Psychic Samurai applies for MDC...apparently...

[Personal Grudge]

I am indeed happy that Alison Michelle Smith has stepped down, however I will not let Jeff Wagg dictate or suggest what I should do as a challenge. This is MY challenge and it doesn't include trick magicians envelopes like the ones Criss Angel uses.
Also a one week stipulation for protocol negotiations is Unacceptable. ( I have a recording of Randi saying he gave one guy four years. You, Jeff, were there too) Are there other examples of this kind of discrimination on the JREF? It is just another way for the JREF to avoid testing Anyone! And thereby Never risking the Million Dollars.
Jeff,You claim to have magicians that can penetrated a Faraday Cage of my making ... Prove it!
I will not be put off by false science.
I want to take the test!

A false shuffle does not change a stacked deck.
Jeff you say you want to work with me on this in an earnest manner?
I will take you up on that offer!

You speak of the Claim and the Protocol in the same post.
To be in accordance with your rules, right now we should be discussing the Claim and NOT the protocol. Correct?

I must say that it is quite unfair to accuse the JREF of discrimination or of being unfair by suggesting that a workable protocol needs to be presented within the week. You yourself stated that the date for the test should be on October 31st, 2008. How could they let you negotiate over the course of four years if the suggested test is supposed to occur in less than two months?

I am rather uninformed to the nature of a Faraday Cage, so I will not comment about that.

And while I do not speak for the JREF, I would say that the claim and the protocol are somewhat intertwined. The test of "recording a paranormal voice" is not currently objectively testable, and the JREF does not appear to see any means that it could be objectively tested. However, if you do in fact know how this could be objectively tested, then presenting an acceptable protocol in detail may turn the issue around.

I think Jeff Wagg presented a very viable example of what actually is a testable claim, without trying to suggest what you can or cannot do. If this type of test could be performed, then things may move forward. If this is not the type of test that can be performed, then I'm sure the JREF is more than interested to hear from you concerning other alternatives.

 

[Jeff Wagg]

I am indeed happy that Alison Michelle Smith has stepped down, however I will not let Jeff Wagg dictate or suggest what I should do as a challenge. This is MY challenge and it doesn't include trick magicians envelopes like the ones Criss Angel uses.

On this, we are in complete agreement. I am only dictating what the JREF will find acceptable. You have been unable to state a claim or protocol, and I offered one suggestion. Please provide another if you find it unacceptable. Also, the JREF has never used trick envelopes, and that's plainly obvious to anyone who observes a challenge. I doubt that Criss would bother either.

Also a one week stipulation for protocol negotiations is Unacceptable. ( I have a recording of Randi saying he gave one guy four years. You, Jeff, were there too) Are there other examples of this kind of discrimination on the JREF? It is just another way for the JREF to avoid testing Anyone! And thereby Never risking the Million Dollars.

You are the one who set the date of Oct 31st. If you'd like that to be Oct 31st, 2009, we can consider that.

Jeff,You claim to have magicians that can penetrated a Faraday Cage of my making ... Prove it!

I have no need to.

I will not be put off by false science.

I don't know what that means.

I want to take the test!

Then please do as I've asked.

A false shuffle does not change a stacked deck.

It doesn't change a non-stacked deck either. Your point is?

Jeff you say you want to work with me on this in an earnest manner?
I will take you up on that offer!

I'd like to see you do that.

You speak of the Claim and the Protocol in the same post.
To be in accordance with your rules, right now we should be discussing the Claim and NOT the protocol. Correct?

You have never fully established what your claimed ability is. As we're at an impasse on protocol negotiations, we need to revisit the claim and get it clarified so that we might come up with a way to develop a conclusive test.

Also, please know that I will need your claim via e-mail. It's fine if it is posted to the forum too. I have all the materials you have sent RemieV.

 

[chillzero]

I am indeed happy that Alison Michelle Smith has stepped down, however I will not let Jeff Wagg dictate or suggest what I should do as a challenge. This is MY challenge and it doesn't include trick magicians envelopes like the ones Criss Angel uses.
Also a one week stipulation for protocol negotiations is Unacceptable. ( I have a recording of Randi saying he gave one guy four years. You, Jeff, were there too) Are there other examples of this kind of discrimination on the JREF? It is just another way for the JREF to avoid testing Anyone! And thereby Never risking the Million Dollars.
Jeff,You claim to have magicians that can penetrated a Faraday Cage of my making ... Prove it!
I will not be put off by false science.
I want to take the test!

