Marcus
Illuminator
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Have you done this sort of thing before, Professor?
Psychic Samurai applies for MDC...apparently...
- Thread starter Chris H
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Have you done this sort of thing before, Professor?
Chris H
Magician Among Spirits
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In the time it took you to write this post, you could have just as easily responded to the questions that have been asked above, and yet you didn't. Many here have already told you that you haven't answered these questions clearly. This seems to be nothing more than another diversionary tactic.
It seems as though the JREF are also growing tiresome of The Professors vague test conditions and apparent lack of commitment.
Chris
Chris H
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The Mirror Has Two Faces... - The Professor Slim Kings MDC Application
I've resisted starting this thread for a while, but it's got to the stage where I think I really need to make something clear to everyone here. So, what follows is a small sampling of 'The Professor' Slim Kings posts from over at The Magic Cafe.com. I was recently banned from there for providing links to outside sources, so will not be doing so here, but have instead copied the text for you to read from a small number of The Professors posts about the JREF and his challenge application from the last week. He posts on The Magic Cafe as Psychic Samurai, if anyone is interested in verifying the accuracy of these quotes. I've attempted to leave the majority of these posts intact, to eliminate accusations of taking things out of context, and have only eliminated things that don't have any relevance to his challenge.
I think these posts make it abundantly clear what Mr. Koenig's real motives regarding the JREF and the MDC are.
Cheers,
Chris
I've resisted starting this thread for a while, but it's got to the stage where I think I really need to make something clear to everyone here. So, what follows is a small sampling of 'The Professor' Slim Kings posts from over at The Magic Cafe.com. I was recently banned from there for providing links to outside sources, so will not be doing so here, but have instead copied the text for you to read from a small number of The Professors posts about the JREF and his challenge application from the last week. He posts on The Magic Cafe as Psychic Samurai, if anyone is interested in verifying the accuracy of these quotes. I've attempted to leave the majority of these posts intact, to eliminate accusations of taking things out of context, and have only eliminated things that don't have any relevance to his challenge.
I think these posts make it abundantly clear what Mr. Koenig's real motives regarding the JREF and the MDC are.
Cheers,
Chris
Piggy
Unlicensed street skeptic
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More confirmation that his intention is to get rejected.
He wants to bill his event as the one that Randi dared not challenge.
He's as dishonest as the day is long. And has been from day one.
That's why I take a rather hard line with him on his protocol thread.
I'm willing to work with people who think they can do what they claim. But I'm less inclined to play along with folks who are intentionally using JREF for their own purposes.
He wants to bill his event as the one that Randi dared not challenge.
He's as dishonest as the day is long. And has been from day one.
That's why I take a rather hard line with him on his protocol thread.
I'm willing to work with people who think they can do what they claim. But I'm less inclined to play along with folks who are intentionally using JREF for their own purposes.
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
There has been someone tested in the last 13 years. See this thread for one example.
CARINA LANDIN, Swedish Friend of the DEAD and
ROSEMARY HUNTER - Paranormal Urination
CARINA LANDIN, Swedish Friend of the DEAD and
ROSEMARY HUNTER - Paranormal Urination
Chris H
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The Professor claims that these do not qualify, as they are preliminary tests and not "actual" tests for the million dollars.
I'll no doubt cop a bollocking over at The Magic Cafe for posting this, but I felt that it was important to highlight the fact that we (more importantly, the JREF) are dealing with someone who appears to already have an ulterior motive in mind.
Cheers,
Chris
I'll no doubt cop a bollocking over at The Magic Cafe for posting this, but I felt that it was important to highlight the fact that we (more importantly, the JREF) are dealing with someone who appears to already have an ulterior motive in mind.
Cheers,
Chris
The Professor
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I'd like to thank those who have been helping me. Believe me, I am trying to prepare exactly what you'd like to hear, but more importantly what the JREF will accept. I'm so happy that the Moderators here let everyone say what they will but do not let me respond. Hope they do now. 
I have been answering these questions but you refuse to accept them since you are being sidetracked about the discussion on theM Cafe' about the JREF MDC as being a swindle. Many there think it is and I am wasting my time trying to be tested.
