So Now We Know Why the Anti-Palin Effort Was So Desperate

[Upchurch]

I'll admit that I'm now more Anti-Palin than before. (I don't know about "desperate" yet.)

What I saw last night was muddying of facts, the oversimplification of complex situations, and a lot of smearing. Given that and her positions on various issues so far, I now see her as a more refined Bush.

And I am very concerned that Brainster is correct that this is the future of the Republican Party.

 

[Tricky]

The media thought she'd act like a deer caught in the headlights and found out she is more like a polar bear protecting her cubs. She beat on Obama like he was a rented mule.

All in all a great coming out on to the national stage.

Are you kidding? She's a media darling!

And yeah, it is easy to insult at conventions. There's nobody there to disagree with you. Of course, as boloboffin's link showed, she's just a tad challenged when it comes to facts, but that doesn't matter during conventions, Republican or Democratic.

Let's see how she answers genuine, fact-based assaults on her policies and experience. Polar bears are losing ground these days.

 

[BobK]

Are you kidding? She's a media darling!

Maybe you've been away from what we loosely call civilization for the last week. Here is an update. Politico
As to the polar bears supply. My understanding they have gone from about 5000 to about 25000 in the last 30 or so years.

 

[BobK]

Here is a link to one of the 25 debates in 45 days in 2006 when she was running for governor. Volokh Conspiracy
It is of course all about Alaska politics, but i doubt Gaffer Joe Biden is going to hand her her head.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

The media thought she'd act like a deer caught in the headlights and found out she is more like a polar bear protecting her cubs. She beat on Obama like he was a rented mule.

All in all a great coming out on to the national stage.

I feel I should repeat the earlier sentiments.

I could not care less if you were conservative without being paid to (for once).
HOW can you support this woman? Seriously, is party politics (which really should be a fairly worthless term for the US considering how your parties have no clear party policy boundaries) worth so much to you that you would support ANYONE so long as they were a republican? Is political opinion so vital that you would scream and yell for anything right wing?

I'm pretty damn politically stubborn, and I tend to bring politics into anything I see, but that does not mean I would support someone who was politically ideal for me if they were an anti-science, anti-civil liberties lunatic fundementalist. This woman is a NUTTER. WHY are people on here who are, lest I forget, supposedly rational, critical people (JdG et al aside) supporting her?

"Woo hoo! We won the election and...now it's time to say bye bye to science...."

Is it REALLY worth it?

 

[not_so_new]

Maybe you've been away from what we loosely call civilization for the last week. Here is an update. Politico
As to the polar bears supply. My understanding they have gone from about 5000 to about 25000 in the last 30 or so years.

Yeah.. you might want to search for my posts around here on that. The numbers went up because they stopped hunting them but according to all estimates from... you know... scientists and researchers who work with polar bears (not people posting on blogs from Texas) the numbers are far less then they were before the pack ice started to disappear.

It's easy to manipulate numbers when it supports an agenda. When in doubt go to the people who study the subject.

 

[not_so_new]

As far as Palin……

Look, I admit my bias. I am voting for Obama so this might be slanted but I am doing EVERYTHING I can to present an unbiased review.

I think her speech will do wonders for the GOP, it was everything they wanted to hear and in the end that was some, most or all of the point.

But if you take political leaning out of it…… the "words" of the speech were written by someone else. Her delivery of the speech was just plan bad. My partner has a degree in journalism (the same degree that Palin has by the way) and she was cringing at the delivery of the speech. I agree 100%. The delivery was stilted, her voice was grating and shrill (Fran Dresser comes to mind) and she was trying really really hard to put emotion into her words which came across as fake to me and my girlfriend.

I know this will really ignite the GOP base and send their supporters off to tout her as the next big thing in GOP politics but let's be real, was it that good? Hardly. At the end of the day we have some great words written by someone else delivered in a mediocre way.

I agree that she didn't bomb and I think that is why she is getting so much praise right now. Remember "not bombing" and "delivering a GREAT speech" are two completely different things and should not be confused.

 

[David Wong]

Palin could have come out on stage and quietly read from the phonebook and Brainster would still have started an IN YOUR FACE, PALIN CRITICS!!!! thread. To his eyes, everything is golden and wonderful as long as there's an elephant logo on it.

He's just following his programming.

 

[Upchurch]

The delivery was stilted, her voice was grating and shrill (Fran Dresser comes to mind) and she was trying really really hard to put emotion into her words which came across as fake to me and my girlfriend.

