Psychic Samurai applies for MDC...apparently...

[Coveredinbeeees]

Now that I am puting forth my feelings and ideas and trying to make headway you are attacking!

Guess that means that you weren't trying to make headway before?

Now, as you (I hope) sit back and say "Hey, that's not what I meant at all!" consider your recent treatment of RemieV.

On with the Challenge
Jimtron ... if all the equipment was put in a Faraday cage that problem would be solved. So I will agree to that.
1) All equipment in a Faraday Cage
2) The equipment that is in the Faraday cage can be examined or even Purchased by someone other than myself as others have suggested. (And YES, I Know that I am paying for this )
3) I will sit on the Devil's Chair on 10/31/ 2008. I think we all agree on that.
4) The audio and video equipment will be turned on and recording.
5) I will speak
6) After 27 minutes the recording equipment will be shut off.
7) If Audio or Video evidence is on the recordings that Can Not Be Scientifically Explained then the Test will be regarded as a success

This is what we have been looking for, this is a beginning. It needs considerable work as has been mentioned before.

I have some questions. Many of them have already been asked. If they continue to be asked, you may infer that your have not yet answered them clearly.

1. Please describe the faraday cage you will use and provide evidence that it will block all normal signals which could interfere with the recording equipment.

2. Detail the recording equipment which will be used, this would be a necessary part of point 1 above.

3. Are the date and location an absolutely essential part of your protocol. If so, why?

5. And what else will be observed or may be expected to occur during this phase?

6. Is a 27 minute duration an absolutely essential part of your protocol. If so, why?

7. Define "scientifically explained." Who will determine if any part of the audio or video recording is unable to be scientifically explained and how will they do so without judgement. In what way will any part of the recording be self evidently paranormal?

There are several questions which will need to be answered within your protocol which are not addressed at all.

a). Will the voices you intend to produce be audible or will they simply appear upon the recording media, detectable only upon playback? If the former, what is the purpose of the faraday cage?

b). How will you ensure that sounds are not produced by a a hypersonic sound projecting device?

c). How will you ensure that sounds are not produced by yourself via ventriloquism? Or rather, how will you ensure that it is self evident that sounds have not been produced by you using ventriloquism.

d). How will you differentiate between paranormal sounds and those produced by people or natural events in the area in a self evident manner.

e). All of the above questions may be rephrased to deal with the parts of the video recordings which you consider "can not be scientifically explained."

Finally, please detail your earlier attempts to produce such paranormal sounds / visions. In particular any experiment that you have performed which led you to believe that your could produce such. In detailing the experiment be sure to include your methodology with regards to controls and ruling out natural sights and sounds as well as delusion.

You are, of course, under no obligation to me to answer any of the above, however, providing such answers would help me and others to aid you in development of your protocol which would, in turn, bring you closer to your claim being accepted.

 

[The Professor]

The ball is completely in your court.

I am ready and it seems some friends have arrived to help in the sporting event.

I do need your official ruling on what paranormal is.
Is it an Event that is Not Scientifically Explainable?
Yes or no?

Also before you run off

Why the five week moratorium between the date I will take the test and the deadline set by the JREF MDC?

I think it (the one week stipulation) is the shortest time ever demanded. In fact I think it is the very first time you've ever discriminated in this way.
I could be wrong and please advise me on those that had less than a week

Why the wasted five weeks between 9/26 and 10/31?

I also asked for a test on 10/31/2009 if you would please read the challenge application. Why are you just sweeping that under the rug?

Thanks and I'm looking forward to taking the challenge!
Dave

 

[Coveredinbeeees]

Also it is my understanding that these voices have not been associated with any sort of entity, ghost, dead or living person.

I believe Mr Koenig has made such an association.

David Koenig. will contact a Paranormal Entity and communicate with it in an intelligent and understandable manner.

As an aside I would really be interested in who here can really put voices on a borrowed recorder of any type placed in a Faraday cage by a third party.
Sounds pretty impressive to me.

