The reason for countering 9/11 conspiracy numpties

[Bananaman]

You're prabably expecting an emotional plea. This isn't one.

I've read so many 9/11 conspiracy theorist threads I'm practically an expert. OK, I'm not not engineer or architect or pilot, which will surprise no-one who has ever had to delete one of my posts, but for God's sake, it's just reached risible levels now.

Sooner or later every debunker reaches the stage where they just want to whack the miscreant round the head and tell him not to be stupid.

They're faced with facts. They ignore them.

They're faced with evidence. The evidence is lies.

They're faced with bloody horrific in your face proof that they're wrong and they ask silly childish questions about millisecond anomolies.

I shouldn't want to punch the nincompoops, but I do.

So why do I still wish sense to be bashed into their silly heads?

Quite simply because they're pissing on the graves of those who died.

If someone you cared about was murdered, for whatever reason, and the perpetrator was exonerated, if that's the word I want, in favour of an innocent party, I'd be pretty bloody upset. The same principle applies here. Those who died on 9/11 deserve better than to have their murderers excused as puppets, or whatever the latest fantasy they've dreamed up is. It's too sick.

Well, that's it. That's why I no longer laugh at them. I prefer to spit.

Those idiots at the memorial last week...hmmm, let's just say, I wish everyone there had just flicked the V sign at them and thrown the odd bottle of urine, just as if it was a crap band on the stage.

Bananaman (The pissed off)

p.s. admittedly I did get a little emotional, but not in a good way.

 

[Myriad]

As the eager easily-duped suburban kids move on to new fads and become thin on the ground and the "say anything as long as it's against Bush" contingent see increasing alternative avenues for their political disaffection, we're seeing the residue of the movement and their nature and motivations are becoming clearer.

The anti-Semites and Nazis, we're already familiar with. The career conspiracy exploiters and the lunatics they exploit, we're already familiar with. But there's a significant segment of the most recent wave of Internet truther trolls that appears to be more motivated by direct sympathy for the same Islamic fundamentalist Jihadist ideals (which after cutting through the centuries-old political and religious smokescreens basically come down to "stop giving human rights to women or we lose all hope of getting laid") that motivated the 9/11 attacks in the first place.

The Jihadists have little hope of being able to hijack any more planes so easily. But pissing on the graves of their past victims is easily within their, or their supporters', capabilities. I don't expect that movement to end any time soon.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[liverleef]

I'm fairly conservative (fiscally anyway) but I can have a rational conversation with someone who has polar opposite views. Sometimes I even change my position a little if they present a good argument. I'm open minded and I just don't take things as personally as others do.

The only person that I absolutely cannot keep my cool with is a truther. I've been asked why I'm so opposed to a second investigation. I usually blurt out that the truth movements goal is not a second investigation, their goal is to absolve al Qaeda of the murder of thousands of innocent people and that makes me mad. Really, really mad.

To add to what Myriad said, I think that after the election, particularly if Obama is elected, it will be interesting to see what happens to the truth movement. Many people fall into this group because of blind hatred of President Bush. Most of those truthers are likely to just move on after the election and look for other things to be pissed off about.

Thats when we are going to really have a look at the far right wing anti-government loonies, nazis, anti-semites, etc that make up the core of the truth movement.

 

[Tweeter]

You're prabably expecting an emotional plea. This isn't one.

I've read so many 9/11 conspiracy theorist threads I'm practically an expert. OK, I'm not not engineer or architect or pilot, which will surprise no-one who has ever had to delete one of my posts, but for God's sake, it's just reached risible levels now.

Sooner or later every debunker reaches the stage where they just want to whack the miscreant round the head and tell him not to be stupid.

They're faced with facts. They ignore them.

They're faced with evidence. The evidence is lies.

They're faced with bloody horrific in your face proof that they're wrong and they ask silly childish questions about millisecond anomolies.

I shouldn't want to punch the nincompoops, but I do.

So why do I still wish sense to be bashed into their silly heads?

Quite simply because they're pissing on the graves of those who died.

If someone you cared about was murdered, for whatever reason, and the perpetrator was exonerated, if that's the word I want, in favour of an innocent party, I'd be pretty bloody upset. The same principle applies here. Those who died on 9/11 deserve better than to have their murderers excused as puppets, or whatever the latest fantasy they've dreamed up is. It's too sick.