A false shuffle does not change a stacked deck.
Jeff you say you want to work with me on this in an earnest manner?
I will take you up on that offer!

You speak of the Claim and the Protocol in the same post.
To be in accordance with your rules, right now we should be discussing the Claim and NOT the protocol. Correct?

You can't expect the JREF to give you four years to define your protocol, when you gave them a few months' notice. That would be a paranormal event!

 

[yairhol]

Also a one week stipulation for protocol negotiations is Unacceptable. ( I have a recording of Randi saying he gave one guy four years. You, Jeff, were there too) Are there other examples of this kind of discrimination on the JREF? It is just another way for the JREF to avoid testing Anyone! And thereby Never risking the Million Dollars.

Weren't you the one who dictated that the 31st of October 2008 is the date at which you will make the contact with the entity?
You want 4 years? maybe they can give you 4 years but will that be of any help to you?

 

[Moochie]

I am indeed happy that Alison Michelle Smith has stepped down, however I will not let Jeff Wagg dictate or suggest what I should do as a challenge. This is MY challenge and it doesn't include trick magicians envelopes like the ones Criss Angel uses.
Also a one week stipulation for protocol negotiations is Unacceptable. ( I have a recording of Randi saying he gave one guy four years. You, Jeff, were there too) Are there other examples of this kind of discrimination on the JREF? It is just another way for the JREF to avoid testing Anyone! And thereby Never risking the Million Dollars.
Jeff,You claim to have magicians that can penetrated a Faraday Cage of my making ... Prove it!
I will not be put off by false science.
I want to take the test!

A false shuffle does not change a stacked deck.
Jeff you say you want to work with me on this in an earnest manner?
I will take you up on that offer!

You speak of the Claim and the Protocol in the same post.
To be in accordance with your rules, right now we should be discussing the Claim and NOT the protocol. Correct?

Ah, at last, we can plainly see where this is heading.


M.

 

[Azrael 5]

Just wondered at the continual use of RemieV's full name,middle included Professor? Is it some form of intimidation you are trying? As I see no relevance for it.

 

[chran]

Ah, at last, we can plainly see where this is heading.


M.

Yes, it's rather refreshing

 

[jimtron]

Dave:

You've spent 14 pages not addressing the most important issue: stating what your paranormal claim is, and how it's testable. Why do you need more than a week for this? If you need more time, why not withdraw the application for now and re-apply when you're ready.

Why won't you say what the paranormal voice belongs to (ghost, or what)? Why have you evaded the many, many, many, many requests for a testable claim? Why was your 7 point protocol from the previous page devoid of anything like a paranormal claim whatsoever?

Would you please answer, honestly: do you really, sincerely believe that this voice or whatever is paranormal? IOW, not something that is a result of technology, or a trick--something that is part of the natural world?

After all the advice you've gotten on this very long thread, I don't see why you can't put a protocol together in a week. We'll help you, if you start getting more specific. If not, I'm pretty sure you can reapply when you're ready.

Because you keep avoiding any details about how the voice is paranormal, it would appear that you are looking for an excuse not to take the challenge. You are keeping yourself from the MDC--not the other way around.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Ah, at last, we can plainly see where this is heading.


M.

I thought it was plain from the beginning.

 

[Lrrr]

I don't believe the cut-off date is discriminatory. YOU have imposed the Oct. 31 deadline for the test. At what date would it be too late to finalize the details? Oct.30? I'm assuming there are other things that have to be done after the claim and protocol are approved (contracts to be signed, stuff like that). That takes time too.

To me, your faux indignation is merely a smoke screen. If you can't complete your claim and protocol negotiations, would you be willing to re-schedule? As has been pointed out many times in this thread, it is YOU that has dragged this out for four weeks now. Are you willing to bend a little to get the test done? If it has to be Oct. 31, could it be next year?

 

[The Professor]

On this, we are in complete agreement. I am only dictating what the JREF will find acceptable. You have been unable to state a claim or protocol, and I offered one suggestion. Please provide another if you find it unacceptable. Also, the JREF has never used trick envelopes, and that's plainly obvious to anyone who observes a challenge. I doubt that Criss would bother either.You are the one who set the date of Oct 31st. If you'd like that to be Oct 31st, 2009, we can consider that.I have no need to.I don't know what that means.Then please do as I've asked. It doesn't change a non-stacked deck either. Your point is?I'd like to see you do that.You have never fully established what your claimed ability is. As we're at an impasse on protocol negotiations, we need to revisit the claim and get it clarified so that we might come up with a way to develop a conclusive test.