If I borrow a recorder and talk into it while it is running in a faraday cage, will you be impressed to find that it has recorded my voice? If not, I suspect you may have asked the wrong question above.

I think possibly placing the recorder into a box filled with acoustic foam and then sealed into the cage would be a reasonable way to go.
Especially if the reorder is of a type to be chosen by the JREF at random.

Are you certain that the voices Mr Koenig intends to produce are not audible? If they are, then covering the recorder intended to record them with acoustic foam would be a rather cruel impediment to his ability.

If you believe that he can make a recorder which has been encased in acoustic foam and placed in a faraday cage record a voice, then testing that ability would be far easier than his current protocol ideas.

Could you point me to where he has claimed that he can make a recorder which has been encased in acoustic foam and placed in a faraday cage record a voice? If not, why are you attempting to paint him into such a corner? Do you not want him to succeed?

 

[Piggy]

I also asked for a test on 10/31/2009 if you would please read the challenge application. Why are you just sweeping that under the rug?

Please stop slandering JREF staff. And please read their posts.

If you'd like that to be Oct 31st, 2009, we can consider that.

 

[Azrael 5]

I am ready and it seems some friends have arrived to help in the sporting event.

I do need your official ruling on what paranormal is.
Is it an Event that is Not Scientifically Explainable?
Yes or no?

You making the claim you tell us.You have done this before you claim so you should know,stop trying to wriggle with defintions about what is classed as paranormal.And what used to be blahblah.

Also before you run off

Why the five week moratorium between the date I will take the test and the deadline set by the JREF MDC?

I think it (the one week stipulation) is the shortest time ever demanded. In fact I think it is the very first time you've ever discriminated in this way.
I could be wrong and please advise me on those that had less than a week

Why the wasted five weeks between 9/26 and 10/31?

Seeing as you have taken 4 weeks to do something simple as work on a protocol,Id want as much time as possible for rest of Admin personally.Why the one week? See answer above.You have messed about long enough time to put up or shut up.

I also asked for a test on 10/31/2009 if you would please read the challenge application. Why are you just sweeping that under the rug?

Thanks and I'm looking forward to taking the challenge!
Dave

If you can do what you claim then you can do it any date and place IMO,seeing as you have no proof anything will happen on hallloween this year or at said location(despite requests) why the insistence for it? Also there is no proof anywhere that anything happens at Devil's chair.Or at Halloween.
If you can show evidence to the contrary I'd be ecstatic.

Magic tricks magic tricks.Smoke and mirrors.Stuff and nonsense.

 

[not daSkeptic]

I do need your official ruling on what paranormal is.
Is it an Event that is Not Scientifically Explainable?
Yes or no?

During the recent bigfoot incident, Penn Jillette was asked what it would take to convince him the creature was real. He responded, "Bigfoot! That's what it would take. Show me bigfoot!"

So, what's paranormal? You're making the claim. You tell us. Define your terms. Show us what you claim. Stop whining about stupid stuff and just do it already.

 

[jimtron]

Jim Callahan said:

Also it is my understanding that these voices have not been associated with any sort of entity, ghost, dead or living person.

But I would say that it is safe to believe it is a manifestation of some sort of entity since it must be generated by something.

As an aside I would really be interested in who here can really put voices on a borrowed recorder of any type placed in a Faraday cage by a third party.
Sounds pretty impressive to me.

Dave has been asked many, many, many times to describe the paranormal entity or voice or whatever. If Dave really believes in this, let's hear more about it. As has been pointed out, if there is nothing supernatural or paranormal, there's no challenge. Also, Jeff pointed out that there are known methods for secretly putting a voice on a recorder, even in a Faraday cage. The challenge isn't a puzzle, it's about demonstrating evidence of the paranormal.

Since Dave has said he wants to take the challenge, I assume he has at least a little knowledge about the voice. Why won't he answer questions about it? Is it the voice of a ghost, or something else? Dave, how do you know the voice is paranormal?