Well, that's it. That's why I no longer laugh at them. I prefer to spit.

Those idiots at the memorial last week...hmmm, let's just say, I wish everyone there had just flicked the V sign at them and thrown the odd bottle of urine, just as if it was a crap band on the stage.

Bananaman (The pissed off)

p.s. admittedly I did get a little emotional, but not in a good way.

In the words of old whats his name: " Bring it On"!
Oh thats right you cant, youre just another foreigner.

 

[Pardalis]

In the words of old whats his name: " Bring it On"!
Oh thats right you cant, youre just another foreigner.

Everybody is a foreigner to somebody else.

Besides, your country is a country of foreigners, it's what drove its progress from the beginning.

 

[JihadJane]

Quite simply because they're pissing on the graves of those who died.

Many family members of 911 victims are skeptical of the government's account. Perhaps you better inform them to their faces that they are pissing on their loved ones' graves.

 

[Bananaman]

Many family members of 911 victims are skeptical of the government's account. Perhaps you better inform them to their faces that they are pissing on their loved ones' graves.

Actually, you won't find very many of them supporting truther lies. I'd love to see your stinking group left in a room with all the relatives of those who died. I'd love to see you try and tell them what you think happened. You'd be lucky to get out alive.

Bananaman.

 

[JihadJane]

Actually, you won't find very many of them supporting truther lies. I'd love to see your stinking group left in a room with all the relatives of those who died. I'd love to see you try and tell them what you think happened. You'd be lucky to get out alive.

Bananaman.

I do not belong to any group, stinking or otherwise.

Your violent fantasies and those of other supposedly rational, scientific-method-supporting posters suggest that you could be using 911 as a way of expressing unrelated psychological issues.

Here is a list of 48 9/11 family members who signed a statement demanding a deeper investigation into the events of 911, who you claim are pissing on their loved one's graves and who you want to punch and spit on:

Joanne Barbara, wife of FDNY Asst. Chief of Dept. Gerard Barbara
Gayle Barker, sister of William A. Karnes, WTC
Michele Bergsohn, wife of Alvin Bergsohn, Cantor Fitzgerald
Derrill Bodley, father of Deora Bodley, passenger on Flight 93
Kathryn C. Bowden, sister of Thomas H. Bowden, Jr. WTC1, 104th floor
Janet Calia, wife of Dominick Calia, Cantor Fitzgerald, WTC1
Maggie Cashman, wife of William Joseph Cashman, United Flight 93
Lynne Castrianno Galante, sister of Leonard Castrianno, 1WTC, 105th floor
Elza Chapa-McGowan, daughter of Rosemary Chapa, Pentagon
Bruce De Cell, father-in-law of Mark Petrocelli North Tower, 92nd floor
Ralph D'Esposito, father of Michael D'Esposito, WTC, 96th floor
Loisanne Diehl, Surviving Spouse, Michael D. Diehl, WTC2, 90th floor
Adina D. Eisenberg, sister of Eric Eisenberg, WTC
Jonathan M. Fisher, son of Dr. Gerald Paul "Geep" Fisher, Pentagon
Michael J. Fox, brother of Jeffrey L. Fox, Tower 2, 89th floor
Laurel A. Gay, sister of Peter A. Gay, AA Flight 11
Irene Golinsky, wife of Col. Ronald F. Golinski USA RET, Pentagon
Lori, Jerry, and Beatrice Guadagno, sister and parents of Richard Guadagno, Flight 93
Kristen Hall, daughter of fallen firefighter Thomas Kuveikis 9/11
Kurt D. Horning, father of Matthew D. Horning, WTC Tower One, 95th floor
Jennifer W. Hunt, wife of William C. Hunt, Euro Brokers
John Keating, son of Barbara Keating, passenger on AA Flight 11
L. Russell Keene II, father of Russ Keene III, WTC2, 89th floor, KBW
Peter Kousoulis, sister died in WTC
Paul & Barbara Kirwin, parents of Glenn Davis Kirwin, Cantor Fitzgerald 105th floor
Barbara Krukowski-Rastelli, mother of William E. Krukowski, NYC firefighter
Laura and Ira Lassman, parents of Nicholas C. Lassman, died in WTC, Tower One
Johnny Lee, husband of Lorraine Greene
Alicia LeGuillow, mother of Nestor A. Cintron III
Francine Levine, sister of Adam K. Ruhalter, who died on 9/11
Bob McIlvaine, father of Robert McIlvaine, WTC, Merrill Lynch
Mary McWilliams, mother of FF Martin E. McWilliams- Engine 22
Daryl J. Meehan, brother of Colleen Ann Barkow, WTC 1, 105th floor
Elvira P. Murphy, wife of Patrick Murphy, WTC 1
Natalee Pecorelli, sister of Thomas Pecorelli of Flight 11
James L Perry, M.D and Patricia J. Perry, parents of John W. Perry, Esq., NYPD Officer 9/11
David Potorti, brother of James Potorti, North Tower, WTC, Marsh & McLennan
Terry Kay Rockefeller, sister of Laura Rockefeller, North Tower, WTC
Grissel Rodriguez-Valentin, wife of Benito Valentin, WTC1, 94th floor
Alissa Rosenberg-Torres, widow of Luis Eduardo Torres, post-9/11 mother, writer
Elaine Saber, mother of Scott Saber
Julie Scarpitta, mother of Michelle Scarpitta, WTC Building 2, 84th floor
Paula Shapiro, mother of Eric Eisenberg, WTC2
Elizabeth Turner, wife of Simon Turner, lost on 11th September 2001
Adele Welty, mother of Firefighter Timothy Welty, FDNY, Squad 288
Joan W. Winton, mother of David Winton, WTC, South Tower, 89th floor
David Yancey, husband of Vicki Yancey, American Airlines Flight 77
Nissa Youngren, daughter of Robert G. LeBlanc, flight 175

