Psychic Samurai applies for MDC...apparently...

[Crispy Duck]

Perhaps this impasse can be broken by specifying a different paranormal event. Professor, what other abilities, besides speaking via ITC/EVP machines, do the paranormal entities that you can contact have? Would they be able to, for example, look inside a sealed box, or predict the following weekend's lottery numbers? Something which sounds like a voice on a tape isn't sufficiently paranormal, but these other abilities would be.

A possible protocol might be as follows: a random ten-digit number will be printed out in secret by JREF and sealed inside a metal box. You will contact a paranormal entity and ask it to read out the digits, in the correct order. You and/or any number of experts appointed by you will then interpret the ITC/EVP recordings and specify the ten-digit number which you believe the entity provided. The box is then opened, and if you match on eight or more digits, you've passed.

Even if this isn't acceptable for some reason, it should give the idea of how to avoid having any subjective opinion involved in the pass/fail decision.

 

[The Professor]

I guess you are assuming that all paranormal entities can see inside a sealed metal box in this dimension. Where is that information available?
I'm not sure they can? I haven't tried it.

 

[chillzero]

Perhaps this impasse can be broken by specifying a different paranormal event.

I think it would be more approriate to try and clarify details for the one claim we (almost) have, instead of going off on another completely different track.

 

[The Professor]

I have to say that, as an insufferable pedant myself, I'm seeing a lot of questions being asked and re-asked that have been answered by The Professor. The claim is that he's going to contact a 'paranormal entity' - whether that's a ghost or a faerie or an angel or an earth spirit or what have you is immaterial

The claim is that he's going to contact something and make it sing; or at least speak. These voices will present themselves, if not live, then on the tapes recording the event; ie, EVP.

Everything else is procedural; about how to measure success and to prevent cheating. David's already re-working his application based on feedback here, so hold on a bit and see what he sends to Alison.

This is correct. I am taking the afternoon off to work on this. It seems plain to me and others, but it seems some are still confused. I would appreciate as much help on this subject as I can get. Seems everyone is clouding this with DragonCon and other things when I'm simply trying to make this thing happen, get it right, and not chase rabbits.
Thanks for your help!
Dave

 

[Piggy]

I guess you are assuming that all paranormal entities can see inside a sealed metal box in this dimension. Where is that information available?
I'm not sure they can? I haven't tried it.

Bear with me here....

If you haven't tried this, then why do you think it can be done? That's highly problematic. When people apply for the challenge, it's because they have an ability. I can't recall anyone applying who claims to be able to do something they've never tried.

Also, what exactly is the difference between this feat and any number of variations on the "answer in a sealed envelope" trick?

Finally, what is a "paranormal entity"?

Thanks.

 

[Czarcasm]

Let's see if I have the gist of this, minus the trappings of "Special Chair", "Special Date" and "Specialists" brought in to do all sorts of things.
You are going to do something that will make voices appear from a paranormal source.
Questions:
1. Will these voices be heard by the naked ear, or will electronic equipment be necessary to hear them?
2. Will this require interpretation by experts, or will these words by clear and understandable by anyone who hears them?
3. What will these voices say that will show that they indeed come from a paranormal source?

 

[steenkh]

I guess you are assuming that all paranormal entities can see inside a sealed metal box in this dimension. Where is that information available?
I'm not sure they can? I haven't tried it.

Of course you are right. Your claim is that you can summon the voice of some supernatural being, but have not stated a valid way to determine if you do so. Your claim hinges on the equipment you propose to use, and it is by no means clear why this equipment should be able to record the voices of supernatural beings.

I have already suggested that you concentrate on other aspects of your performance (because that is what you to be setting up), like the language aspects. If you can speak, or get a recording by whatever means, of a language that you could not have known in advance, you would have demonstrated something paranormal that is not dependent on the supposed ability of your equipment to be in contact with the paranormal.

Otherwise you would really have to shift your claim to the equipment: somehow you must prove that the equipment is recording something which it should not be able to, according to normal physics. This is a tough problem for you, as many posters have already pointed out.

 

[jimtron]

Crispy Duck said:

Would they be able to, for example, look inside a sealed box, or predict the following weekend's lottery numbers?

The Professor said:

I guess you are assuming that all paranormal entities can see inside a sealed metal box in this dimension.

Crispy Duck asked you if the entity could look inside a sealed box--he didn't assume that. Professor, the reason he asked is because you seem to be dodging the most important aspect of this--you've been asked repeatedly but not answered: how is this a testable paranormal claim? As has been pointed out, hearing and/or recording disembodied voices isn't proof of the paranormal. The sealed box was brought up because that's one way to prove that there is a paranormal entity present. Do you honestly believe that you can communicate with paranormal entities? If so, how do you know this?

