Merged Was Hani Hanjour really inexperienced?

What is that "evidence?" I've asked you several times to provide it to me, but you haven't. Be specific.
I've told you where to find it. Go do your own research instead of takign the ***** here.



If ~A is true, and if the 77-dive could only be performed by a highly skilled pilot, then it follows that Hanjour did not fly 77 into the Pentagon. Therefore, clearly, (a) and (b) matter. What is the flaw in this argument?

The flaw is that he didfly the plane into the Pentagon.

Which doesn't mean he was, by conventional standards, "good."
So what?

1. I don't know what did or did not happen. Hence, I am not claiming that Hanjour did not fly into the Pentagon - only that IF the above were true, then he could not have flown into the Pentagon. Note the distinction.
2. The point is to show that there is an unresolved contradiction in the official story.

1. :rolleyes:

2. No there isn't.

"A building" doesn't necessarily mean "the Pentagon Building." This point stands.

Once again, the experts seem to disagree. See the above quotes.


And yet ... he still managed to do it.
Perhaps you should give some thought to the questions I posed about who did do it, if he didn't.

There is absolutely no logic to your position, and I really believe you don't actually believethe stance you have taken, and that you are merely trolling. Everything you need to know has been indicated in this thread already - very early on - but you ignore it and claim it hasn't been presented. If you had a reasonable argument you would be worth spending time on, but I am done wasting effort on you over this. It's completely ridiculous.
 
Actually, I'm not. Read post 42 (since I'm not allowed to quote it anymore).

Post 42 only has the first Bernard quote, you conveniently left out the one I posted. No one else quoted there is Bernard. You are being disingenuous. You are not grasping at straws, you are out and out lying. He meant the Pentagon. No one on the planet with a bit of English reading ability and comprehension would say different.
 
I've told you where to find it. Go do your own research instead of takign the ***** here.

I've looked and found nothing, but perhaps my research skills are poor. If that's the case, why not consider offering me a hand?




The flaw is that he didfly the plane into the Pentagon.

Begging the question. Which inference do you deny? Which premise is false?

If ~A is true, and if the 77-dive could only be performed by a highly skilled pilot, then it follows that Hanjour did not fly 77 into the Pentagon.

Again, what is the flaw in this argument?


It matters because: If Hanjour was a terrible pilot, and if the 77-dive could only be performed by a highly skilled pilot, then it follows that Hanjour did not fly 77 into the Pentagon.

Again, what is the flaw in this argument? Which inference do you deny? Which premise is false?


1. :rolleyes:

2. No there isn't.

How is A ^~A not a contradiction?



And yet ... he still managed to do it.

What is the evidence for what? Please, I really want to know.
 
Post 42 only has the first Bernard quote, you conveniently left out the one I posted. No one else quoted there is Bernard. You are being disingenuous. You are not grasping at straws, you are out and out lying. He meant the Pentagon. No one on the planet with a bit of English reading ability and comprehension would say different.

1. You continue to ignore the other quotes I cited.

Capt. Russ Wittenberg

"I flew the two actual aircraft which were involved in 9/11; the Fight number 175 and Flight 93, the 757 that allegedly went down in Shanksville and Flight 175 is the aircraft that's alleged to have hit the South Tower. I don't believe it's possible for, like I said, for a terrorist, a so-called terrorist to train on a [Cessna] 172, then jump in a cockpit of a 757-767 class cockpit, and vertical navigate the aircraft, lateral navigate the aircraft, and fly the airplane at speeds exceeding it's design limit speed by well over 100 knots, make high-speed high-banked turns, exceeding -- pulling probably 5, 6, 7 G's. And the aircraft would literally fall out of the sky. I couldn't do it and I'm absolutely positive they couldn't do it."

Capt. Daniel Davis: "Finally, going over the hill and highway and crashing into the Pentagon right at the wall/ground interface is nearly impossible for even a small slow single engine airplane and no way for a 757. Maybe the best pilot in the world could accomplish that but not these unskilled "terrorists".


"Commander Muga: The maneuver at the Pentagon was just a tight spiral coming down out of 7,000 feet. And a commercial aircraft, while they can in fact structurally somewhat handle that maneuver, they are very, very, very difficult. And it would take considerable training. In other words, commercial aircraft are designed for a particular purpose and that is for comfort and for passengers and it's not for military maneuvers. And while they are structurally capable of doing them, it takes some very, very talented pilots to do that. ...
I just can't imagine an amateur even being able to come close to performing a maneuver of that nature."

2. Asserting that he "meant" the Pentagon, when he only said "a building," does not suggest at all that he meant it. I'll rephrase my question.