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041026093059633

 

[Bananaman]

Jihadjane, in real terms that list isn't very long, and further most of them would laugh at the fantasies of the truth movement.

Live with it.

Bananaman.

 

[CptColumbo]

Approximately 3000 people died on 9/11, in the attacks. There is probably an average of two living relatives (immediate family) per person. So about 6000 relatives (possibly more).

48/6000 = .008

making .8%

Or am I "math-retarded?"

6000 relatives is an estimate, IMO the actual figure is probably higher, thus lowering the percentage.

 

[gumboot]

That list, small as it is, only reflects a LIHOP accusation, not a MIHOP scenario which constitutes the overwhelming majority of Truther theories.

 

[jhunter1163]

Approximately 3000 people died on 9/11, in the attacks. There is probably an average of two living relatives (immediate family) per person. So about 6000 relatives (possibly more).

48/6000 = .008

making .8%

Or am I "math-retarded?"

6000 relatives is an estimate, IMO the actual figure is probably higher, thus lowering the percentage.

IMO, there would be far more than 6,000 relatives, as spouses, children, brothers, sisters, grandparents, and possibly grandchildren should be included as well. I think 50,000 relatives is not unrealistic.

 

[JihadJane]

What is the relevance of the size of the list to my comment? I just what to know if Bananaman would be prepared to tell these named individuals that they are pissing on their loved ones' graves and whether he/she wants to punch and spit on them.

Does Myriad think they are "Jihadist" supporters?

 

[CptColumbo]

IMO, there would be far more than 6,000 relatives, as spouses, children, brothers, sisters, grandparents, and possibly grandchildren should be included as well. I think 50,000 relatives is not unrealistic.

I was trying to apply PIR rules (closest to the [figure] without going over) and be conservative in the estimate. I also estimated the number of parents, siblings, spouse and children. Everyone has two parents, but not all are still alive. Some people are only children and haven't married and/or had kids yet. Including Grandparents and Grandchildren would certainly increase the number, as would including Step-relatives and In-Laws (as the list seemed to do).

 

[CptColumbo]

What is the relevance of the size of the list to my comment? I just what to know if Bananaman would be prepared to tell these named individuals that they are pissing on their loved ones' graves and whether he/she wants to punch and spit on them.

Does Myriad think they are "Jihadist" supporters?

