Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[Correa Neto]

Well, now that bigfeet are known to lie down over roads to heat themselves or hide (!), its just a matter of time untill a specimen (or parts of it) is "collected"...

 

[LAL]

"In the beginning, studying the chimpanzees of Gombe was not easy for Jane. The animals fled from her in fear; it took months for her to get close to them. With determination, she searched the forest every day, deliberately trying not to get too close to the chimpanzees too soon. On many days Jane observed the chimpanzees through binoculars from a peak overlooking the forest. Gradually the chimpanzees became accustomed to her presence."

This is not at all the same as taking months to find them.

"JO: Do you think Sasquatch's existence will be verified sooner or later? Is there a chance we'll never know?

JM: I anticipate that it will. It is difficult if not impossible to prove that something does not exist. If sufficient funds and sustained effort are never directed at the question, it may languish unresolved indefinitely. Jane Goodall didn't catch her first glimpse of chimps for months, and they were a gregarious boisterous lot contained essentially in one valley. Yet, I am criticized by some for not collecting conclusive evidence of a relatively solitary reclusive far-ranging primate in a vast habitat on a given unfunded weekend excursion. Go figure."

http://www.normalpeoplelikeyou.com/article_assets/sasquatch.htm

If Jeff is wrong, take it up with him.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

This brings up an interesting point. Exactly why should Bigfooters give up their belief no matter how misguided or irrational? Assuming lightning did somehow strike the minds of every footer at once and all of a sudden there was no more belief in Bigfoot. Would that change the human condition in any meaningful way? Is there the possibility that there is an untapped genius among the ranks of the Bigfooters whose genius is being being laid to waist by Footery? Are there vast fortunes of treasure, mind, science and soul being funneled away from human betterment because of Footery?

For decades I labored under the misconception that somehow if an absoloute truth could be put in universal terms that the human condition would somehow blossom into the "potential" that the poets dream. It dawned on me one day that none of it mattered worth a fig. The Greek gods came and went, the Renaissance came and went, the so called son of god came and went, the war to end all wars came and went, the New Deal, The Fair Deal, JFK, LBJ, the moonshot, the transistor, the bloody internet put that in it too. And guess what? None of it has had a lasting or much of a material effect on the better angels of the human species. None of it! Not one molecule rubbed off!

So a couple of thousand middle aged folks need to change their belief system? For what? What is there to believe in? All of the great beliefs have been put on the table and none of it has mattered. But I'll tell you what. I'll throw in a little wisdom I picked up somewhere under a hot sun and parched landscape. The only thing that's worth having a belief in is the knowledge that we are beings on our way to our own deaths. Stack that up against Bigfoot belief or any of the other tripe we waste our beliefs in and see if it holds a serious candle to the the last lights out.

I nominated you for this one Crow ... It makes an interesting and poignant point...

 

[LAL]

And you live in western NC? I find that hard to believe. I don't even live in western NC, and I have seen more deer there than that. I used to deliver drugs to Henderson at least once a week, and it was not uncommon at all to see live deer or roadkill there, or in any other part of the state in between.

Do you mean Hendersonville? (There are a few sightings and a track event from near there).

Most of WNC is in national forest and park. The deer I saw (not counting the one in front of my house) were crossing a dirt road in or near a bear sanctuary on the Tennessee border It wouldn't have been possible to get up enough speed on that road to whack them.

Most of my driving is in town or on the Interstates. The dead one was on 40 where it cuts through the Pisgah.

Look at a map. Check the "roadedness" (I think I just made up a word) of the eastern and western parts of the states. Even if the deer population is about the same the opportunites to hit them aren't.

 

[SweatyYeti]

William Parcher wrote:

One way or another, Bigfooters need to find some way to deal with the fact that their belief is irrational and unreasonable.
Maybe you have done this and the result is that you get on Internet forums and talk to skeptics as if they are the ones with a problem.

Nobody really has a problem, William.....except for those who are troubled by what thoughts are going through other people's minds.

I've said, many times before....I don't care what you, or any other skeptics here, "believe", or think, about the likelihood of Bigfoot's existence.

A person's thoughts are nothing more than neurons firing inside their head......and personally speaking....it makes no difference to me in which 'order' those neurons inside of your head are firing.

Think whatever you like, William.


And as for myself, "dealing" with this alleged "irrational" belief in Bigfoot....I have no hesitation, or problem, thinking to myself..................very simply..................that Bigfoot may exist.


It's a painless thought.