Suppose the article went like this:

"Despite Hanjour's poor reviews, he did have some ability as a pilot, said Bernard of Freeway Airport. "There's no doubt in my mind that once that [hijacked jet] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a building and hit it," he said."

"However, Bernard then added, Hanjour could not have flew into the Pentagon the way he allegedly did."

Does this last statement contradict Bernard's previous statement? Yes or no?
 
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I've told you where to find it. Go do your own research instead of takign the ***** here.





The flaw is that he didfly the plane into the Pentagon.


So what?



1. :rolleyes:

2. No there isn't.




And yet ... he still managed to do it.
Perhaps you should give some thought to the questions I posed about who did do it, if he didn't.

There is absolutely no logic to your position, and I really believe you don't actually believethe stance you have taken, and that you are merely trolling. Everything you need to know has been indicated in this thread already - very early on - but you ignore it and claim it hasn't been presented. If you had a reasonable argument you would be worth spending time on, but I am done wasting effort on you over this. It's completely ridiculous.

btw, you need to learn how to live up to your name and "chill."
 
Sorry, but the experts disagree with you.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]


[5]

Hence, from the above, we can drive:
A. Hani Hanjour, the pilot who is alleged to have flown flight 77 into the pentagon, much have been a highly skilled pilot.
Consider the following:
[6]
[7]
[8]
[9]
[10]
[11]
[12]

Hence, from these above, we can derive:
A. ~A. Hani Hanjour, the pilot who is alleged to have flown flight 77 into the pentagon, was a terrible pilot.
Contradiction: (A ^~A)
[1] http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A14365-2001Sep11
[2] http://www.detnews.com/2001/nation/0109/13/a03-293072.htm

[3] http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/11/national/main310721.shtml
[4] http://911review.com/cache/errors/pentagon/abcnews102401b.html
[5] http://patriotsquestion911.com/#Muga

[6] http://www.newsline.umd.edu/justice/specialreports/stateofemergency/airportlosses091901.htm
[7] http://web.archive.org/web/20030908034933/http://www.gazette.net/200138/greenbelt/news/72196-1.html
[8] http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D00E0DC1E31F937A35756C0A9649C8B63
[9] Ibid.
[10] Ibid.
[11] Ibid.
[12] http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/10/attack/main508656.shtml

RL's # 3 dumb news story! Date 21 September 2001. LOL, Not real support. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/11/national/main310721.shtml
"The steep turn was so smooth, the sources say, it's clear there was no fight for control going on. And the complex maneuver suggests the hijackers had

better flying skills than many investigators first believed. "


a. The steep turn was not a steep turn, the plane was anywhere from 10 degrees to 20 degrees to 35 degrees of bank. Steep turns are 45 degrees and 60 degrees, another news story is busted.
b. This is not a complex turn maneuver, it was sloppy, not smooth the bank varied back and forth. The turn rate was only 320 degrees in 3 minutes. This is standard junk, the stuff of first flight flying. Even RL would do this on his first flight, he may not be as good as Hani, but even RL can crash a plane into the Pentagon without skill. This news story is junk.

DEBUNKED -
 
The only one I was referring to was Bernard. The other people are not Bernard, therefor they are irrelevant. You lied about Bernard. You should admit that, then the others can be discussed. Bernard destroys your argument.
 
The only one I was referring to was Bernard. The other people are not Bernard, therefor they are irrelevant. You lied about Bernard. You should admit that, then the others can be discussed. Bernard destroys your argument.

No, it does not follow from what you quoted that Bernard was referring to the Pentagon, as I explained.

Suppose the article went like this:

"Despite Hanjour's poor reviews, he did have some ability as a pilot, said Bernard of Freeway Airport. "There's no doubt in my mind that once that [hijacked jet] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a building and hit it," he said."

"However, Bernard then added, Hanjour could not have flew into the Pentagon the way he allegedly did."

Does this last statement contradict Bernard's previous statement? Yes or no?

Don't dodge my question.
 
In some alternate universe maybe. In this universe, Bernard is quite sure Hanjour hit the Pentagon. Read his words, don't make up stuff he did not say.
 
In some alternate universe maybe.

Therefore, you admit, his statement is consistent with the claim that Hanjour could not have flown 77 into the Pentagon.

In this universe, Bernard is quite sure Hanjour hit the Pentagon. Read his words, don't make up stuff he did not say.

I'm not suggesting that Bernard said Hanjour DID NOT fly 77 into the Pentagon; rather, I'm suggesting that his statement does not say- as you do - that Hanjour DID fly 77 into the Pentagon.
 