I've stated that I've asked questions and received answers while seated on the Devil's Chair. These answers did NOT come from "Normal" means but Paranormal ones! (Unless Invisible entities are normal, and it sounds like some of you think they should be called that.)
I am your chance to prove the JREF MDC isn't a swindle! Test Me!!!!
1) We, the JREF and myself, will remove all possibility of trickery.
2) I will sit on the Devil's Chair on (10/31/2008) and ask questions (In more than one language) of Entities that are Paranormal (Invisible, not of THIS World) in nature.
3) Their intelligent responses will be recorded on the latest and most advanced technological devices available.
4) Their answers will be obvious and clearly understandable. No judgement or translation will be needed unless the answers are in languages other than English. Translators will be on hand.
5) All of this will be paid for by someone "Other" than the JREF.
I hope that answers your questions again.
I DO want to take the challenge! I am working on the protocol as best I can.
Is this closer?
I have been answering these questions but you refuse to accept them since you are being sidetracked about the discussion on theM Cafe' about the JREF MDC as being a swindle. Many there think it is and I am wasting my time trying to be tested.
I've stated that I've asked questions and received answers while seated on the Devil's Chair. These answers did NOT come from "Normal" means but Paranormal ones! (Unless Invisible entities are normal, and it sounds like some of you think they should be called that.)
I am your chance to prove the JREF MDC isn't a swindle! Test Me!!!!
1) We, the JREF and myself, will remove all possibility of trickery.
2) I will sit on the Devil's Chair on (10/31/2008) and ask questions (In more than one language) of Entities that are Paranormal (Invisible, not of THIS World) in nature.
3) Their intelligent responses will be recorded on the latest and most advanced technological devices available.
4) Their answers will be obvious and clearly understandable. No judgement or translation will be needed unless the answers are in languages other than English. Translators will be on hand.
5) All of this will be paid for by someone "Other" than the JREF.
I hope that answers your questions again.
I DO want to take the challenge! I am working on the protocol as best I can.
Is this closer?
The Professor
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Thanks for posting this! (They wouldn't allow me to
) Now you will see that I am a bigger skeptic then many of you. I am Skeptical of the fairness of this test. I have been ever since I found out no one has ever taken it.So here I am. Is the proof in the pudding?
I've applied for the test to the dismay of many closed minded Skeptics.
I've stated my claims and all the rest. There are many here trying their best to prevent me from doing this but I am persisting. If you are an open minded skeptic you can see this clearly.
I am here .... I wan't to be tested!
Randi claims on the video that if I want to be tested I will.
I'm ready!
Czarcasm
Groovy Groovy Guru
1. To take the test, one must first qualify for the test by following all the rules of the test.Thanks for posting this! (They wouldn't allow me to
So here I am. Is the proof in the pudding?
I've applied for the test to the dismay of many closed minded Skeptics.
I've stated my claims and all the rest. There are many here trying their best to prevent me from doing this but I am persisting. If you are an open minded skeptic you can see this clearly.
I am here .... I wan't to be tested!
Randi claims on the video that if I want to be tested I will.
I'm ready!
2. Yeah, you're here,
Edited by chillzero:
Edited for moderated thread compliance
3. A proper application that follows the rules of the MDC does not dismay us in the least.
4. The only thing that is being prevented is a skirting of the rules of the MDC.
5. If you want to be tested, follow the rules of the test.
6 Ditto
Are you noticing a pattern in these answers?
Last edited by a moderator:
That's great. You sound great. Can you tell us what is the paranormal claim you'll be testing?
Hearing voices is not paranormal. I can hear voices. It costs about $20 and is made by Sandisk.
Are you saying that you are going to prove the existence of paranormal entities? If so, how?
Hearing voices is not paranormal. I can hear voices. It costs about $20 and is made by Sandisk.
Are you saying that you are going to prove the existence of paranormal entities? If so, how?
Piggy
Unlicensed street skeptic
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That claim will become believable when you follow through.
That is not true. I, for one, also had posts deleted for being off-topic or argumentative. Please do not slander the moderators.
I, for one, do not visit that forum. I am not being sidetracked by anything. So far, you have not produced any direct answers to my questions for me to accept.
Ok, so you've sat on the chair and spoken out loud and heard voices?
