A Soldier On Obama

Oliver said:
Well, I don't make a difference between soldiers in 1935 and soldiers
in 2008. They tend to believe in the same crap their leaders tell them.
And regarding the soldier in question, he seems to read a tele-promter,
something a nazi-soldier would've done in the same naive way, wouldn't
he?
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Strikes me as an Ad Hom.

Sorry, Ollie, but I've got kids who were in service. Illegal orders are to be reported, ignored, and prosecuted. The guys who were in Nazi service in 1935 were a far different breed than they are now.

And comparing that young man on the video with a Nazi because he used a teleprompter or idiot cards is a smear. When I worked in radio and TV, I used them, and did so because it made it possible to get my message across with better clarity. Did that make me a Nazi?

I don't agree entirely with the young man on the video, but you have done more to make his point with your slam than anything else I've read on this board. If that was your goal, bravo. If not, perhaps you should reconsider your methods.
 
Oliver said:
Well, I don't make a difference between soldiers in 1935 and soldiers
in 2008. They tend to believe in the same crap their leaders tell them.
And regarding the soldier in question, he seems to read a tele-promter,
something a nazi-soldier would've done in the same naive way, wouldn't
he?
Click to expand...

Fascinating.

During the Vietnam Mai Lai Massacre, Warrant Officer Hugh Thompson, a chopper pilot, landed and told his crew that, if the U.S. soldiers shot at the Vietnamese civilians while he was trying to get them out of the bunker, they were to open fire on them.

Could you tell about any WWII atrocity committed by German soldiers where other German soldiers stepped in and stopped the criminal activity?

Barbara Walters was reading the TelePrompTer when she was grilling McCain on Friday's "The View." Why did she need coaxing on what to say and ask in a supposed spontaneous and informal setting?

As much as the shrikes on The View resemble Ilse Koch, I don't think they would pass the Ubermensch racial purity standard.
 
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Cicero said:
Fascinating.

During the Vietnam Mai Lai Massacre, Warrant Officer Hugh Thompson, a chopper pilot, landed and told his crew that, if the U.S. soldiers shot at the Vietnamese civilians while he was trying to get them out of the bunker, they were to open fire on them.

Could you tell about any WWII atrocity committed by German soldiers where other German soldiers stepped in and stopped the criminal activity?

Barbara Walters was reading the TelePrompTer when she was grilling McCain on Friday's "The View." Why did she need coaxing on what to say and ask in a supposed spontaneous and informal setting?

As much as the shrikes on The View resemble Ilse Koch, I don't think they would pass the Ubermensch racial purity standard.
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I've read a great deal about Thompson. In some circles, CWO Thompson was regarded as a traitor, while in others, he's considered the hero that he is. He ultimately received the Soldier's Medal for his courage and ethics. He represents the best in our service people.

As to Barbara Walters, I fail to see how using a piece of low-tech equipment makes her a Nazi, particularly since she's Jewish. If anything, her use of video equipment, which makes editing an event for telebitchin' broadcast a relatively easy exercise, might qualify, but that's in use across the political spectrum.

Perhaps Joan Ganz Cooney of "Sesame Street" fame might have some insight into this, given her role as a mentor to people such as Diane Sawyer. Or not. I doubt it would change Oliver's attitude.
 
Apparently, the soldier and the Republicans see themselves as doing a Marshall Plan for Iraq.

It is actually closer to Friedman's Chicago boys raping Pinochet-era Chilean.

Idiot boy Bremmer wrote the new constitution for the specific purpose of taking the door off the hinges to let the entrepreneurs in to have their way with the country.
 
leftysergeant said:
I have not heard of its being reopened since the idiot Bremmer ordered it closed and put up for sale.
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So you think Iraq is importing cement? :boggled:

And I take it by your omission you now admit you just lied made up all the stuff about how we bombed sewage plants, hospitals, etc.?
 
leftysergeant said:
Idiot boy Bremmer wrote the new constitution for the specific purpose of taking the door off the hinges to let the entrepreneurs in to have their way with the country.
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Reality and you aren't on a first name basis, are you?

