be agreed to. (Doesn't "Here I am; I'm great; Show up!" pretty much cover it? Suggested counter-invocation: "Don't mind me; I'm nothing special; Take a hike.")

I agree with the independently purchased equipment.
The Faraday cage is soundproof as Mr. Callahan has noted. Filled with acoustical padding. Megaphones won't work.

A little about INVOCATIONS, 3.5 minutes is not uncommon. It is actually Short! It is the KEY, the Catalyst, if you will, that starts the Paranormal process.
The equipment should be tested in a neutral place. Not in the graveyard and Not after any Invocation, to show it truly blocks out all possibilities of deception under Normal conditions.
The Place, Time and Invocation are all vital to the Paranormal Event!

 

[fromdownunder]

I note that earlier in the thread TP seemed quite happy to ask questions to the "entity' which were unknown to him before the test, and got all happy and gushy over this potential inclusion as part of the protocol.

One of the issues (or assumptions - it's hard to tell because the applicant is not being all that clear at the moment) on this thread appears to be that the challenger is going to be the one asking questions, presumably selected by himself.

So would an acceptable amendment to any potential protocol be that the questions should be designed by a person completely independant from both the Challenger and JREF, and handed to The Professor one at a time, each in a sealed envelope on the night of the challenge? The Professor then opens the envelope, asks the question, and everyone sees what happens.

Would that not eliminate any opportunity for pre recorded answers to be used? Or is the applicant insisting that the only acceptable questions are those which he himself has previously devised?

That's a great idea! And even to show how fair I can be. I will be willing to ask the same questions that Randi wanted to use when debunking a recent Medium. They are secret questions that I couldn't know. That should remove any doubt! I will use question designed by Randi himself! (Although I do want to ask their name, even if I am seeking Houdini himself)

(emphasis mine)


I must admit, much to my disappointment that he has now eliminated this possibility completely from his potential application.

So Professor, I really need to ask why something you appeared quite delighted by only a week or so ago was not included in your new non-protocol, and in fact you do not appear to have included anything about answers to questions in your revised non-protocol at all, only words about an incantation, and some sort of undefined noises being "recorded".

Norm

 

[The Professor]

Unfortunately, this link only seems suitable for German-speaking readers. Hey TP, this originated also on RTL.

It refers to the possible misunderstanding of lyrics. As in Jimi Hendrix' "Purple Haze": "[...]Excuse me why I kiss this guy. [...]"



As one can see, ar least two meanings could be attributed to said statement. Which would make it not self-evident.

Given The Professor's five languages stipulation, the results could be interpretable in a variety of ways. I'm not saying that they would, only that they could. Imagine a panel of people familiar with "Finnegan's Wake"...



"[...]Benzol forte, forte, forte, Dir nur 'reinzieh'n[...]"

You have obviously not read the new improved claim in conformity with the proposed rules. The recordings on the tape and video can be any languages at all. The mere fact that "Something" appears where "Nothing" was before is Not Scientifically Explainable. therefore Paranormal.

 

[Jeff Wagg]

I get it... I am so SLOW! All the JREF and Forum members have to do is play hide and seek! What claim? I don't see one, do you Mr. Randi ... No? Me neither. Claim? What claim? Was there a claim of some sort?
Paranormal ... Please prove it's paranormal before the test begins, since we believe nothing is paranormal then it can't be paranormal.
Claim? What Claim?
And your Million Dollars remains safe.
Must be part of that "How not to be a geek" class at DragonCon.

I don't understand.. have you actually made your claim somewhere?

 

[Jeff Wagg]

You have obviously not read the new improved claim in conformity with the proposed rules. The recordings on the tape and video can be any languages at all. The mere fact that "Something" appears where "Nothing" was before is Not Scientifically Explainable. therefore Paranormal.

Please address my comments on your new protocol, which is not a claim. And can you explain why you won't tell us your claim?