Why does FAA/Norad animation show NoC flightpath?

TheLoneBedouin said:
Pay attention JREFlings- I said "caber-like" rotation. Can you guess why this is impossible?


There is no vertical force vector.
Click to expand...


You are wrong! You didn't read the information contained in the link that I provided, did you?

TheGrunion said:
The pole is going to hit the ground anyway due to gravity, which is a vertical force.

In addition the pole will be subjected to a significant moment force that will cause it to rotate.

This explains moment forces very well. Unfortunately, I suspect that its a bit over your comprehension level. There is a couple of sentences in section 4.4 that you might be able to understand though.

[URL="http://www.engin.brown.edu/courses/en3/notes/Statics/moments/moments.htm"]http://www.engin.brown.edu/courses/en3/notes/Statics/moments/moments.htm[/URL]
Click to expand...

You are actually wrong twice! You don't need a vertical force vector because of the moment force. However, there is a vertical force vector acting on the pole. It is called gravity.
 
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TheLoneBedouin said:
Pay attention JREFlings- I said "caber-like" rotation. Can you guess why this is impossible?
Click to expand...

TLB, Dave is correct about this. Take a broom stick and balance it on one end and then whack the other end near the top with a baseball bat. You will be able to see the "caber-like" motion for yourself.

Dave, in the US (at least in the 70's) most high school students didn't get this far in physics.

/Greg
 
TheLoneBedouin said:
Pay attention JREFlings- I said "caber-like" rotation. Can you guess why this is impossible?


There is no vertical force vector.
Click to expand...
I'm guessing you think because you say so. This is about the most pathetic thing I've seen since Lyte Bryte's stupid diagram.

:dl::dl::dl:

Yeah. An MS Paint diagram is definitely superior to any other argument one could put forth.
 
R.Mackey said:
And what time stamp is applied? Who generates the time stamp?

This has no effect on delays upstream.
Click to expand...

The time stamp and associated parameter data does not get any 'delay'
added to it..."upstream", "downstream", "midstream", or "dreamstream".

Since this has been explained to you literally dozens of times, I don't expect an acknowledgement from you at this stage, so instead, I reiterate: Losses of the last few seconds are common in FDRs. The events of AA 77 are not unusual in this respect, no matter how they happened.
Click to expand...

I don't expect you to pick up on this either since you've contradicted yourself
a dozen times.

First you say that FDR shouldn't stop recording if there is not impact.

Then you say the data stopped six seconds back.

I caught you on this.

Now you complain about delays, but there are no delays because of time
stamps.

NTSB states the impact time at :45

There is data written with time stamps at :45

There's no way in hell you're going to convince caveman Joe that the
clock is out of sync by six seconds. Maybe six milliseconds! LMAO...laughing
my donkey off.

R. Mackey, which theory do you want to push?

1. The stop record before impact

2. The six second clock sync issue

3. The NTSB impact time

4. Other...insert excuse here

Please, please, please look up Flash memory operation. Please don't make
me link you to how data is erased and how many bytes are erased per
block/page.

When you come back, make sure you have a theory that accounts for
all the info...otherwise you have 'holy holes'...'holies spamolies'...or "BS"
for lack of a better term.
 
Jonnyclueless said:
Slightly

According to the FDR and Turbo, the plane came to a complete stop and suspended in the air just above the Pentagon. In other words he uses the FDR to show that the plane did not reach the Pentagon. But the FDR does not show the plane flying over and beyond the Pentagon.

So therefore the only conclusion that can be reached using Turbo's argument is that the plane was suspended in the air near the Pentagon.We can rule out a fly over using Turbo's evidence which is the FDR and the eyewitness testimony. Since the FDR does not show a fly over and no witnesses report a fly-over, we can only conclude that the plain stopped in mid air.
Click to expand...

ORRRRRRRRRRRRRR....

Someone is messing with the data by truncating?

Hmmm...

DO you think the plane is still suspending over the Pentagon right now?

