AA77 FDR Data, Explained

[Turbofan]

Ok , so now we are back to saying that T4 does exist and that our toy example has T4=1 second?

And there are no scare quotes. When you write something to disk. And one second of real world time passes. That data aged by one second. Period.

I'm trying to figure out the relevance to the data and how this is significant
to your argument.

If I could see a timing diagram, or something to make sense of your
position, we wouldn't be 59 pages deep.

Do you have anything to show, or not?

All I'm saying is that a word at the beginning of the frame is 1-frame-length old when the frame completes. Words in the middle, are half-of-a-frame-period old when the frame completes. This is T4. This shouldn't be controversial. This concept is absurdly simple.

Yes, it's very simple. That word position never changes. It's the same for
every frame. Once again, I don't see the significance?

Yup -- that happens before T4. This has nothing to do w/ T4. This is completely unrelated to the issue at hand.

Yes, but it's not OLD information as you lead on. That sensor data is
continuously updating and refreshed. What ever gets clocked in, is current
data at the time stamp associated with that frame.

I am sticking with T4, the thing YOU SAID doesn't exist. I'm waiting for you tell me that it does, and you understand what it is. Every attempt to change the subject will be ignored with extreme prejudice.

Don't think for a second I'm going to dodge you. I'm trying to get you to
commit to an explanation and show supporting documentation.

This would be so much easier if you at least drew a diagram of where you
think T4 exists.

Right now, from all this mess, I can only imagine you want T4 to be the time
that sensor info takes to reach the input buffer of the FDAU?

If my FDR stores an 18 for word #0, and I crash one second later, before I can update that particular slot with some new value. The age of that 18 on the disk is one second. The value "18" is some measurement that is AT LEAST one second old. True or false?

My FDR frame is written completely with a time stamp x:xx:xx, and word 0is 18.

The next frame is lost...

The value 18 was captured at x:xx:xx + ~ 4 msec. max.

How does this effect your flight data? Give me your point.

Also tell me the word positions I asked for (4th request).

Thank you.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

It has been released, you just have to buy your copy. We're sending free
copies to MSM, and members of government, etc.

Too bad you weren't a member of PFT, or other truth movements. You could
get a free copy and show your friends.

I might be nice and upload a portion of the video which puts some of these
faceless 'experts' to shame.

So, grab yours now! If you hurry, you might even get a PFT apron with
your order. call now while quantities last!

Are you kidding?????? Are you serious??????

So this is just a money making scam? Wow, that's pretty low. hear hear, evidence of the biggest crime in history for sale at the right price! LOL!

So what have the responses been form the MSM?

And do we get a free T-shirt with a purchase?

 

[funk de fino]

I'm trying to figure out the relevance to the data and how this is significant
to your argument.

If I could see a timing diagram, or something to make sense of your
position, we wouldn't be 59 pages deep.

Do you have anything to show, or not?

Yes, it's very simple. That word position never changes. It's the same for
every frame. Once again, I don't see the significance?

Yes, but it's not OLD information as you lead on. That sensor data is
continuously updating and refreshed. What ever gets clocked in, is current
data at the time stamp associated with that frame.

Don't think for a second I'm going to dodge you. I'm trying to get you to
commit to an explanation and show supporting documentation.

This would be so much easier if you at least drew a diagram of where you
think T4 exists.

Right now, from all this mess, I can only imagine you want T4 to be the time
that sensor info takes to reach the input buffer of the FDAU?

My FDR frame is written completely with a time stamp x:xx:xx, and word 0is 18.

The next frame is lost...

The value 18 was captured at x:xx:xx + ~ 15.6 msec. max.

How does this effect your flight data? Give me your point.

Also tell me the word positions I asked for (4th request).

Thank you.

Warning, Warning - self debunking post alert

 

[Turbofan]

Are you kidding?????? Are you serious??????

So this is just a money making scam? Wow, that's pretty low. hear hear, evidence of the biggest crime in history for sale at the right price! LOL!

So what have the responses been form the MSM?

And do we get a free T-shirt with a purchase?

No scam here. It's called supporting those who stand up for what you believe in.

I guess you wouldn't understand the costs involved with buying software,
DVD's, long distance, computer hardware, etc.

It's ok, you can wait for the upload to Youtube/Google and then have your
free version!

Sorry, no apron or t-shirt then!

 

[Anti-sophist]

I'm trying to figure out the relevance to the data and how this is significant to your argument.

The argument is really simple. You said T4 doesn't exist and I'm trying to prove to you that it does. Stop trying to figure out the relevance and just answer the stupid question. Why must you dodge everything?

If the value 18 is recorded at time 0 and the plane crashes at time 0.99999s. How much has the data aged while sitting in the CPM? This isn't ****ing rocket science. There is no "x" in the answer. The answer is a very specific and obvious number.