Stilted, I will agree with. To some degree, that was due to all the cheering interrupting her. I have to disagree about her voice, though. For whatever it's worth, she has a good speaking voice.

Her presentation was good, but it did feel somewhat like what you'd see in a college debate. Making. Sure. To. Hit. The. Points. And. Don't. Mess. Up. Ocassionally, she would relax and her accent would become more pronounced. Those times seemed the most genuine and they were few.

As I said before, I think Palin is a more refined version of Bush. Compared to what the GOP is used to, she is very definitely an improvement in delivery, if not in content.

 

[Brainster]

Nobody here thought the anti-Palin effort has been just a tad sexist, just a tad shrill? Ben Burch doesn't seem to have flown off his rocker?

Ah well, just my individual confirmation bias acting up again. As you were.

 

[Brainster]

Palin could have come out on stage and quietly read from the phonebook and Brainster would still have started an IN YOUR FACE, PALIN CRITICS!!!! thread. To his eyes, everything is golden and wonderful as long as there's an elephant logo on it.

He's just following his programming.

Yes, and how hard was it to predict this post from David Wong?

My point in the op was not that I was blown away by the speech--that indeed might seem a given, but that several liberal writers were blown away by the speech.

Here's a prediction. I will praise McCain's speech tonight. And David Wong will not critique the speech, but say that "Of course Brainster loved it."

Can I get the million?

 

[BobK]

Does anyone here think Tom Shales could be a closet conservative?

If the Republicans win the presidential election in November, it may well be said that they won it last night -- the night that John McCain's brilliantly screwy choice for a running mate changed from laughingstock to national star.

Snip...

She proved herself in the great arena; that's what counts politically. Nobody could watch that speech and still consider her a joke, no matter how flimsy her credentials and qualifications may seem on paper. The joke, it seems, is on those who'd been laughing at her. Last night the laughing ended -- and the cheering began.

WaPo

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Nobody here thought the anti-Palin effort has been just a tad sexist, just a tad shrill? Ben Burch doesn't seem to have flown off his rocker?

Ah well, just my individual confirmation bias acting up again. As you were.

Ben Burch aside, I think the "Anti Palin effort" has been, generally speaking, fairly well founded in terms of the many, many things that are wrong with her.

I couldn't care less if she's the best speaker in the universe or if she sounds like Joe Pasquale sucking helium and dope, she's STILL a total nutter and you simply CAN'T support her....can you?

 

[Brainster]

"Desperate?"

Really, if there's anything "desperate" in the attacks on Palin, it's the way her supporters here (really, GOP supporters who would feel compelled to defend whoever the candidate happened to be) are trying to simply dismiss any and all criticism by calling it "desperate."

No, any and all criticism of Palin is not desperate.

Hand-wave all you like, it's not going to change the fact that the woman holds a number of policy positions that are completely and totally at odds with the views of the organization sponsoring this website, and by extension the supporters of that organization who post here.

Call the "anti-Palin effort" "desperate" if you like. Palin is still in favor of teaching creationism as science, and I will continue to attack her for it.

The usual exaggeration of Palin's position:

In an interview Thursday, Palin said she meant only to say that discussion of alternative views should be allowed to arise in Alaska classrooms:

"I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."

She added that, if elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum.

So yeah, feel free to set up that strawman and demolish it

Call it "Palin Derangement Syndrome" if you want. Palin is still hostile to civil rights, and I will continue to attack her for it.

Hostile to civil rights? Let me guess, you are not talking about the Civil Rights bill of 1964?

Call it "sexism" if you like. Palin still supports unscientific, counter-productive abstinence-only education, and I will continue to attack her for it

And here is a valid line of attack. You have correctly identified a real position of Sarah Palin's. I did not say all the attacks on Palin were sexist. And I did not say that they were all irrelevant.

 

[Brainster]

Ben Burch aside, I think the "Anti Palin effort" has been, generally speaking, fairly well founded in terms of the many, many things that are wrong with her.

I couldn't care less if she's the best speaker in the universe or if she sounds like Joe Pasquale sucking helium and dope, she's STILL a total nutter and you simply CAN'T support her....can you?

No, of course not. I'm just a robot, remember? Input speech by Republican in this USB port, output mindless praise to monitor.

This is really elevating the discourse.

 

[Ysidro]

Nobody here thought the anti-Palin effort has been just a tad sexist, just a tad shrill? Ben Burch doesn't seem to have flown off his rocker?

Ah well, just my individual confirmation bias acting up again. As you were.

Ben may have jumped off the deep end, but that has little to do with anything other than Ben.