Quick, go and check for me!
 
GregoryUrich said:
Are you saying that the altitude went from 100 ft MSL to 40 ft MSL in the last 1-2 seconds? Even if the descent rate is 60 ft/sec, that's hardly a dive. Maybe you meant a gradual descent?
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Oh my. Climb, dive or level. So 100 MSL to 40 MSL at 2600 feet to you is a gradual decent? Funny stuff. Flying is not your field. You should study some.

There will usually be damage to plane hitting at 2600 feet per minute your gradual decent (dive), and you will fail your flight if you live to fly again.

Greg, you have to pick one. A climb, a dive, or level flight. 77 hit a VOT camera post, and then impacted the Pentagon in 1.33 second. 77 goes from 100 MSL to 40 MSL in 1.33 second, this is a dive of 2600 feet per minute, which is 3.5 times the decent (dive) rate of a landing plane as it approaches the runway. So our 77 dive into the Pentagon is 3.5 times more dive than approach to landing.

Accident report, with only 12 to 14 feet per second impact, oops, fire and damage! Are you really an engineer?
http://www.cad.gov.hk/reports/main1.pdf ... previous 750-800 feet per minute
(fpm). Although an attempt was made to flare the aircraft, the high rate of
descent was not arrested, resulting in an extremely hard impact with the
runway in a slightly right wing down attitude (less than 4º), prior to the normal
touchdown zone. The right mainwheels contacted the runway first, followed
by the underside of the right engine cowling. The right main landing gear
collapsed outward, causing damage to the right wing assembly, resulting in its
failure. As the right wing separated, spilled fuel was ignited and the aircraft
rolled inverted and came to rest upside-down alongside the runway facing in
the direction of the approach.
Click to expand...
Now imagine a 60 foot per second impact.
You slight decent comment is an uneducated effort, like "ample evidence"! The truth movement saw you coming!

You should join p4t, they lack knowledge in flying too, just like you. I am not an expert pilot, I am the expert pilot, after reheat, pinch, and a few thousands others. But the best pilots and best people I know died before their time; they were better than i.

Did you say 60 feet per second was a gradual decent? High rate is 12 to 15 feet per second. Turbofan is off by a factor of four sometimes; is this truth trait?

Did you study the lens stuff? You have confirmed what I knew the first day you showed up as a member of multiple truth groups, you talk first and find out later. Use some research first, or ask one of the pilots on these issues.

60 feet per second is gear breaking stuff, and compared to landing at .5 to 1 feet per second, 60 feet per second is a crash. Stop diving at the runway, you will not be a pilot! lol Pinch lands at higher rates, but he has extra strength.
 
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Turbofan said:
The time stamp and associated parameter data does not get any 'delay'
added to it..."upstream", "downstream", "midstream", or "dreamstream".



I don't expect you to pick up on this either since you've contradicted yourself
a dozen times.

First you say that FDR shouldn't stop recording if there is not impact.

Then you say the data stopped six seconds back.

I caught you on this.

Now you complain about delays, but there are no delays because of time
stamps.

NTSB states the impact time at :45

There is data written with time stamps at :45

There's no way in hell you're going to convince caveman Joe that the
clock is out of sync by six seconds. Maybe six milliseconds! LMAO...laughing
my donkey off.

R. Mackey, which theory do you want to push?

1. The stop record before impact

2. The six second clock sync issue

3. The NTSB impact time

4. Other...insert excuse here

Please, please, please look up Flash memory operation. Please don't make
me link you to how data is erased and how many bytes are erased per
block/page.

When you come back, make sure you have a theory that accounts for
all the info...otherwise you have 'holy holes'...'holies spamolies'...or "BS"
for lack of a better term.
Click to expand...

if you go back and re-read you will see where he did not contradict himself. You simply did not understand or bother to read his explanation. Yes he said it stopped 6 minuts prior, but he did not say there wasn't an impact and he did not imply that the impact had nothing to do with the data stopping 6 seconds prior. He explained in great detail of why this could happen and even cited that it has happened often in the past.
 