Jim and Dave: Please be sure you have carefully read the rules, and please look at past protocol discussions in this subforum. There have been protocols approved by the JREF. For the millionth time, you need a testable demonstration of a paranormal event. If that's not possible with the voice, maybe there's something more straightforward, like remote viewing.

Theh Professor said:

I do need your official ruling on what paranormal is.

You tell us what is paranormal about your claim, and we, and/or an official JREF person will tell you if it's appropriate for the challenge (also the rules and FAQ explain what's acceptable and not acceptable). Dave, how do you know the voice is paranormal? How will it be self-evidently demonstrated?

I think it (the one week stipulation) is the shortest time ever demanded.

Maybe you should read the rules and FAQ and past discussions about coming up with protocols, and apply when you're ready. You seem to have a problem with the simple request of describing what your claim is. The JREF put other applicants on hold because you have the Oct. 31 deadline. You've spent 14 pages playing games, so it only seems fair they give others a chance.

But you could just spell out your testable claim right now, or in 7 days. Why do you need more time than that?

 

[Seanrmr]

Hi Jeff,



But I would say that it is safe to believe it is a manifestation of some sort of entity since it must be generated by something.
Jim

Yes but the question is is the generation a paranormal one. We have not seen any evidence that this is the case yet.

Hi Jeff,

As an aside I would really be interested in who here can really put voices on a borrowed recorder of any type placed in a Faraday cage by a third party.
Sounds pretty impressive to me.

Jim

Doesn't sound impressive to me but I'm an electronic engineer so it's more a case of I know how to do it.(and no I wont tell you how jim I don't need to give you ideas on how to do stuff as you say on the magic cafe don't ruin peoples secrets.)

I really don't see this test getting anywhere unless there is some way the paranormal entities can say something special that will rule out the trickery and actually make them paranormal.

 

[Thabiguy]

The Professor,

I urge you to answer the excellent set of questions asked in this post by Coveredinbeeees.

Not just because of us - we are quite secondary here - but because answering these questions will significantly clarify matters regarding your claim and will allow you and Jeff Wagg to move ahead.

If you are serious about taking the Challenge, answering these questions is probably the single most important step you can take towards having your claim accepted.

 

[The Professor]

Now that I have returned Jeff's Ball, and am awaiting a response (And YES, I DID call Jeff to speak with him in person at the JREF before 5 PM but I was told by Shaun that Jeff was not there ) I will ask a few more questions of the rest of you.

On this forum there are some genuine open minded skeptics. You guys are the reason I'm here.

Unfortunately, there are also some very closed minded and disruptive skeptics.

It is pretty easy to tell who's who.

I am a minority here. The smart ones know a bit about civility and cooperation. They understand that this forum is built on the statement at the top of each page.

A PLACE TO DISCUSS SKEPTICISM, CRITICAL THINKING, THE PARANORMAL AND SCIENCE IN A FRIENDLY AND LIVELY WAY.

The others are the type of people who treat minorities in bad ways. They use name calling and bickering as tools but in the end it just reveals their prejudice.

I hope to keep the conversation in a fair and focussed direction and I hope the mods and the rest of you will help.

Question: Has the JREF ever placed any applicants on these strict time constraints before? Yes or No.

It is a simple Yes or No question.

I am fully aware of my claim and you need to be fully aware of the "Second" paragraph of my initial claim which spans until 10/31/2009. Not something that is over in a few months.

Thanks
Dave

 

[The Professor]

It appears that my computer will not recognize the email that Jeff provided.
I will post it here. It's 8:15 PM on Friday.