Sexist though? Why, because she's a woman? Do others get to claim all comments against Obama are racist? People have problems with her, for good reasons. I'm sure there are some "OMGBAREFOOTUNDPREGGERS!!!!" folks out there but I'm not seeing it here.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

No, of course not. I'm just a robot, remember? Input speech by Republican in this USB port, output mindless praise to monitor.

This is really elevating the discourse.

I think you misread my post.

Try again for comprehension.

 

[Pookster]

"Desperate?"

Really, if there's anything "desperate" in the attacks on Palin, it's the way her supporters here (really, GOP supporters who would feel compelled to defend whoever the candidate happened to be) are trying to simply dismiss any and all criticism by calling it "desperate."

Hand-wave all you like, it's not going to change the fact that the woman holds a number of policy positions that are completely and totally at odds with the views of the organization sponsoring this website, and by extension the supporters of that organization who post here.

Call the "anti-Palin effort" "desperate" if you like. Palin is still in favor of teaching creationism as science, and I will continue to attack her for it.

Call it "Palin Derangement Syndrome" if you want. Palin is still hostile to civil rights, and I will continue to attack her for it.

Call it "sexism" if you like. Palin still supports unscientific, counter-productive abstinence-only education, and I will continue to attack her for it.

Call it whatever you like. I don't want Palin, or anyone who shares her political positions, to be in any political position higher than dogcatcher. I don't want to live in her grand vision of America - where students are given a substandard Bible-based education, where women do not have control over their own destinies, where homosexuals are criminalized and relegated to third-class citizens.

As long as she holds these positions, you're going to see her attacked, ridiculed, and lambasted as the fundamentalist theocrat-wannabe that she is.

That's just the way it is. Deal with it.


ETA: If she is the future of the Republican Party, then I can only agree with the Log Cabin Republicans, who say that the Republican Party is "on the wrong side of history."

Excellent post. And, I nominated it as well.

 

[Cleon]

No, any and all criticism of Palin is not desperate.

...just the criticism that's actually expressed.

The usual exaggeration of Palin's position:


So yeah, feel free to set up that strawman and demolish it

Yeah, here's my "exaggeration" and "strawman:"

"Intelligent design in my view is plausible and credible and something that should be taught." - Sarah Palin

You don't get to spin your way out of that one. Sorry.

Hostile to civil rights? Let me guess, you are not talking about the Civil Rights bill of 1964?

I regard anyone who thinks a certain group of people should have their rights limited to be hostile to civil rights. Whether that group is African-Americans, Jews, gypsies, or homosexuals.

I'm weird like that.

And here is a valid line of attack. You have correctly identified a real position of Sarah Palin's. I did not say all the attacks on Palin were sexist. And I did not say that they were all irrelevant.

Nor did I claim you did.

But you dismiss the criticisms of Palin with similar hand-waving about "desperation," and the "sexist" meme has definitely been making the GOP talking points rounds.

 

[not_so_new]

I feel I should repeat the earlier sentiments.

I could not care less if you were conservative without being paid to (for once).
HOW can you support this woman? Seriously, is party politics (which really should be a fairly worthless term for the US considering how your parties have no clear party policy boundaries) worth so much to you that you would support ANYONE so long as they were a republican? Is political opinion so vital that you would scream and yell for anything right wing?

I'm pretty damn politically stubborn, and I tend to bring politics into anything I see, but that does not mean I would support someone who was politically ideal for me if they were an anti-science, anti-civil liberties lunatic fundementalist. This woman is a NUTTER. WHY are people on here who are, lest I forget, supposedly rational, critical people (JdG et al aside) supporting her?

"Woo hoo! We won the election and...now it's time to say bye bye to science...."

Is it REALLY worth it?

I could not agree more. Is it worth it to just say "GREAT, we won an election?" How blind can we be as a society?

If you want to argue economics that’s cool. The Democrats batting average over the last 60 years shows that they handle the economy as good as (better actually) than the GOP. If you want to talk about "social values" we can agree to disagree about homosexuals, health care, immigration and the like.

But if you want to talk about education and science it's really hard to vote Republican.

It is shocking to me how many people vote for "a party" and against their own interests. It's FAR easier to scare people with boogie men than it is to sell policies. "The Democrats are going to raise our taxes" or "the Democrats are going to impose a death tax" or "the Democrats are going to attack god" or "the Democrats are trying to let in all the foreigners to take over our nation" and many more, all boogie men.

If you care about education, science, pork barrel spending, experience or international relations Palin should disgust you like she does me. I didn't like McCain before, I am SCARED for my country now.