Turbofan said:
ORRRRRRRRRRRRRR....

Someone is messing with the data by truncating?

Hmmm...

DO you think the plane is still suspending over the Pentagon right now?

Quick, go and check for me!
Click to expand...

Your source is the FDR. The FDR does not show any evidence that it was truncated. So you're just using conjecture to assume that. We're talking about evidence here. And your witnesses do not support the plane flying over. There is no evidence of a fly over and everything contradicts a fly over so we can rule that out.

So if we'reruled out a ly over using YOUR evidence and claims, and you've ruled out the plane impacting the pentagon by ignoring 99% of the evidence, then we can only conclude that the plane stopped mid air.


Though I am amused at your implication that the people who manipulated the FDR (which you cannot back up) would use it as evidence of the plane crashing. I suppose they couldn't be bothered to simply make it show the plane hitting the building eh? This is the problem when your research involves making stuff up.
 
Turbofan said:
Now you complain about delays, but there are no delays because of time
stamps.

NTSB states the impact time at :45

There is data written with time stamps at :45

There's no way in hell you're going to convince caveman Joe that the
clock is out of sync by six seconds. Maybe six milliseconds! LMAO...laughing
my donkey off.

R. Mackey, which theory do you want to push?

1. The stop record before impact

2. The six second clock sync issue

3. The NTSB impact time

4. Other...insert excuse here

Please, please, please look up Flash memory operation. Please don't make
me link you to how data is erased and how many bytes are erased per
block/page.

When you come back, make sure you have a theory that accounts for
all the info...otherwise you have 'holy holes'...'holies spamolies'...or "BS"
for lack of a better term.
Click to expand...
13:37:46 last time stamp! Why did NTSB decode an extra second and the expert p4t decode is missing it?
The real problem, you never address, you have zero clue where 77 in last data point stored in the FDR! You can't tell anyone!
Where is 77 at 13:37:44?

Look were 77 is at 13:37:47 - the blue dot on the right! Darn, that is not the Pentagon! Why do you ignore facts to make up lies? You have to.
774datapath.jpg

Turbofan can not tell us; unable to tell, with all the p4t expert to tell us where 77 is at 13:37:44. Using his own numbers from the FDR, he has no clue where 77 is. zip
 
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Turbofan said:
The time stamp and associated parameter data does not get any 'delay'
added to it..."upstream", "downstream", "midstream", or "dreamstream".
Click to expand...

You didn't answer my question.

When is the timestamp applied? Is it an input to the FDR, or is it applied by the FDR?

Once you figure that one out, it should all be very simple.

Turbofan said:
I don't expect you to pick up on this either since you've contradicted yourself
a dozen times.

First you say that FDR shouldn't stop recording if there is not impact.

Then you say the data stopped six seconds back.

I caught you on this.
Click to expand...

No. You simply don't get it. Willfully, I hope.

When the aircraft crashes, the FDR stops working. And any data currently in the pipeline is lost. Furthermore, the crash itself can and probably will damage the data currently being written.

The crash therefore both stops recording and interferes with or corrupts the data six seconds or so back.

Again, there is no contradiction.

Turbofan said:
Now you complain about delays, but there are no delays because of time
stamps.
Click to expand...

There is no way to prevent loss of this data.

Turbofan said:
NTSB states the impact time at :45

There is data written with time stamps at :45
Click to expand...

The two are probably correlated. I suspect NTSB states impact at :45 because that's the last valid timestamp. But, again, as you yourself note, the FDR is showing the aircraft still in flight and still well above impact at :45. Therefore, the FDR proves impact did not occur at :45. Assuming the FDR clock is correctly calibrated, of course.

Turbofan said:
There's no way in hell you're going to convince caveman Joe that the
clock is out of sync by six seconds. Maybe six milliseconds! LMAO...laughing
my donkey off.
Click to expand...