If your paranormal entity can't look inside a sealed box, that's fine, but you need to tell us how you will prove, in a testable way, that there really is a paranormal entity present, and not just a spook show. Why do you keep avoiding this (IMHO) most important point? Are you sure you've carefully read the rules?

 

[Moochie]

Mr. Koenig,

<snip>

As an aside, I have also requested that other JREF staff review the edited/moved posts and see if they conform to the rules of the forum. If they do, they will be replaced.

~Remie

Thanks for that, RemieV -- I was surprised to see my post appear after I'd been told it'd been deleted. I'd overlooked the fact that the thread was moderated and when I realized that it was, I understood why my post hadn't been allowed.

Back on the topic, I'd like to add my voice to the many who have asked TP to explain, in simple English, what it is he's claiming to do that can be considered paranormal, and how it can be tested to the satisfaction of rational-minded, evidence-requiring people, let alone the MDC.


M.

 

[The Professor]

Bear with me here....

If you haven't tried this, then why do you think it can be done? That's highly problematic. When people apply for the challenge, it's because they have an ability. I can't recall anyone applying who claims to be able to do something they've never tried.

Also, what exactly is the difference between this feat and any number of variations on the "answer in a sealed envelope" trick?

Finally, what is a "paranormal entity"?

Thanks.

The question was, had I ever asked a paranormal entity what was in a sealed metal box. I confess, I've never tried that. So what is your problem there?
I have asked other questions and received answers.
That is what I'm going to do. Make Contact!

An Entity that is not Normal, Abnormal, but Paranormal. OK?
Invisible might be one of the attributes you are looking for perhaps?

 

[The Professor]

Let's see if I have the gist of this, minus the trappings of "Special Chair", "Special Date" and "Specialists" brought in to do all sorts of things.
You are going to do something that will make voices appear from a paranormal source.
Questions:
1. Will these voices be heard by the naked ear, or will electronic equipment be necessary to hear them?
2. Will this require interpretation by experts, or will these words by clear and understandable by anyone who hears them?
3. What will these voices say that will show that they indeed come from a paranormal source?

!) Possibly Both. There may also be video imagery.
2) Those who speak the language will easily understand what is said.
3) If the proper steps are taken to avoid trickery, the voices themselves that come from "Nowhere" will themselves be Paranormal. Correct?
The answers to the questions I am asking them will prove their intelligence.

That's the short answer.
I am still working on the task at hand. Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks
Dave

 

[Jackalgirl]

Well, I think part of the problem is that after Crispy Duck said "can they do this?" and we all said, "that's a good idea -- if they can do this, it would be very testable", you post a message accusing us of making assumptions. It's kind of insulting, especially given that several of us are genuinely trying to help you set up a claim that's testable. I'd recommend doing your best to avoid jumping to conclusions like that -- we just asked, as part of an attempt to help you out.

Any thought about my recommendation re: simplifying your claim? If you simply state that answers will appear on audio recordings that cannot be explained by any normal, conventional means, that should do the trick. I can't guarantee that it will, but I imagine that it certainly would be better than claiming that you'll be in contact with "paranormal entities".

 

[Moochie]

<snip>

An Entity that is not Normal, Abnormal, but Paranormal. OK?
Invisible might be one of the attributes you are looking for perhaps?

Pardon me, but you're supposed to tell us what it is you can do. Care to stop waffling and get to the point?


M.

 

[Piggy]

The question was, had I ever asked a paranormal entity what was in a sealed metal box. I confess, I've never tried that. So what is your problem there?
I have asked other questions and received answers.
That is what I'm going to do. Make Contact!

An Entity that is not Normal, Abnormal, but Paranormal. OK?
Invisible might be one of the attributes you are looking for perhaps?

Yes, I know what the other question was, but my questions are these:

If you haven't tried this, then why do you think it can be done? That's highly problematic. When people apply for the challenge, it's because they have an ability. I can't recall anyone applying who claims to be able to do something they've never tried. Have you contacted "paranormal entities" before? If not, why are you claiming you can do so?

What exactly is the difference between this feat and any number of variations on the "answer in a sealed envelope" trick? You say you are going to "make contact", but so far you have not said what you are going to contact or why you think this whatever-it-is may exist and be able to contact you by a particular means, nor laid out out any process for demonstrating that any "paranormal entity" is real. Instead, you appear to be describing a set-up for a magic trick. You claim that you are going to create a stage set-up and do a performance and at the end of it a voice will be heard when a magnetic tape is played, or some such. That is not paranormal.