Do you realize that the data is "older" than the crash, even though it occurs in the last frame? Do you realize that the data (18) is "older" than other parts of the very same frame? Like word #871? Or word #119? And therefore it represents some actual measurable DELAY from when it was stored until the crash occurred?

Do you understand that some period of time passes from when the word is written, until the frame ends?

Please answer the last question. Please. For the love of all that is holy, just answer the question. I shouldn't need to draw you a ****ing picture to convince you that time actually passes.

Also tell me the word positions I asked for (4th request).

Last time I tell you this: any attempt to change the subject will be ruthlessly ignored.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

No scam here. It's called supporting those who stand up for what you believe in.

I guess you wouldn't understand the costs involved with buying software,
DVD's, long distance, computer hardware, etc.

It's ok, you can wait for the upload to Youtube/Google and then have your
free version!

Sorry, no apron or t-shirt then!

So you only believe in justice and truth so long as you can recoup costs. You sounds like some twoo patriots there. The problem is that all the people you want to get it to don't support what you believe in, thus your video is just for yourselves.

 

[jhunter1163]

I think I'd like Turbo to time the rest of my life. Time doesn't seem to pass in his world.

 

[Turbofan]

The argument is really simple. You said T4 doesn't exist and I'm trying to prove to you that it does. Stop trying to figure out the relevance and just answer the stupid question. Why must you dodge everything?

If the value 18 is recorded at time 0 and the plane crashes at time 0.99999s. How much has the data aged while sitting in the CPM? This isn't ****ing rocket science. There is no "x" in the answer. The answer is a very specific and obvious number.

You use this term "aged" as if the data recored at time 0 changes if you
were to upload and view 100 years later?

Guess what Anti? If the value 18 was recorded at time 0, and the time
stamp is 9:00:00, then the aircraft sensor recorded the value 18 at 9:00:00
+ the time associated with the word position.

I STILL cannot figure out what you're trying to push.

What is your point about "aged" data?

You do understand that once the data frame is built and in transistion to
CPM, the time referenced data has not been subjected to additonal 'time delays'

Yes, or no?

Do you realize that the data is "older" than the crash, even though it occurs in the last frame?

So what? It's TIME STAMPED! It can't be more than 500 msec OLD either!!!

By design, the data cannot sit in buffers for more than half a second.

This is what you fail to understand!

Data is written from sensor to CPM no more than 500 mseconds.

NTSB has the impact time at 9:37:45

Last recorded frame 9:37:44

Do you realize that the data (18) is "older" than other parts of the very same frame? Like word #871? Or word #119? And therefore it represents some actual measurable DELAY from when it was stored until the crash occurred?

Yes, so what? It's the same word for every frame! You still haven't told me
what word position we can find RAD ALT, Vert. Accel, or Speed!

THis is important for your "theory".

Last time I tell you this: any attempt to change the subject will be ruthlessly ignored.

This isn't changing the subject. I'm answering your questions and staying
on topic. Please answer mine. Word position is completely relevant especially
since you are discussion AGE of words in a frame.

Show me your worth.

 

[Anti-sophist]

Quote:
Do you realize that the data (18) is "older" than other parts of the very same frame? Like word #871? Or word #119? And therefore it represents some actual measurable DELAY from when it was stored until the crash occurred?

Yes, so what?

So what? So there is some delay associated with the position of the word inside a frame. And that delay needs to be accounted for. I named it T4. I'm glad you see it my way. Maybe we can talk about T5 now.

Since you are positioning yourself as the expert, it's my turn to start asking you some questions.

What happened to the partial frame that was being recorded when the plane crashed? Can you decode a partial frame? How or why not? (hint: for those of you faking expertise, I've already answered this question in this thread)

 

[Turbofan]

So what? So there is some delay associated with the position of the word inside a frame. And that delay needs to be accounted for. I named it T4. I'm glad you see it my way. Maybe we can talk about T5 now.

I don't see much your way fortunately.

We're not done with T4 yet.

YOU need to tell me the word positions remember? I'm not answering anything
else, and we're not moving off this topic until YOU can prove to the world
that you have a frame layout.

Spill it Anti. It's request #6 now.

P.S. Don't run from your previous assertions
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread335956/pg1

 

[WildCat]

All am I saying is that when 1 second of real-life passes, the data on the disk gets 1 second older. AND YOU ARE ARGUING WITH ME.

I'm sitting here astounded that he is arguing with you about this, I mean I know truthers aren't the sharpest tools in the box but this is simply astonishing!

 

[Anti-sophist]

I don't see much your way fortunately.

Actually, yes you did.I asked you a very simple question about whether some measurable delay existed and you said "yes". Then you objected when I named that delay. Is it the name you object to? What would you like me to call it? Bob? Would that make you feel more comfortable? T1+T2+T3+Bob+T5? Would that be better?