This brings up an interesting point. Exactly why should Bigfooters give up their belief no matter how misguided or irrational? Assuming lightning did somehow strike the minds of every footer at once and all of a sudden there was no more belief in Bigfoot. Would that change the human condition in any meaningful way? Is there the possibility that there is an untapped genius among the ranks of the Bigfooters whose genius is being being laid to waist by Footery? Are there vast fortunes of treasure, mind, science and soul being funneled away from human betterment because of Footery?

So a couple of thousand middle aged folks need to change their belief system? For what? What is there to believe in? All of the great beliefs have been put on the table and none of it has mattered.

Well said, Crowlogic.

 

[EHocking]

"JO: Do you think Sasquatch's existence will be verified sooner or later? Is there a chance we'll never know?

JM: I anticipate that it will. It is difficult if not impossible to prove that something does not exist. If sufficient funds and sustained effort are never directed at the question, it may languish unresolved indefinitely. Jane Goodall didn't catch her first glimpse of chimps for months, and they were a gregarious boisterous lot contained essentially in one valley. Yet, I am criticized by some for not collecting conclusive evidence of a relatively solitary reclusive far-ranging primate in a vast habitat on a given unfunded weekend excursion. Go figure."

http://www.normalpeoplelikeyou.com/article_assets/sasquatch.htm

If Jeff is wrong, take it up with him.

So, you counter a quote directly from Jane Goodall's official homepage with anecdotal evidence from a proFooter?

Sort of proves the point I have been making in my past posts.

Repeating misquoted second/third/n-hand information because it backs your position and ignoring primary source information because it doesn't.

 

[LAL]

Again, not quite. Chimpanzees occasionally eat meat, just as many humans do (don't think devoloped countries before you riposte).

It's also recently been discovered that they spear small animals. They catch and eat monkeys and have a whole ritual about sharing. I didn't say meat is a major part of the diet. You might want to watch the spin yourself.

A large ape well equipped for catching larger game (by ambush hunting, e.g.) would be able to supply its caloric needs from protein, not just from vegetation. There's no lack of food in forests. Even the inner bark of trees is edible.

 

[LAL]

So, you counter a quote directly from Jane Goodall's official homepage with anecdotal evidence from a proFooter?

I gave my source. While I've read much of Jane's site, especially about the displays at waterfalls, I don't remember seeing that.

Boil me in oil.

Of course you know Jane is a "proFooter" herself.

 

[EHocking]

It's also recently been discovered that they spear small animals. They catch and eat monkeys and have a whole ritual about sharing. I didn't say meat is a major part of the diet. You might want to watch the spin yourself.

No spin, just being more precise. Your statement was,
"See the study on the teeth wear. It's most like that of chimpanzees. Chimpanzees eat meat."
I stated,
"Chimpanzees occasionally eat meat."
I then quoted Goodall on the subject (attributed as the discoverer of this fact).

Mine was a qualification of an inexact statement by you.
That and only that.

 

[EHocking]

I gave my source.

And that has a bearing on the accuracy of that source's statement, how?

I merely quoted Goodall (primary source) to point out the inaccuracy of your secondhand (at best) source.

While I've read much of Jane's site, especially about the displays at waterfalls, I don't remember seeing that.

You have now. Hopefully you'll quote Goodall on her experiences rather than 2nd hand anecdotes about her experiences from now on.

Boil me in oil.

That's just childish...

Of course you know Jane is a "proFooter" herself.

This does not counter the fact that her account is more accurate than the 2nd hand anecdote of her account you seem to wish to defend. In the same way that Isaac Newton's occultism doesn't negate his Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica.

 

[William Parcher]

This brings up an interesting point. Exactly why should Bigfooters give up their belief no matter how misguided or irrational?

I didn't call for Bigfooters to change their belief in Bigfoot. I said that they need to understand the irrationality of their belief. Goodall seems to understand this and yet maintains her belief (AFAIK). During her NPR interview with Ira Flatow she openly laughs at her own conviction. This is the very last part that is universally censored by Bigfooters who use her interview (recorded and transcripted) as an example of BF support by a famous person. You will find audio clips and the text of the interview, but they all leave out the last bit. She and Flatow actually laugh together at an unfinished statement made by her. It's quite obvious why she is laughing at herself. The Footers don't like that last part because it essentially summarizes her belief as being a romantic one. They would wish that her belief was based on her scientific intelligence. It isn't.

 

[Aepervius]

In case somebody is interrested , I put the whole thread and all post in a flat-file format, with associated keyword and poster. So for example if you type in "keyword=wallace" and "keyword=green" and "poster=lal" you get all post back where wallace and green are both mentionned by lal. I was bored so I made that program up. It is not 100% clean (and it don't use database), but i guess this week end or next I have it finished.