If that's the case, then all this elaborate set-up is not needed, since everyone else will be able to also hear these voices.
However, this is still not a testable paranormal event, since you might have heard the voices of local kids hiding behind the gravestones having a joke on you.
It is not necessary to test you in order to demonstrate the the challenge is not a swindle. Everything about the challenge is perfectly transparent already. Testing someone who is not making a testable claim would not prove anything.
That will be part of the protocol. Saying so in general terms is redundant.
That last part doesn't mean anything. What you're saying is that you'll sit there and ask questions. That's what this amounts to.
Why? If you've heard these voices, recording devices -- advanced or not -- are unnecessary. But there is still no paranormal claim here. (Tossing the word "paranormal" around doesn't somehow make an unqualified claim a qualified one.) You are saying that voices will be heard, that's all. There could be any number of reasons for that.
But you're missing the point. How will it be self-evident that the voices are somehow paranormal? The fact that voices are heard or are recorded on tape may be self-evident, but how will it be self-evident that these voices correspond to anything paranormal?
Not one inch closer, no.
jimtron
Illuminator
"...that are paranormal..."
How do you know they are paranormal, and more importantly, how will it be objectively clear to everyone that they paranormal? Once again, this is the key point that you continue to avoid answering.
Are these voices coming from dead people? Space aliens? Please tell us.
Professor, I'm sure most of us hear could set up a performance where voices are heard but no person is seen. Or do a trick where nothing is heard but a tape recorder played back has voices. But that of course would not be proof of the paranormal.
If you'd like to prove that the MDC is a sham, you'll have to first follow all of the rules, including coming up with a testable claim. If you don't follow the rules you don't have a case.
This is really getting silly.
often mrunderstood
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Ventriloquist?
I guess it is possible that The Prof doesn't actually understand what "testable claim" means.
+1 vote for publicity stunt
I guess it is possible that The Prof doesn't actually understand what "testable claim" means.
+1 vote for publicity stunt
What are these entities that you will ask questions of, how are you assured they will reply, and how are the ways they may reply to you?
Edit: Might as well add, "Why is Oct 31 so critical? (Will Dec 25 work as well? They're the same number...)" and "Why is the Devil's Chair so important?"
Jackalgirl
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TP, plenty of people have applied for the Challenge. Several have actually made it to the preliminary test.
That no one has made it to the formal test does not mean that the MDC is rigged. It means either:
1) the MDC is rigged
2) the conditions which are required to reach the formal portion of the MDC are impossible to achieve, because Paranormal abilities do not exist
A believer in Paranormal abilities would, of course, believe that 1) is the more likely solution. However, you can start to gather data on this by reading through the Challenge log. In it you will see, again and again, people who either can't state a testable claim, or who can't agree to a properly controlled protocol. You'll see that the JREF is controlling for trickery and raw chance in an attempt to ensure that the /only/ possible explanation is that something Paranormal is going on. And you'll see, in the cases of those tests that make it to the preliminary, that people's "powers" only work when those controls are not in place. Not ONE of those people has actually tested him- or herself under proper conditions before attempting the MDC.
This is why the fakers and the frauds, like Sylvia Browne, will not touch the MDC with a ten foot pole. Not because it's "unfair" or "rigged", as they all like to claim, but because they are not in total control of the conditions of the test and, therefore, cannot fake or trick their way through it.
Jury's still out on Carin Landin, because it turns out that the preliminary test was not carried out according to the protocol. What did JREF do? They declared the results (which were a FAIL for her) invalid and are giving her another go.
This is not the behaviour of an organization that is seeking to prevent people from taking the test. It's right there in the Challenge log to see. Granted, you have to assume that all or most of the available data pertaining to the MDC is actually there nd that it has been truthfully and accurately presented (however, if you feel that the JREF is purposefully withholding information or lying about the information they're presenting here, best be ready with your evidence).
Truly, the worst enemy of people who are genuinely out to prove their abilities is themselves.
-=-=-=-=-
Now, on to the protocol: how about putting yourself in a Faraday Cage, and each of the recorders in its own Faraday cage? This does not address the problem of acoustic projection, but (and please answer, anyone) would it control for radio transmissions, assuming that the cages were properly constructed and placed in such a way that tampering (and the insertion of covert antennae, etc) were obvious?