Attack the argument, not the person making the argument.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jmercer
 
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Roadtoad said:
As to Barbara Walters, I fail to see how using a piece of low-tech equipment makes her a Nazi, particularly since she's Jewish.
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Well, I said she wouldn't pass Ubermensch muster, as neither would Whoopie, Shepherd, or Behar, who married a Jew. If Oliver believes the soldier in the video is a martinet/automaton of the Bush Administration because he apparently read from a TelePrompTer when asked to give his own opinion, then Walters must be a martinet/automaton of her boss for using the same technology when she was supposedly offering her own opinions.
 
WildCat said:
Reality and you aren't on a first name basis, are you?
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Bremmer closed the cement plant and put it up for sale. No takers, last I heard.

The foreign companies doing the work that Iraqi companies should be doing import their own cement, along with their slave labor.

Bremmer was there to build a Friedmanite test bed.
 
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Roadtoad said:
Strikes me as an Ad Hom.

Sorry, Ollie, but I've got kids who were in service. Illegal orders are to be reported, ignored, and prosecuted. The guys who were in Nazi service in 1935 were a far different breed than they are now.

And comparing that young man on the video with a Nazi because he used a teleprompter or idiot cards is a smear. When I worked in radio and TV, I used them, and did so because it made it possible to get my message across with better clarity. Did that make me a Nazi?

I don't agree entirely with the young man on the video, but you have done more to make his point with your slam than anything else I've read on this board. If that was your goal, bravo. If not, perhaps you should reconsider your methods.
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Well, I had to serve in the German Bundeswehr as well - but it doesn't
make a difference if you served in the 1930's or in the year 2007. The
guys back then didn't have any bad patriotism in mind, either.

However: If the guy in this clip - and it certainly looks like that - is
reading a tele-promter, the whole discussion is nothing but bull.

In other Words: Election-based patriotism my ass. I served as well.
[Added: And German soldiers aren't even allowed to make political statements. ;)]
 
Oliver said:
[Added: And German soldiers aren't even allowed to make political statements. ;)]
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I should add that this particular policy is about: "You serve the Republic
of Germany, not a single party". A soldier serving his country for one party
over another is a fool - IMHO.
 
Oliver said:
Well, I had to serve in the German Bundeswehr as well - but it doesn't make a difference if you served in the 1930's or in the year 2007. The
guys back then didn't have any bad patriotism in mind, either.
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So you served in the Bundswehr. Yip-dee sh**.

I worked with guys in the Bundeswehr. Honest, dedicated, honorable. At some point, someone in '35 should have figured out that what was going on was simply wrong.

That doesn't give you the right, however, to smear the men and women I knew in the 1980's in Wuerzburg, Ansbach, Frankfurt, and other places throughout Germany.

Oliver said:
However: If the guy in this clip - and it certainly looks like that - is reading a tele-promter, the whole discussion is nothing but bull.
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It's only bull to you. To someone who's done some work in front of a TV camera, it's making sure you've got everything you want to say clearly expressed before you commit it to video. You have no evidence that the soldier didn't write that himself. Chances are pretty even that he did.

Using a teleprompter is actually pretty smart when you want to make sure you get it right, regardless of which side of the fence you're on.

Keep going. You're continuing to make the point for McCain.

Oliver said:
In other Words: Election-based patriotism my ass. I served as well.
[Added: And German soldiers aren't even allowed to make political statements. ;)]
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Too bad. I knew a lot of German soldiers who were better informed than their American counterparts, and could tell us a thing or two.

As to your service, precisely how well did you serve given your penchant for smear?

