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Merged Was Hani Hanjour really inexperienced?

radical_logic said:
Nothing in that quote resolves the contradiction. It's still the case that Hanjour, who many attest was a terrible pilot, made a maneuver that experts say only a highly trained pilot could pull off.
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I was an instructor in a 300,000 pound jet aircraft. Anyone could do the simple maneuvers Hani did on 9/11, only people who are ignorant on flying issue and few fringe doltish pilots make up lies like you do.

Your experts are dolts.

radical_logic said:
I'm sorry, but I don't see how your assertion squares with the following claims:
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Because you use hearsay and Reheat is a pilot. You present hearsay junk for something anyone can do. Hit the largest office building in the world.
Anyone off the street could fly as good as needed to crash into building, and not be able to land safely. Sorry, I have taken people flying in large jets, they were able to point the 300,000 pound plane with no problem, you are making up lies without experience or evidence. I have first hand experience with non pilots at the controls of planes and simulators.

You ideas are false, don't try to spew more hearsay and news stores and leave out the rest of the story.
 
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radical_logic said:
Nothing in that quote resolves the contradiction. It's still the case that Hanjour, who many attest was a terrible pilot, made a maneuver that experts say only a highly trained pilot could pull off.
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You're "experts" make assumptions that are patently wrong. For instance, if Hani was a "highly trained" pilot, the turn would have never been made. As far as the turn is concerned, it is a basic flight maneuver that ALL pilots learn. Of course, there are the lies like:
Investigators are particularly impressed with the pilot who slammed into the Pentagon and, just before impact, performed a tightly banked 270-degree turn at low altitude with almost military precision.
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It was a 330 degree turn. If your "source" can't even get the turn correct, how can anything else they say be credible? BTW, on my first solo, I had to make the "incredibly difficult" 360 degree turn while in the pattern at 1000' AGL.
 
lapman said:
You're "experts" make assumptions that are patently wrong. For instance, if Hani was a "highly trained" pilot, the turn would have never been made.
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Huh? How does that follow?

lapman said:
As far as the turn is concerned, it is a basic flight maneuver that ALL pilots learn.
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The "turn" wasn't the only aspect of the maneuver that made it difficult.

lapman said:
Of course, there are the lies like:
It was a 330 degree turn. If your "source" can't even get the turn correct, how can anything else they say be credible? BTW, on my first solo, I had to make the "incredibly difficult" 360 degree turn while in the pattern at 1000' AGL.
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First observations can be wrong, which isn't all that surprising. But the claim that the maneuver performed was incredibly difficult has not been disputed in any mainstream news story I've come across.
 
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"As a former pilot, the President was struck by the apparent sophistication of some of the piloting, especially Hanjour's high-speed dive into the Pentagon." (9/11 Comission Report page 334)
 
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beachnut said:
I was an instructor in a 300,000 pound jet aircraft. Anyone could do the simple maneuvers Hani did on 9/11, only people who are ignorant on flying issue and few fringe doltish pilots make up lies like you do.

Your experts are dolts.


Because you use hearsay and Reheat is a pilot. You present hearsay junk for something anyone can do. Hit the largest office building in the world.
Anyone off the street could fly as good as needed to crash into building, and not be able to land safely. Sorry, I have taken people flying in large jets, they were able to point the 300,000 pound plane with no problem, you are making up lies without experience or evidence. I have first hand experience with non pilots at the controls of planes and simulators.

You ideas are false, don't try to spew more hearsay and news stores and leave out the rest of the story.
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Since he stated that Beachnut was on ignore I thought I would quote his response for him.

Also, I love the way he cherry picks and leaves out pertinent info. For example, Daniele O'Brien said, "The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane," says O'Brien. "You don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe."

Of course he ommitted the last sentence which completely explains the context. They thought (at first) it was a military plane because they weren't used to seeing airliners fly in such a manner. How hard is that to understand? How does that somehow bolster the CT position?
 
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radical_logic said:
"As a former pilot, the President was struck by the apparent sophistication of some of the piloting, especially Hanjour's high-speed dive into the Pentagon." (9/11 Comission Report page 334)
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Good to know you don't think the President of the United States was involved in a conspiracy to attack itself.
 
Those links are almost seven years old, there has been a major investigation since then.
 
radical_logic said:
Huh? How does that follow?
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A "highly trained" pilot would have timed the descent to fly directly into the Pentagon.
The "turn" wasn't the only aspect of the maneuver that made it difficult.
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There is nothing difficult by said maneuver.
First observations can be wrong, which isn't all that surprising. But the claim that the maneuver performed was incredibly difficult has not been disputed in any mainstream news story I've come across.
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All of your quotes about the turn are based on faulty information. When all the real facts are looked at, it was not all that difficult.
 
lapman said:
A "highly trained" pilot would have timed the descent to fly directly into the Pentagon.
There is nothing difficult by said maneuver.
All of your quotes about the turn are based on faulty information. When all the real facts are looked at, it was not all that difficult.
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Lapman, so you disagree with the "expert claims" made in the sources I cited, including one in the 9/11 Comission report.

"As a former pilot, the President was struck by the apparent sophistication of some of the piloting, especially Hanjour's high-speed dive into the Pentagon." (9/11 Comission Report page 334)

Can you link me to some credible refutations of the claims in those sources I cited?

(Btw, I’ll state a fact that should be obvious to anyone who gives serious attention to post 43: the sources I cited include reports from the Washington Post, CBS news, Maryland Newsline, Greenbelt Gazette, and New York Times.)
 
How good a pilot do you have to be to hit a huge target?

My flying experience has been almost entirely as a passenger - I've never managed to get a flight simulator to land in one piece. I've flown over the Pentagon, though, both before and after 9/11, and it's pretty hard to miss. It stands out: there aren't any other 29 acre, 921' on a side pentagonal buildings around there. It stands out. If the guy at the controls can steer the plane in the air he can steer it into the building.

We don't know if Hanjour hit where he was intending to, and he's certainly not talking. My own speculation is that he was supposed to target the Capitol (why? it's an iconic symbol of the US, on the highest spot in the area, with a large green space pointing right at it, and hitting it would take out most of one branch of the government causing an even greater blow to the US) but missed and went for a secondary target. Terrorists tend to strike where they will cause the most confusion and fear, and, Al Qaida post facto claims to the contrary, I don't think the Pentagon was that much in the American consciousness before 2001.
 
Pardalis said:
Those links are almost seven years old, there has been a major investigation since then.
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"As a former pilot, the President was struck by the apparent sophistication of some of the piloting, especially Hanjour's high-speed dive into the Pentagon." (9/11 Comission Report page 334)
 
What part of "based on faulty information" are you failing to grasp? Even that quote is wrong. Hani did not make a high-speed dive into the Pentagon.
 
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