There is no reason to suspect either the FDR or the NTSB impact time is accurate to +/- 6 seconds, let alone six milliseconds. You're handwaving, and I don't know "caveman Joe."

Turbofan said:
R. Mackey, which theory do you want to push?

1. The stop record before impact

2. The six second clock sync issue

3. The NTSB impact time

4. Other...insert excuse here

Please, please, please look up Flash memory operation. Please don't make
me link you to how data is erased and how many bytes are erased per
block/page.
Click to expand...

This, again, is nominal Flash operation. This does not describe behavior during a crash, during a broken write cycle, during disruption of power supplies and data lines. You are not even participating in the discussion at this point.

Turbofan said:
When you come back, make sure you have a theory that accounts for
all the info...otherwise you have 'holy holes'...'holies spamolies'...or "BS"
for lack of a better term.
Click to expand...

You not only don't understand what happened, you also don't understand what I'm saying. Furthermore, you have yet to provide your own explanation. Nice trifecta you've got there.
 
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The game is a blowout and ticking down to the final seconds and we still have the first string playing? Dammit Mackey, hit the showers!
 
SlightlyAbovePar said:
As said elsewhere, is not the entire 'issue' of a NOC flight path utterly moot? Unless, of course, you are suggesting the plane did not hit the building. I notice that here, and elsewhere, you deftly side-step this basic question. However, the question remains. Do you, or do you not, think the plane (FLT 77) hit the Pentagon, or not? If so, then who gives a rats butt about NOC/SOC/EOC/WOC? The darn plane ended it's flight in the building, correct? If not, then (as before) these ten questions are for you. No, they aren't for skeptics. If you're going to make assertions that challange the widely accepted narrative then you must be able to answer the implications of those assertions.

With that in mind, please answer these questions that are directly related to the existing body of accepted evidence. Once you (the royal you) can provide a plausible narrative to negate these questions, only then is it reasonable to entertain notions of a fly over. Hint: conspiracies, layered upon yet more conspiracies is not a cohesive narrative. It's unfounded speculation.

(1)What happened to flight 77?
If flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon, then where is it? Where is the plane – physically? Who disposed of the aircraft? Where was it disposed? How? We are talking about 110 tons of aircraft, engines, fuel, seats, trays, avionics, luggage, etc. Where are the eyewitnesses that saw the plane physically fly over the Pentagon? Where did it land after the fly over? Were the FAA radar operators “in on it” too? Where are the airport employees who saw the 110 ton airliner land, at the undisclosed location? Were they “in on it” too, or were they killed? If so, who killed them?

(2)What happened to the passengers and crew?
Where are the passengers? Were they all “in on it”? If not, who disposed of the passengers? Where were the disposed of? How have the disposers been keep quiet? Have the disposers been killed too? How have the disposers of the disposers been kept quiet? Where were the bodies taken/buried? How was this accomplished?

(3)How do you explain the phone calls from loved ones physically on the plane, to other loved ones?
Where the calls faked? From where? How were family members duped into thinking they were talking to their wife (for example) when in you’re claiming they were talking to a computer program? How do you reconcile that some of the phone calls went through cell phone towers very close to the so-called “official” flight path? How do you reconcile that some of the calls originated from the Airphones physically on the plane in question?

(4)How do you explain the wreckage found in the building?
If it was planted, how was it planted? Who planted it? When did they plant it? Where did they get spare aircraft parts? Where were these spare aircraft parts stored? How were they transported to the scene without anyone noticing? Were the parts in question placed beforehand? If so, how? How was this accomplished without anyone noticing?

(5)How do you account for the wreckage found on the lawn?
Were the parts found in the lawn placed beforehand ? If so, where are the witnesses talking about aircraft wreckage laying around on the lawn beforehand? Or, are “they” “in on it” too? Was the wreckage on the lawn placed after the event? If so, how were “they” able to accomplish this without anyone noticing? Or are the potential witnesses, after the event “in on it” too?