PS: I am trying to get the authorization of Darrat (or a mod), since I am not 100% sure if I may use the thread/post or not due to copyright issue.

 

[William Parcher]

However, just because there weren't any lead-in tracks doesn't mean it was a hoax. Patty could of walked in the stream, using her Ninja-Bigfoot skilz.

Or along the road where tracks wouldn't show.

But Gimlin told Green that he and Patterson had been driving on the roads at night looking for Bigfoot tracks. Why would they do that if the roads would not reveal BF tracks because of "hard pack"?

It may not make sense that her approach was concealed by a hard pack road. There was likely a margin of sand between the road and the flowing creek. Step off the road to cross the creek and you leave tracks in that margin.

The approach mystery could possibly be explained by her walking in the creek itself for some distance.

But there is another mystery for me. It comes from paying close attention to the P&G testimony of the moment of seeing Patty, her proximity to the creek at that moment, and the layout of the "Bluff Creek Patty theater". I've gone into this before. We should see her tracks climbing up the small creekside bank seen during the first few moments of the "full PGF". It's that area next to the upturned tree root mass that concealed her from them as the rode up to her. The sand bank in this spot appears to be totally undisturbed. Late last year, Gimlin told a crowd that Patty was 18" from the creek itself when they first spotted her.

Here again is the questionable scene showing no tracks of a huge Bigfoot clambering up the bank to get away from the Cowboy and Indian. The shadow of the concealing root mass can be seen on the left...

 

[William Parcher]

This CGI is supposed to show the initial moment of the encounter. But Gimlin says she was 18" from the creek at that moment. We can't see any tracks there in the filmed scene I attached above.

 

[darkwing]

Better qualified? Why, because he has a bigfoot hat?

RayG

Actually, Ray, I don't even wear a hat.

Better qualified? Probably am, because I've seen these big boys up close on a number of occassions, and one of the few people to ever see an entire clan together at one time as they crossed a field.

I also spend on average about 80 days and nights in the woods researching.

On a side note:
There is a trailcam picture from Oklahoma that is currently being reviewed and will be shown to Meldrum in Honobia in a few weeks, that shows a foot very similar to Patty's, be interesting to see what he thinks about it.

 

[Correa Neto]

Of course you know Jane is a "proFooter" herself.

That is (just like most bigfootery-related things) debatable, as William Parcher once pointed.

We have considered the points put forward by all involved and feel very strongly that this information is being added inappropriately, and is being placed here to further other peoples agenda, not to represent Jane Goodall’s work. Jane has not done any research on Bigfoot, it simply does not fit into her appropriate legacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Jane_Goodall

A tidbit of information ignored -or ommited- by many a footer.

Maybe they'll somehow blame skeptics on this too...

 

[Skeptical Greg]

...

On a side note:
There is a trailcam picture from Oklahoma that is currently being reviewed and will be shown to Meldrum in Honobia in a few weeks, that shows a foot very similar to Patty's, be interesting to see what he thinks about it.

A foot similar to Patty's ?
What picture of Patty's foot are you using ?

My foot looks similar to this:

Even more so when 80 feet away and out of focus..

Would you like a picture of my foot to take to Honobia ?

Could I possibly be related to Patty and not know it ?

 

[William Parcher]

Ok, didn't want to break any rules by trying to get around the rules, lol.

Here is the same picture, though not as blurry as the MQ version, and the caption says it was taken in East Texas:

book-of-thoth.com/portalsupport/coppermine/displayimage-topn-22-9.html

Here is another picture of a cougar stalking a black tail deer in the same location:

book-of-thoth.com/portalsupport/coppermine/displayimage-topn-22-10.html

This photo was also posted at an Arkansas trail cam site, and reported as taken in Oregon. Frankly, who knows where it was actually taken. But the deer part is key because there are no black tail deer in NC. So, wherever it was taken, it wasn't taken in NC.

When you first mentioned that the photo shown on Monster Quest was a hoax, and that you had a link, I thought it was going to be a link to a page about debunking this hoax. It isn't. There is nothing written here mentioning that the image was used as a hoax for the cable TV program.

Had you seen anything on the web that specifically was debunking the MQ photo? I tried Googling several different variations of search words related to "Monster Quest cougar hoax" and found nothing.

Is it really possible that you are the first and only one who has pointed out this MQ hoax on the Internet?

 

[Correa Neto]

OK, I just can't avoid it...

A foot very similar to Patty's?
Made of what? Rubber or wood?

 

[Drewbot]

I thought BIGFOOT In Oklahoma had 4 toes. Patty has five, correct me if I'm wrong on that.