Also, please know that I will need your claim via e-mail. It's fine if it is posted to the forum too. I have all the materials you have sent RemieV.

Your post made me smile! Perhaps there IS Hope!

 

[Piggy]

I am indeed happy that Alison Michelle Smith has stepped down, however I will not let Jeff Wagg dictate or suggest what I should do as a challenge. This is MY challenge and it doesn't include trick magicians envelopes like the ones Criss Angel uses.
Also a one week stipulation for protocol negotiations is Unacceptable. ( I have a recording of Randi saying he gave one guy four years. You, Jeff, were there too) Are there other examples of this kind of discrimination on the JREF? It is just another way for the JREF to avoid testing Anyone! And thereby Never risking the Million Dollars.
Jeff,You claim to have magicians that can penetrated a Faraday Cage of my making ... Prove it!
I will not be put off by false science.
I want to take the test!

A false shuffle does not change a stacked deck.
Jeff you say you want to work with me on this in an earnest manner?
I will take you up on that offer!

You speak of the Claim and the Protocol in the same post.
To be in accordance with your rules, right now we should be discussing the Claim and NOT the protocol. Correct?

No, it is not YOUR challenge. It is the JREF's challenge and the rules are clear.

YOU have specified the October 31 date, not JREF, and they are fully within their rights to ask for a complete application by the date Jeff mentioned in order to allow enough time to come to an agreement on protocol and get everything in order.

Your posts have descended into childish rants, I'm afraid.

As for your demand that Jeff show a magician who has worked with a Faraday cage of your making... first of all, that's not what he said... secondly, you haven't submitted any designs for any such device... and thirdly, why do you think JREF would allow you to use a Faraday cage that you rigged up?

As I said before, there can be no co-operation if you refuse to abide by any rules and instead want JREF to simply allow you to perform a stunt on their dime.

 

[Jeff Wagg]

Your post made me smile! Perhaps there IS Hope!

The ball is completely in your court.

 

[Czarcasm]

The ball is completely in your court.

[The Matrix]There is no ball.[/The Matrix]

 

[Jim Callahan]

Hi Jeff,

I cannot see were Dave at any point said the voice had some sort of supernatural ability.
Such as seeing the contents of a sealed envelope.

Possibly I am wrong on this and Dave can clarify.
It is understood you were only making a suggestion.

Also it is my understanding that these voices have not been associated with any sort of entity, ghost, dead or living person.

But I would say that it is safe to believe it is a manifestation of some sort of entity since it must be generated by something.

As an aside I would really be interested in who here can really put voices on a borrowed recorder of any type placed in a Faraday cage by a third party.
Sounds pretty impressive to me.

I think possibly placing the recorder into a box filled with acoustic foam and then sealed into the cage would be a reasonable way to go.
Especially if the reorder is of a type to be chosen by the JREF at random.

Also they would provide the box and foam to rule out a gaff.

This is quite interesting to watch.

Best Wishes,

Jim

 

[Ixion]

Great idea!!!!!
I, have asked him to do just that. In addition there are several other Sci-Fi writers who are interested in this procedure.

Are you implying the writer is a Sci-Fi writer? You do know what the "Fi" stands for, correct? I hope your writer can help you submit before the 26th Sept. deadline. It would be a travesty if a writer can't crank out a few lines in a week.

 

[jmercer]

I think possibly placing the recorder into a box filled with acoustic foam and then sealed into the cage would be a reasonable way to go.

Line the box with several layers of copper sheeting, including the lid. Make sure there are absolutely no openings and that the copper on the lid overlaps past the spot where the box and top meet, to ensure no signals get through that way. Place the acoustic foam in that. Please the recorder in the foam, close and lock the box, and you're all set.

 

[remirol]

I cannot see were Dave at any point said the voice had some sort of supernatural ability.

If there is nothing supernatural, then there is no claim, and TheProfessor is not eligible for the Challenge.

Also it is my understanding that these voices have not been associated with any sort of entity, ghost, dead or living person.

If there is nothing supernatural, then there is no claim, and TheProfessor is not eligible for the Challenge.

What does TheProfessor claim will be generating the voice?

 

[e-sabbath]

I think that if he wants to wait four years and then perform any event on 10/31/2008, it will count as paranormal.

 

[Mojo]

Line the box with several layers of copper sheeting, including the lid. Make sure there are absolutely no openings and that the copper on the lid overlaps past the spot where the box and top meet, to ensure no signals get through that way. Place the acoustic foam in that. Please the recorder in the foam, close and lock the box, and you're all set.

...for some kind of conjuring trick.