Thank you Jeff for stepping in at this late date. I appreciate it.
I am looking forward to a fair and successful test!
I tried to call you at the JREF before closing but they said that you were gone. Shaun was the nice fellow who answered the phone.
I am emailing you as instructed.
I was wondering about a recent Youtube video in which you stated that you knew who David Koenig was. Have we met? Have you seen a performance?
I don't recall meeting you so perhaps you just associated me with Jim Callahan for some reason, since that was what you said.
I've only met Jim four times and I guess someone could assume we are friends but that is not always the case. As I've said we've only met a few times.
I don't want your feelings about Mr. Callahan to spill over into this procedure. That isn't a problem is it?
You seemed a little steamed on the video and that may be understandable but I don't want my situation to be diminished by it, if you understand.
I hope you will reconsider loosening the time constraints that you've placed on the procedure. It may have made the situation impossible to accomplish.
In order to expedite the clarification, what do you consider to be the very first thing that I need to do to move along with this claim?
I did ask a few question of you on the forum also if you'd care to answer those.
I'll attempt to comply as much as possible and put this in high gear, but please remember I'm a newlywed, and I want to stay married.
Thanks for your time and I await your response
Dave

 

[PingOfPong]

Question for those in the know-how would one get a signal through a Faraday Cage?
Question for The Professor-Who determines where said cage will be placed? If it is JREF, do you mind if you are not notified until the time ofthe test?

A friend of mine once had a problem with Nextel. He wanted to get a refund on his contract and he told me that the only way to do it was to have several calls dropped. You see, Nextel garuntees your calls will always get through. I thought about it for a moment and told him to put the phone in a microwave oven (but not turn it on). My thinking was that a microwave oven acts as a Faraday cage. It must because it has to block the micro waves from leaking out and cooking your grey matter. I was wrong, the calls got through just fine. Those Nextels are some powerful little communicators.

 

[Gr8wight]

As I sat reading the last two or three pages of this thread, I kept getting angrier and angrier. It is clear to me that things are going exactly as David and Jim planned from the beginning. When Jeff said to David, "the ball is in your court," he had no idea the irony he had writ. The ball has been in David's court from his very first post. The ball has never left David's court. He is playing a game of his own. The JREF is not a teammate, nor an opponent, but a spectator, and the Million Dollar Challenge is not the goal, merely a piece of the equipment.

David Koenig is using the JREF, and all of the forumites who have posted in this thread, for his own private purposes. He will never be tested. He has never had any intention of being tested. This is all just a charade leading to David's public announcement that the JREF refused to test him. He will make that annoucement, exactly as he originally planned, at The Devil's Chair on Halloween night, before his adoring public (which is how he will refer to the several dozen random spiritualists who came out to the cemetery that evening, with no prior knowledge that David would be there), and the media (the one reporter from the local paper he could get to follow him out there) . By early November first, the Internets will be rife with dozens of new blog posts claiming the Million Dollar Challenge is a scam (some of them may even be written by people other than David Koenig or Jim Callaghan). And David and Jim will be sitting back, sipping champagne, and laughing at us.

 

[Doubt]

Yes but the question is is the generation a paranormal one. We have not seen any evidence that this is the case yet.



Doesn't sound impressive to me but I'm an electronic engineer so it's more a case of I know how to do it.(and no I wont tell you how jim I don't need to give you ideas on how to do stuff as you say on the magic cafe don't ruin peoples secrets.)

I really don't see this test getting anywhere unless there is some way the paranormal entities can say something special that will rule out the trickery and actually make them paranormal.

Actually, I have heard Randi discuss something he saw at MIT that would be an excellent way of doing it. The method could be done so that nobody could hear it and it would penetrate a Faraday cage. And there is a good chance that nobody would hear it. unless they were next to the recorder.
However, I don't think the equipment is commercially available.

 

[Piggy]

Dave, how do you know the voice is paranormal? How will it be self-evidently demonstrated?

This is the crux of it right here.

The applicant claims that he has sat on the Devil's Chair and heard voices.

He has been told that this does not qualify as a self-evidently paranormal event because many non-paranormal explanations are possible -- someone playing a prank, a radio in a nearby house or car, auditory hallucinations or misinterpretations of other sounds, etc.

Furthermore, the applicant claims not to know anything about the source of the voices, and to be utterly unable to say if they belong to a ghost or anything paranormal at all.