(6)How do you reconcile the impact location, as it relates to the evidence?
How were the perpetrators able to judge the exact location of impact, before the event? That is, how do you reconcile that the airplane debris in question is exactly where it should be?

(7)How do you reconcile the bodies of the passengers and crew being positively identified through DNA evidence collected from within the Pentagon?
Is the DNA evidence faked? If so, by whom? Is the lab that conducted the tests and certified it’s authenticity “in on it” too?

(8)How do you reconcile personal effects, positively identified by family members as belonging to their next of kin, found within the Pentagon?
Was this evidence placed beforehand? If so, by whom? If it was placed after the event why did nobody notice? Or, are the first responders (Pentagon employees) “in on it” too? How were personal effects taken from the victims (like a drivers license) without their knowledge beforehand and planted?

(9)How do you reconcile the bodies of passengers found within the Pentagon, some still strapped into their seats?
Were the bodies placed beforehand? If so, how do you explain the bodies in question checking in at the counter at the originating airport? Were the ticketing agents “in on it” too? If the pilots were killed beforehand and then placed in the Pentagon (at some point), who flew the plane? If the bodies were placed after the event, how were the correct passengers and crew killed, then placed in the Pentagon without anyone knowing? Are the first responders, who found the first bodies, “in on it” too? Can you offer a time line that reconciles the correct passengers/crew checking in at the airport, being led off and executed and then their bodies being transported to the crash site?

(10)How do you explain the impact zone damage being completely in-line with a fast moving commercial airliner?
Was it a controlled demolition? If so, where are the blasting caps? Wiring? How was the area wired without anyone noticing? How long would this take? How would the employees who were killed at their desks not notice demolition experts wiring their office with demolitions and not complain, notice, or ask questions? Or, were the employees killed at their desk “in on it” too? If there were no employees at their desks, were the bodies planted before the event? If so, how? By whom? How have the planters been kept quiet? Were the planters killed too? By whom? Were the bodies planted after the event? If so, by whom? Where are the eyewitness reports of dead employees being brought in, after the fact? Or, were/are these potential witnesses “in on it” too?
Click to expand...

It is extremely unlikely you will get any answers to your questions (thruthers don't answer questions, they just ask them and demand that you answer them). With this in mind I have bumped your post.

There are two possible outcomes to your questions.

1. They will be ignored.
2. Standard truther response " that is why we need a new investigation , to answer your questions".

Must be great to be a truther, eh ?
 
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GregoryUrich said:
TLB, Dave is correct about this. Take a broom stick and balance it on one end and then whack the other end near the top with a baseball bat. You will be able to see the "caber-like" motion for yourself.

/Greg
Click to expand...
Are you saying that a cabar-throw and an object horizontally impacting a pole have no distingushing features?
 
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Wolrab said:
The game is a blowout and ticking down to the final seconds and we still have the first string playing? Dammit Mackey, hit the showers!
Click to expand...

It certainly does appear we've reached that point where the only people left in the Truth Movement are simply incapable of understanding the explanations...

Note I don't consider people like Gregory Urich in that list -- he does understand, and concordantly his opinions are quite different from folks like the "Pilots for Truth."
 
Turbofan said:
ORRRRRRRRRRRRRR....

Someone is messing with the data by truncating?

Hmmm...

DO you think the plane is still suspending over the Pentagon right now?

Quick, go and check for me!
Click to expand...
So where is flight 77 and all the passengers/crew?
 
The clock is pre FDAU, you should know the FDR is just a storage device.

All words are formed in the frame and clocked out of the FDAU.

FDR data shows up to :45, therefore it was recorded and not 'lost'

How many times do I need to go over this?

See, you didn't come back with all of the info covered. Now you still
need to explain how the clock sync can be SIX SECONDS off! LMAO.

Oops, I mean... LOL

or whatever Internet laughing acronym you kids use.
 
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