This is not election based patriotism. This was one man's opinion. In this country, we're allowed to express what we believe. That's a strength. Don't like what the man had to say? Fine, but don't look to slander and defame those who serve(d) honorably, because there are many of them, including your fellow soldiers in Europe. I'm willing to be that when they go the polls to vote for who represents them in the Bundestag, they take the time to carefully consider the issues and challenges of the day, particularly the military threats the FRG faces, regardless of their role in NATO.
 
leftysergeant said:
Tacticly, we are doing reasonably well inIraq because there are still NCOs and officers trained up under Clinton and Shinseki on active duty to babysit the rejects that the Bush policies have forced the services to start accepting.
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This has got to be one of the most ridiculous claims I've ever seen.

Have anything to substantiate this ridiculous claim?
 
Roadtoad said:
So, which candidate is going to do the best job in rebuilding the damage GWB and crew did to us? Personally, I think the person who could do it isn't running. (No, I don't know who it is, but I'm tempted to write in Leiberman as a protest vote.) But I know it sure as hell ain't Obama, who hasn't a clue what a military force is for, which Rush Limbaugh (quoting MacArthur, one of the very few things he's gotten right) has described as "Killing people and breaking things."

Sorry. Thanks to the past few administrations, our military has gone from being a genuine force of destruction to our enemies to becoming a phony force of philianthropic fallacy.
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Why do you think that is? Here is my thought. Bush has denigrated diplomacy as an international force, taken a you're-with-us-or-against-us attitude toward others and has glorified military services. He is joined in this generally by the right and enthusiastically by the hard-right and neocons. This attitude can be seen in the huge growth in the military budget.

In this environment, the military becomes the dominant, if not only, force that has power and influence. Thus, it increasingly has to take on non-traditional military roles that you rightly disdain.

I would suggest to you that Obama's approach to reemphasizing diplomatic and NGOs in the international arena will allow the military to return to their traditional job.

Let me put it another way. You say Obama doesn't have a clue as to what military force is for. Maybe. But I would assert that he does know what it is NOT for, namely for nation-building and diplomacy. So if you want to return the military to its usual killing/destroying role then vote for the guy who wants to remove all the other roles that have been assigned to it.

Sure, you can write in Lieberman - or Bozo the Clown for that matter. But why bother? Why bother to vote at all?
 
Drysdale said:
This has got to be one of the most ridiculous claims I've ever seen.
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I'm not lefty, but I'm not sure which claim you think is ridiculous. The one that the army has reduced its recruiting standards? The one that army middle management (so to speak) has been leaving in droves? Or some other point lefty made.

If you can be more specific, I'm sure lefty can respond to your request for evidence.
 
Roadtoad said:
I worked with guys in the Bundeswehr. Honest, dedicated, honorable. At some point, someone in '35 should have figured out that what was going on was simply wrong.

That doesn't give you the right, however, to smear the men and women I knew in the 1980's in Wuerzburg, Ansbach, Frankfurt, and other places throughout Germany.
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Decent enough? ;)
 
WildCat said:
http://www.iraqdevelopmentprogram.org/idp/news/new1744.htm

leftysergeant<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>reality

Far, far away...
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Yeah, right, Bremmer's iron collar would not let them run their own factory, sop they have to lease it oput to foreign companies. Where's the Iraqi ownership?

You got something against a country not allowing foreign ownership of stuff they used to do for themselves? You want them to sell their rights of way to foreign toll-road operators, too?

Why did it take five years to get back on line? As i understand, it was operable when thug boy Bremmer shut it down.
 
Oliver said:
[Added: And German soldiers aren't even allowed to make political statements. ;)]
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That's because the world is still recovering from the political statements of a certain Austrian Corporal that served in the Deutsche Armee.
 
leftysergeant said:
yeah, right, bremmer's iron collar would not let them run their own factory, sop they have to lease it oput to foreign companies. Where's the iraqi ownership?

You got something against a country not allowing foreign ownership of stuff they used to do for themselves? You want them to sell their rights of way to foreign toll-road operators, too?

Why did it take five years to get back on line? As i understand, it was operable when thug boy bremmer shut it down.
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pds
qed
 
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