You apparently missed Bananaman's reply. He wouldn't be telling them they are pissing on their loved ones' graves, since they are asking for a new investigation, not accusing (in some cases) their own relatives of being a part of a plot on 9/11.

Many factions of the "twoof" movement however do accuse the Military, FDNY and NYPD of being a part of the supposed plot.

 

[gumboot]

What is the relevance of the size of the list to my comment? I just what to know if Bananaman would be prepared to tell these named individuals that they are pissing on their loved ones' graves and whether he/she wants to punch and spit on them.

Does Myriad think they are "Jihadist" supporters?

I think you'll find that the people on that list would not fit the description Bananaman and Myriad offered.

 

[metamars]

Well, that's it. That's why I no longer laugh at them. I prefer to spit.

As far as I'm concerned, some of your spittle not only ends up (metaphorically speaking), on 911 Truth activists, but also 911 family members, and indeed the entire United States, considered either as a country (under any form of organization), but even more so as a country bound by the rule of law, enshrined in a (praiseworthy) Constitution.

But hey, as long as some of your metaphorical spit ends up on 911 Truthers, it's worth it, right?

Have a nice day.

 

[eeyore1954]

Many family members of 911 victims are skeptical of the government's account. Perhaps you better inform them to their faces that they are pissing on their loved ones' graves.

With 3,000 victims of a violent death it is not surprising that a few of the many family members would believe the conspiracy theories. But that is what it is a few. The overwhelming majority do not believe in any of these theories. And they were faced with a sudden void and were searching for reasons. Unfortunatley they have been duped by the "truth movement".

A friends grandson died when he had been drinking and drove into an irrigation ditch. She was given a belief that someone had run him off the road and she spent a small fortune trying to get the information from him through mediums (those vermin bled her dry off of her grief). She firmly believed the theory but that doesn't mean her belief had any basis in fact. People who face these tragedies search for answers to their trouble. And sometimes people lead them astray.

 

[TjW]

Many family members of 911 victims are skeptical of the government's account. Perhaps you better inform them to their faces that they are pissing on their loved ones' graves.

With 3,000 victims of a violent death it is not surprising that a few of the many family members would believe the conspiracy theories. But that is what it is a few. The overwhelming majority do not believe in any of these theories. And they were faced with a sudden void and were searching for reasons. Unfortunatley they have been duped by the "truth movement".

A friends grandson died when he had been drinking and drove into an irrigation ditch. She was given a belief that someone had run him off the road and she spent a small fortune trying to get the information from him through mediums (those vermin bled her dry off of her grief). She firmly believed the theory but that doesn't mean her belief had any basis in fact. People who face these tragedies search for answers to their trouble. And sometimes people lead them astray.

I am acquainted with a woman whose son was killed by a drunk driver. She was not and is not satisified with the effort that the government puts into apprehending drunk drivers before they can kill.

She can be quite vitriolic when speaking about this.

However, I've never gotten the impression she believes that her son was killed as a result of a government conspiracy to allow drunk driving.

I'm not going to go through a list of people, identify the cherry-picked quotes that serve as a reason to place them on the list, source them, and show item by item which ones are taken out of context. But it wouldn't surprise me to find that if I did that, the actual sentiments expressed would be along the lines of "Those [rule 10] bureaucrats could have done a better job of protecting us, and now they're going to try to minimize their own incompetence so they don't lose their jobs or seniority."

I don't think it's necessarily the case that because they would like to know who the incompetents were, that they believe an investigation would find that the twin towers were brought down by CD. In fact, for the information they're interested in, such an investigation would be a waste of resources.

 

[JihadJane]

You apparently missed Bananaman's reply. He wouldn't be telling them they are pissing on their loved ones' graves, since they are asking for a new investigation, not accusing (in some cases) their own relatives of being a part of a plot on 9/11.

Many factions of the "twoof" movement however do accuse the Military, FDNY and NYPD of being a part of the supposed plot.

I'm surprised to see a keen practitioner of the scientific method writing such rubbish and using pathetic baby language. Name these "many factions".

I have seen people in the military chain of command accused of complicity but that is very different from your collective " the Military".

Your tactics are shameful and dishonest.