That no one has made it to the formal test does not mean that the MDC is rigged. It means either:
1) the MDC is rigged
2) the conditions which are required to reach the formal portion of the MDC are impossible to achieve, because Paranormal abilities do not exist
A believer in Paranormal abilities would, of course, believe that 1) is the more likely solution. However, you can start to gather data on this by reading through the Challenge log. In it you will see, again and again, people who either can't state a testable claim, or who can't agree to a properly controlled protocol. You'll see that the JREF is controlling for trickery and raw chance in an attempt to ensure that the /only/ possible explanation is that something Paranormal is going on. And you'll see, in the cases of those tests that make it to the preliminary, that people's "powers" only work when those controls are not in place. Not ONE of those people has actually tested him- or herself under proper conditions before attempting the MDC.
This is why the fakers and the frauds, like Sylvia Browne, will not touch the MDC with a ten foot pole. Not because it's "unfair" or "rigged", as they all like to claim, but because they are not in total control of the conditions of the test and, therefore, cannot fake or trick their way through it.
Jury's still out on Carin Landin, because it turns out that the preliminary test was not carried out according to the protocol. What did JREF do? They declared the results (which were a FAIL for her) invalid and are giving her another go.
This is not the behaviour of an organization that is seeking to prevent people from taking the test. It's right there in the Challenge log to see. Granted, you have to assume that all or most of the available data pertaining to the MDC is actually there nd that it has been truthfully and accurately presented (however, if you feel that the JREF is purposefully withholding information or lying about the information they're presenting here, best be ready with your evidence).
Truly, the worst enemy of people who are genuinely out to prove their abilities is themselves.
-=-=-=-=-
Now, on to the protocol: how about putting yourself in a Faraday Cage, and each of the recorders in its own Faraday cage? This does not address the problem of acoustic projection, but (and please answer, anyone) would it control for radio transmissions, assuming that the cages were properly constructed and placed in such a way that tampering (and the insertion of covert antennae, etc) were obvious?
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
You people keep on asking how the voices will be paranormal e.g. posted 11 September by RemieV. He has answered that question. His answer is
<start of answer><end of answer>
With such an unambiguous answer I do not see any point in asking it again.
As to people being tested before I have given you links to tests and the applicants have all failed. In short, everyone who has applied has either
1. Not being able to state what paranormal ability they have
2. Not being able to perform that paranormal ability.
<start of answer><end of answer>
With such an unambiguous answer I do not see any point in asking it again.
As to people being tested before I have given you links to tests and the applicants have all failed. In short, everyone who has applied has either
1. Not being able to state what paranormal ability they have
2. Not being able to perform that paranormal ability.
Mojo
Mostly harmless
Or
3) no person with real paranormal abilities would take on the MDC because [insert excuse here].
jimtron
Illuminator
and
4) There is someone who could win the MDC by truly demonstrating a phenomenon previously thought to be paranormal--it just hasn't happened yet.
I wouldn't rule this out, though it seems unlikely. To me the point of the MDC isn't to say unequivocally that paranormal stuff doesn't exist, but instead it's a way to a) challenge those who claim these abilities (ie, Sylvia Browne, John Edward, etc), and b) to encourage critical thinking when it comes to these claims.
To me the Challenge is saying, let's distinguish between real and fake supernatural abilities. If someone really can bend spoons with their mind, that would be thrilling and earth shattering--let's see it. If someone won the MDC, that person would go down in history and likely would instantly be rich and famous. And it would be good for the JREF to, as the entity that helped to demonstrate proof of the paranormal for the first time ever. But of course the applicant would have to really bend the spoon via telekinesis, and not using magic tricks or some other natural means.
Maybe some paranormal abilities are too difficult to test. But surely with all of the many types of claims out there, certainly one of them has to be testable, no? If you can remote view, that would be a cinch to test. Tell us what's written on a whiteboard in the next room. If you can move objects with your mind--that would be easy to test. No judging needed--either the object moved or it didn't. But of course threads, magnets, and other tricks must be eliminated.
Dave, if the paranormal voices are too tricky to test, maybe you've got something else that would be more direct, like remote viewing or telekinesis?
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