Again, what is a "paranormal entity"? If you do not know, and you've never contacted one, then it appears you have no history at all of any paranormal ability.

Mind you, these are not questions I ask out of idle curiosity. They are directly pertinent to your potential MDC application and protocol.

 

[jimtron]

An Entity that is not Normal, Abnormal, but Paranormal. OK?

Not OK. If you want to claim paranormal abilities, and keep it vague, you're welcome to do that. But if you want to apply for the MDC, you'll need to abide by the rules, which clearly state that you must SPECIFY a TESTABLE paranormal claim.

You can continue to give us limited, vague details, and we'll continue to ask you to follow the rules and specify your testable paranormal claim. Seeing as this thread has been going on for 8 pages, maybe you should go ahead and specify how the entity can be tested to ensure that it really exists and really is paranormal, or just let us know that you're not interested in applying.

You can't say that you didn't get a fair chance at the challenge if you don't follow the rules and tell us how you have evidence for the paranormal entity. Again, you're the only obstacle from moving forward with the challenge. AFAIK JREF has acknowledged your application, and asked you to clarify how your claim can be objectively tested. So just for the record, you're holding this up, not JREF (AFAIK--and I can't speak for them).

So please tell us how you can prove that the voice or whatever is in fact paranormal, and not someone throwing their voice, or transmitting a voice, etc.

 

[Paul2]

. . . Also, what exactly is the difference between this feat and any number of variations on the "answer in a sealed envelope" trick?

Finally, what is a "paranormal entity"?

The question was, had I ever asked a paranormal entity what was in a sealed metal box. I confess, I've never tried that. So what is your problem there?
I have asked other questions and received answers.
That is what I'm going to do. Make Contact!

An Entity that is not Normal, Abnormal, but Paranormal. OK?
Invisible might be one of the attributes you are looking for perhaps?

Professor, why aren't you answering Piggy's last two, very important, questions? You only answered the last question in *negative* terms: tell us what a paranormal entity *is*, not what it isn't. And, it doesn't matter what attributes Piggy is looking for, it matters what attributes *you* have figured out these paranormal entities have.

It's this lack of direct answers, not just to Piggy's two questions above, that would make any reasonable person doubt you.

 

[fromdownunder]

Invisible might be one of the attributes you are looking for perhaps?

I am not sure that the people responding here are looking for anything in particular, except for you to state exactly what is paranormal about what you are going to do. This is why there has been so much speculation (and I see no evidence of you discouraging this part of the discussion) - because of your apparent refusal to actually say anything about what really matters.

As far as invisible goes, you should be telling us, not asking us. You are the one making the claim. YOU tell US what it is, what it will do, and what is paranormal about the whole situation.

Norm

 

[The Professor]

Let's see if I have the gist of this, minus the trappings of "Special Chair", "Special Date" and "Specialists" brought in to do all sorts of things.
You are going to do something that will make voices appear from a paranormal source.
Questions:
1. Will these voices be heard by the naked ear, or will electronic equipment be necessary to hear them?
2. Will this require interpretation by experts, or will these words by clear and understandable by anyone who hears them?
3. What will these voices say that will show that they indeed come from a paranormal source?

I've answered these earlier but I'm wondering if they went through the moderation? If so please delete this post. or let me know so I can answer them again.
Thanks
Dave

 

[Folly]

The question was, had I ever asked a paranormal entity what was in a sealed metal box. I confess, I've never tried that. So what is your problem there?
I have asked other questions and received answers.
That is what I'm going to do. Make Contact!

An Entity that is not Normal, Abnormal, but Paranormal. OK?
Invisible might be one of the attributes you are looking for perhaps?

I've got the same question a bunch of other people, but I'll ask it in a different way: how do you're know you're not just being pranked by a bored teenager with some fancy radio kit?

 

[Piggy]

I've answered these earlier but I'm wondering if they went through the moderation? If so please delete this post. or let me know so I can answer them again.
Thanks
Dave

Professor:

So far the only thing you have been describing is a set-up for a variation on the "answer in an envelope" trick, except in this version the answer appears on a tape, not on a piece of paper.

You have not claimed to have any paranormal ability, or to have performed any paranormal feats in the past.

As it stands, there are no grounds that I can see for you to participate in the challenge.

If you ever do state what your paranormal ability is ("I can contact a paranormal entity" doesn't cut it) and propose how it may be tested, then there's reason to continue this. Otherwise, I don't see much point.

My personal opinion is that it is your intention to get turned down, but you can easily prove me wrong.