And yet he proposes this demonstration -- which he does not claim to have ever done before -- in which he says the voices will appear on tape without being audible -- which, it stands to reason, he has no reason to believe they will do given what he claims he has done.

He insists on performing this action on Halloween despite, according to his claims, having heard the voices on other days.

The only logical explanation for this set of circumstances is that the applicant does not, in fact, want to test an ability which he knows, through experience, that he has and which is clearly paranormal, but rather the applicant wishes to set up a performance which has nothing to do with the paranormal.

 

[Loss Leader]

Just wondered at the continual use of RemieV's full name,middle included Professor? Is it some form of intimidation you are trying? As I see no relevance for it.

I, for one, had no idea Remie even had a name.

 

[Jeff Wagg]

I am ready and it seems some friends have arrived to help in the sporting event.

I do need your official ruling on what paranormal is.
Is it an Event that is Not Scientifically Explainable?
Yes or no?

That is not a yes or no question. What do you mean by "scientifically"? For example, I can watch Lance Burton and have no explanation for how he might do a trick. Though I can't explain it, it's not "scientifically unexplainable." I know that Lance is a magician and he knows how to fool people. He does NOT know how to disobey the laws of physics.

What we mean by the phrase in the FAQ is that you must demonstrate an ability that shows something unknown to science. Magic tricks don't count. Fooling us doesn't count. Defying a law of physics would definitely count. Talking to the dead would also count. Seeing through opaque objects (without the use of technology) certainly counts as well.

Also before you run off

Why the five week moratorium between the date I will take the test and the deadline set by the JREF MDC?

I think it (the one week stipulation) is the shortest time ever demanded. In fact I think it is the very first time you've ever discriminated in this way.
I could be wrong and please advise me on those that had less than a week

Why the wasted five weeks between 9/26 and 10/31?

It will take us at least a month to prepare volunteers, etc. The time limit is yours, not ours. I have given time limits in the past when challenges were stalled, but that's not the case here. That said, it certainly WILL be the case if we can't make any forward progress.

I also asked for a test on 10/31/2009 if you would please read the challenge application. Why are you just sweeping that under the rug?

I'm only concerned about the preliminary challenge at this point.

Thanks and I'm looking forward to taking the challenge!
Dave

I'm looking forward to you taking it.

 

[Jeff Wagg]

<snip>This is all just a charade leading to David's public announcement that the JREF refused to test him. <snip>And David and Jim will be sitting back, sipping champagne, and laughing at us.

It wouldn't suprise me at all. The possibility of this isn't going to change how I operate though. The record will be here for all who care to look.

 

[Jeff Wagg]

As an aside I would really be interested in who here can really put voices on a borrowed recorder of any type placed in a Faraday cage by a third party.
Sounds pretty impressive to me.

Couldn't your friend Raymond Hill do it?

 

[Pixel42]

Can I make a suggestion?

It's clear that there is simply not enough time to agree a test protocol and gather the necessary equipment by 31st October 2008. It's also clear that the main impediment to agreeing a protocol is that no-one has a clear idea of precisely what the paranormal phnemonenon in question is, and how it will manifest itself.

Why not just use the demonstration on 31st October to gather this information? JREF representatives (and any forum members who are within a reasonable distance and knowledgable about test protocols) attend the demonstration, along with The Professor's writer friend(s) who are assisting him with his claim. They are given the opportunity to inspect the location and any equipment before and after, observe the demonstration itself at close quarters, and take a copy of the resulting recording(s) away to examine at their leisure.

It should then be easy to determine if the observed phenomenon (a) qualifies as paranormal and (b) is testable, within the terms of the challenge. Assuming the answer to both questions is yes, we then have a year to agree a detailed test protocol and buy or make any necessary equipment such as faraday cages. Then on 31st October 2009 The Professor simply has to repeat his demonstration, this time under controlled conditions, and meet the agreed success criteria.