Would you like me to re-ask the question so you can re-answer it? Does any time pass between writing, for example, the first word of the frame until the writing of the last word of the frame? Yes or no? That time period is what I named T4. The bit of data in the first word has been written for T4 seconds (uh, i mean Bob seconds), when the last word is written. Would you say that previous sentence is true? I am literally in awe that this is controversial.

We cannot continue talking if you start contradicting yourself and don't make any effort to rectify the situation.

 

[DavidJames]

I'm sitting here astounded that he is arguing with you about this, I mean I know truthers aren't the sharpest tools in the box but this is simply astonishing!

You analogy is a good one. CTists like body shop boy TF bring a toolbox to debate when he should bring a calculator, physics books and FDR experts. He's trying debate science using a hammer and a screwdriver, oh, and maybe a power sander.

 

[fitzgibbon]

Its all about the Benjamins eh?

Actually funk, from what I understand about TF, it's about the Loonies. Kind of fitting, all things considered.

 

[jaydeehess]

No. Your arithmetic is incorrect. It's covered, disected and put to rest in the
presentation complete with a reference diagram.

PFT also has detailed and updated figures using scale analysis which further
supports their research.

Is the "11.2 G" page still up? Has it been corrected?

PfT found it within their means to have the original on a web page. Now am I to believe that we have to wait until the new cheese comes out free on Youtube that we can see the supposed corrections without having to support PfT with our dollars?
Furthermore, the MSM and others on your mailing list ignored Pandora parts 1 & 2, what makes PfT believe it might be any different this time around?


IIRC BTW Mackey's calculations were based upon a flight path that was proposed by PfT.

 

[jaydeehess]

Actually, yes you did.I asked you a very simple question about whether some measurable delay existed and you said "yes". Then you objected when I named that delay. Is it the name you object to? What would you like me to call it? Bob? Would that make you feel more comfortable? T1+T2+T3+Bob+T5? Would that be better?

Would you like me to re-ask the question so you can re-answer it? Does any time pass between writing, for example, the first word of the frame until the writing of the last word of the frame? Yes or no? That time period is what I named T4. The bit of data in the first word has been written for T4 seconds (uh, i mean Bob seconds), when the last word is written. Would you say that previous sentence is true? I am literally in awe that this is controversial.

We cannot continue talking if you start contradicting yourself and don't make any effort to rectify the situation.

Don';t be silly. People named Robert do not necessarily want to be dragged into this.

Label them appropriately
T1
t2
B
Omega
MGA1102

 

[Turbofan]

Is the "11.2 G" page still up? Has it been corrected?

PfT found it within their means to have the original on a web page. Now am I to believe that we have to wait until the new cheese comes out free on Youtube that we can see the supposed corrections without having to support PfT with our dollars?
Furthermore, the MSM and others on your mailing list ignored Pandora parts 1 & 2, what makes PfT believe it might be any different this time around?


IIRC BTW Mackey's calculations were based upon a flight path that was proposed by PfT.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=573228904486758033&hl=en

 

[Turbofan]

Actually, yes you did.I asked you a very simple question about whether some measurable delay existed and you said "yes". Then you objected when I named that delay. Is it the name you object to? What would you like me to call it? Bob? Would that make you feel more comfortable? T1+T2+T3+Bob+T5? Would that be better?

Well, you can start with proper terminology so that we can discuss your
theory more efficiently.

The word position write time is not a delay.

T4 as you named it, also confuses the discussion because of where you
label in on the ARINC diagram. T4 in your case would be integral to the
FDAU where the data is framed.

Would you like me to re-ask the question so you can re-answer it? Does any time pass between writing, for example, the first word of the frame until the writing of the last word of the frame? Yes or no?

Yes it does.

Now, can you answer my question (after the 7th attempt)? PLease?

That time period is what I named T4. The bit of data in the first word has been written for T4 seconds (uh, i mean Bob seconds), when the last word is written. Would you say that previous sentence is true? I am literally in awe that this is controversial.

There would be nothing to discuss if you used the correct terms, and
noted the diagram properly.

IE: Data frame is formed within the FDAU and clocked out serially to the
FDR.

We cannot continue talking if you start contradicting yourself and don't make any effort to rectify the situation.

Now that I've corrected your terms, let's carry on.

Please state the word position for the three parameters in question.

This will give us the Bob...oops I mean delay...ahhh, I mean T4

From there, we can further pick apart your theory about how 'old' the
data is before the 'impact' of the aircraft

Thank you.

 

[WildCat]

The word position write time is not a delay.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

I hope the "perps" behind this conspiracy enjoy their free aprons.

Please post on topic.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Lisa Simpson