Also, address the other quotes in post 42. And the following:

Capt. Russ Wittenberg

"I flew the two actual aircraft which were involved in 9/11; the Fight number 175 and Flight 93, the 757 that allegedly went down in Shanksville and Flight 175 is the aircraft that's alleged to have hit the South Tower. I don't believe it's possible for, like I said, for a terrorist, a so-called terrorist to train on a [Cessna] 172, then jump in a cockpit of a 757-767 class cockpit, and vertical navigate the aircraft, lateral navigate the aircraft, and fly the airplane at speeds exceeding it's design limit speed by well over 100 knots, make high-speed high-banked turns, exceeding -- pulling probably 5, 6, 7 G's. And the aircraft would literally fall out of the sky. I couldn't do it and I'm absolutely positive they couldn't do it."

Capt. Daniel Davis: "Finally, going over the hill and highway and crashing into the Pentagon right at the wall/ground interface is nearly impossible for even a small slow single engine airplane and no way for a 757. Maybe the best pilot in the world could accomplish that but not these unskilled "terrorists".


"Commander Muga: The maneuver at the Pentagon was just a tight spiral coming down out of 7,000 feet. And a commercial aircraft, while they can in fact structurally somewhat handle that maneuver, they are very, very, very difficult. And it would take considerable training. In other words, commercial aircraft are designed for a particular purpose and that is for comfort and for passengers and it's not for military maneuvers. And while they are structurally capable of doing them, it takes some very, very talented pilots to do that. ...
I just can't imagine an amateur even being able to come close to performing a maneuver of that nature."
 
From the vaunted POST 42 "[Managers] reported him not because they feared he was a terrorist, but because his English and flying skills were so bad, they told the Associated Press, they didn't think he should keep his pilot's license…I couldn't believe he had a commercial license of any kind with the skills that he had,’ said Peggy Chevrette, the manager for the now-defunct JetTech flight school in Phoenix. "
From http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Flight_School_Dropouts



"Chevrette said that the school's student, Hani Hanjour, lacked adequate English skills to gain his pilot's license. An FAA official responded to her concerns by suggesting that Hanjour could use an interpreter even though mastery of English is a requirement for a pilot.

Chevrette said that when the Sept. 11 attacks occurred, she knew Hanjour must have been involved.

"I remember crying all the way to work knowing our company helped to do this," she said.
Chevrette said that Hanjour's English was so bad that it took him eight hours to complete an oral exam that should've taken two hours."

Fish in a barrel.
 
From the vaunted POST 42 "[Managers] reported him not because they feared he was a terrorist, but because his English and flying skills were so bad, they told the Associated Press, they didn't think he should keep his pilot's license…I couldn't believe he had a commercial license of any kind with the skills that he had,’ said Peggy Chevrette, the manager for the now-defunct JetTech flight school in Phoenix. "
From http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Flight_School_Dropouts



"Chevrette said that the school's student, Hani Hanjour, lacked adequate English skills to gain his pilot's license. An FAA official responded to her concerns by suggesting that Hanjour could use an interpreter even though mastery of English is a requirement for a pilot.

Chevrette said that when the Sept. 11 attacks occurred, she knew Hanjour must have been involved.

"I remember crying all the way to work knowing our company helped to do this," she said.
Chevrette said that Hanjour's English was so bad that it took him eight hours to complete an oral exam that should've taken two hours."

Fish in a barrel.


huh? How does that address the quote? She clearly said she reported him because his pilot skills were poor. What's the problem?
 
Therefore, you admit, his statement is consistent with the claim that Hanjour could not have flown 77 into the Pentagon.

No. The big clue is "alternate universe". At present, there are no known alternate universes, so I at no time admitted that Bernard said something he has never said. It is clear from the context that he meant the Pentagon. He was not talking about the building I live in, he was not talking about your house, he was not talking about any other building than the Pentagon. His words could not be any more clear. Don't take my word though, give him a call and ask him because he is what's called in my world, a primary source.
 
No. The big clue is "alternate universe". At present, there are no known alternate universes, so I at no time admitted that Bernard said something he has never said. It is clear from the context that he meant the Pentagon. He was not talking about the building I live in, he was not talking about your house, he was not talking about any other building than the Pentagon. His words could not be any more clear. Don't take my word though, give him a call and ask him because he is what's called in my world, a primary source.

Once again, "a building" does not mean "the Pentagon building." You keep asserting he means this without any argument.
 
Radical Logic's argument is basically pretending people have not addressed the issue and repeating that that he can't find where people address his requests, even while quoting some of them in his posts claiming nothing is addressed.

This is nothing but trolling.
 
huh? How does that address the quote? She clearly said she reported him because his pilot skills were poor. What's the problem?

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG. Read the quote and stop lying. The quote does not say he was a bad pilot, the quote says his English skills were poor. I am sorry, but you are doing nothing but outright lying now.
 

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