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Merged Was Hani Hanjour really inexperienced?

Will you please address the following?


"FBI agents have questioned and administered a lie detector test to one of Hanjour's instructors in Arizona who was an Arab American and had signed off on Hanjour's flight instruction credentials before he got his pilot's license."

Now here's the question: when did he get his pilot's license?

Answer: April 15 1999.
http://www.historycommons.org/entity...y=daryl_strong

Therefore, the assessment that he was a "very average pilot" was made BEFORE the assessment that his skills were terrible. Does this inference follow? Yes or no?
 
radical_logic said:
First, in this thread, I've seen only one - maybe two - alleged expert say that the dive wasn't difficult. In some of the links I was given, there were quotes like: "expert Michael (last name withheld) says blah blah..." So it's hard to take those quotes seriously, especially when they aren't even made in any reputable news article.

Second, I've provided a lot of quotes (from mainstream sources, no less) suggesting that the dive was difficult and not at all easy. Therefore, if there is a "a preponderance of expert opinion," then it should be easy to give me much more than one expert who disagrees with all the quotes I cited.

Third, even if you could provide me with many experts who disagree with the experts referenced in the news articles I cited, that doesn't make them correct. We still have a disagreement among experts.
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Okay, suppose there were a new investigation. How would the investigators resolve this perceived disagreement between experts?

Do you think they might ask more experts, making sure each expert they ask receives all the relevant information available (unlike most of the ones you cite which were too soon after the event to have all the information), including the FDR data, radar tracking data, and the full reports from all of Hanjour's U.S. instructors?

Do you think they might even go back and re-ask the same experts who appear to be disagreeing, to clarify and update their positions based on all the information?

Hold on, let me do that investigation for you and get back to you.

Or, wait, even better, you do it yourself, so you won't have to wonder if I'm reporting the results truthfully or not. Is anything stopping you?

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Myriad said:
Or, wait, even better, you do it yourself, so you won't have to wonder if I'm reporting the results truthfully or not. Is anything stopping you?

Respectfully,
Myriad
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uh...yeah. How can I possibly do it myself? Hence we need a new investigation to sort out all the problems.
 
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radical_logic said:
Will you please address the following?


"FBI agents have questioned and administered a lie detector test to one of Hanjour's instructors in Arizona who was an Arab American and had signed off on Hanjour's flight instruction credentials before he got his pilot's license."

Now here's the question: when did he get his pilot's license?

Answer: April 15 1999.
http://www.historycommons.org/entity...y=daryl_strong

Therefore, the assessment that he was a "very average pilot" was made BEFORE the assessment that his skills were terrible. Does this inference follow? Yes or no?
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So what?
Look, basically, whatever skill level he had is rendered moot by the evidence that supports the fact that he flew the plane into the building.
 
Now Radical is just plain trolling. he is intentionally ignoring all the questions that if answered would prove him wrong. He is also using the quote of him being a terrible pilot and claiming that it is being stated by instructors. That is a 100% lie. That quote is NOT from any instructors but simply a quote by the articel author and being taken out of context.

Now his argument is that the statements made by the instructors while being questions AFTER 9/11 mean that somehow they trump the statements made while he was training. Aside form this absolute dishonest absurdity of his, ALL the quotes were taken AFTER 9/11, including the instructor saying he was an average pilot.

This is nothing but plain fraud and dishonesty in Radicals arguments.
 
radical_logic said:
huh? If you can find an expert who testifies to Hanjour's great piloting skills, I'm all ears. I don't know of any.
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but you can find an expert who claims he was an average pilot, and you have penty of experts who state that the maneuvers were not difficult. On top of that you have hard evidence (as opposed to opinion) that he was a capable pilot and certified to fly. A feat the requires a pilot ot be competent at flying and not terrible.
 
chillzero said:
So what?
Click to expand...

I appreciate a direct answer to my question.

"FBI agents have questioned and administered a lie detector test to one of Hanjour's instructors in Arizona who was an Arab American and had signed off on Hanjour's flight instruction credentials before he got his pilot's license."

Now here's the question: when did he get his pilot's license?

Answer: April 15 1999.
http://www.historycommons.org/entity...y=daryl_strong

Therefore, the assessment that he was a "very average pilot" was made BEFORE the assessment that his skills were terrible. Does this inference follow? Yes or no?



chillzero said:
Look, basically, whatever skill level he had is rendered moot by the evidence that supports the fact that he flew the plane into the building.
Click to expand...

I'm open to the evidence. What is it?
 
radical_logic said:
huh? If you can find an expert who testifies to Hanjour's great piloting skills, I'm all ears. I don't know of any.
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Whoa there, cowboy.

You said a relevant expert would falsify your beliefs that Hanjour was an inexperienced pilot. Who is that expert?

I don't have to find him or her, buckaroo. You do.
 
stilicho said:
Whoa there, cowboy.

You said a relevant expert would falsify your beliefs that Hanjour was an inexperienced pilot. Who is that expert?

I don't have to find him or her, buckaroo. You do.
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Again, I don't know of any pilot who claims that Hanjour, in the intervening months before 9/11, was anything but substandard. Do you?
 
stilicho said:
Whoa there, cowboy.

You said a relevant expert would falsify your beliefs that Hanjour was an inexperienced pilot. Who is that expert?

I don't have to find him or her, buckaroo. You do.
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But he doesn't believe one to exist, so he isn't obligated. however, it's a completely dishonest argument because now he is trying to argue that one has to be an excellent pilot to perform the maneuvers, which is a completely false claim. he need only be an average pilot and not even that. And we have an expert instructor who does clarify that. We also have his commercial pilots lisc which proves beyond opinion that he was more than capable.

BUT, even if there was not a single expert to verify his flying ability, and even if he didn't have a pilots lisc to prove beyond any doubt that he was a capable pilot, it still does NOT prove he was not able to make the maneuvers.
 
Jonnyclueless said:
But he doesn't believe one to exist, so he isn't obligated. however, it's a completely dishonest argument because now he is trying to argue that one has to be an excellent pilot to perform the maneuvers, which is a completely false claim. he need only be an average pilot and not even that. And we have an expert instructor who does clarify that. We also have his commercial pilots lisc which proves beyond opinion that he was more than capable.
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Not to mention his own expert he keeps referring to, Bernard, who says he could do it also.
 
chillzero said:
Well, you are in the right place. Start reading this subsection.
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Why won't you answer my question?



"FBI agents have questioned and administered a lie detector test to one of Hanjour's instructors in Arizona who was an Arab American and had signed off on Hanjour's flight instruction credentials before he got his pilot's license."

Now here's the question: when did he get his pilot's license?

Answer: April 15 1999.
http://www.historycommons.org/entity...y=daryl_strong

Therefore, the assessment that he was a "very average pilot" was made BEFORE the assessment that his skills were terrible. Does this inference follow? Yes or no?
 
Pardalis said:
Not to mention his own expert he keeps referring to, Bernard, who says he could do it also.
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And that the quote he is using to claim Hani was a terrible pilot is NOT from any of his instructors, but simply by the article author base on the instructors criticism of his English and tardiness, not his actual flying ability.
 
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