The FBI Has No Record of Any Evidence of the 4 Flights Used on 9/11

Any other 757s or 767s missing that day RedIbis? Or maybe some were manufactured in secret that nobody knows about?
 
Again, the FBI has no record of the investigation that identified the four flights.
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Why should the FBI have created a case file to identify the aircraft? United Airlines confirmed the identity of their aircraft within minutes of the two crashes, American Airlines was slower but still had confirmed the identity of the planes within a hour. UA nearly when backrupt because of 9/11, they were in trouble prior to 9/11 but the downturn after saw them have to turn to shareholders to bail them out. AA DID go bankrupt after 9/11. Both Airlines were refused Govt help to prevent them going bankrupt. If the planes were not AA 11, AA 77, UA175 and UA93, why would the Airlines have conformed they were? They have systems on board all their flights that tell where the flight is and how the systems on board are working, ewhen the plane lifts off, and when it lands, as well as allowing some very basic 2-way communications ability. These systems have been in place since the 1980's and people across the US regularly listen in on them. On top of that staff on the planes contacted their Airlines and told them what was happening.

AA 11, AA 77, UA175 and UA93 all took off, they were tracked by Radar on the FAA screens from take off to crash point in 3 of the 4 cases, and the fourth one's radar tracking is shown on reconstructed Radar plots when all the systems are used not just the primary plots. The passanger DNA and personal items were found at all 3 of the crash sites. The Data recorders for AA 77 and UA 93 were found along with the voice recorder from 93 which has been played to family members.

Where is the conspriacy over what planes were involved? Where is the need to do a detailed investigation into what the planes were? UA and AA state catagorically that their planes were crashed at the WTC, Pentagon, and Shanksville. Are they lying about that?
 
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Profanz said:
Um, so where is it? The data that is hunter. Is it your hobby to track and decrypt such things? Good. Let's see it.
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As stated above both UA and AA reported the flight numbers of the crashed planes within an hour of the crashes (77 taking the longest due to AA's regulations on dealing with crashes.) Where they lying?
 
PhantomWolf said:
As stated above both UA and AA reported the flight numbers of the crashed planes within an hour of the crashes (77 taking the longest due to AA's regulations on dealing with crashes.) Where they lying?
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Hey Phantom? Don't ask me a question if you're not going to answer mine. If you or your friend want to bring up the data as some kind of proof of something then produce the data and produce it for all four flights.

But before you even attempt to do so (not that you will) maybe someone here should answer RedIbis first now that this thread is five pages.
 
Profanz said:
Hey Phantom? Don't ask me a question if you're not going to answer mine. If you or your friend want to bring up the data as some kind of proof of something then produce the data and produce it for all four flights.

But before you even attempt to do so (not that you will) maybe someone here should answer RedIbis first now that this thread is five pages.
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Since your question wasn't aimed at me, why should I answer it?

Regardless. In all the crashes it was the Airlines that identified the planes. UA had contacted the FAA within 20 minutes of the last crash to inform them of Flight 93's position and that it had crashed. Whether they want to release the way they knew that, ACARS or another system, is entirely up to them, it is information owned by UA and as a private company they have no responsiblilty to release it to me, you or anyone else. The fact is however, that they contacted the FAA and reported the crash. You don't believe them so again, were they lying when they told the FAA that 93 had crashed near Shanksville? Where they lying about UA 175 hitting the WTC 10 minutes after it did? What about AA? They reported Flight 11 as having crashed into the WTC about 40 mins after it did. It took nearly an hour to report flight 77 as having been the plane that hit the Pentagon because they were still working flight 11 and their systems went into lock down. Still in each case it was the Airlines that identified and reported the crash by flight number. Were they lying? Why should the FBI have created a file about how the aircraft where identified when it was by the Airline telling the FAA?
 
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Profanz, if I did post it, you'd just handwave it away as planted or faked, or completely ignore it, because that's all you can do.

The identities of the four planes crashed on 9/11 are not now, nor have they ever been, in doubt. Nor have the identities of the 200 or so people who died on those planes.
 
jhunter1163 said:
Profanz, if I did post it, you'd just handwave it away as planted or faked, or completely ignore it, because that's all you can do.

The identities of the four planes crashed on 9/11 are not now, nor have they ever been, in doubt. Nor have the identities of the 200 or so people who died on those planes.
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Oh don't worry about what I would do. AS if you care what I think or say. There are more then a few people reading this and most of them on your side so just post it for them and your beliefs. Can you?
 
PhantomWolf said:
Since your question wasn't aimed at me, why should I answer it?

Regardless. In all the crashes it was the Airlines that identified the planes. UA had contacted the FAA within 20 minutes of the last crash to inform them of Flight 93's position and that it had crashed. Whether they want to release the way they knew that, ACARS or another system, is entirely up to them, it is information owned by UA and as a private company they have no responsiblilty to release it to me, you or anyone else. The fact is however, that they contacted the FAA and reported the crash. You don't believe them so again, were they lying when they told the FAA that 93 had crashed near Shanksville? Where they lying about UA 175 hitting the WTC 10 minutes after it did? What about AA? They reported Flight 11 as having crashed into the WTC about 40 mins after it did. It took nearly an hour to report flight 77 as having been the plane that hit the Pentagon because they were still working flight 11 and their systems went into lock down. Still in each case it was the Airlines that identified and reported the crash by flight number. Were they lying? Why should the FBI have created a file about how the aircraft where identified when it was by the Airline telling the FAA?
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Regardless. That's a big word in your world isn't it? If it's regardless then don't bring it up.
 
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Profanz, please make a point. All you're doing is being abusive.

Well, actually, also hostile and non-responsive.

ETA: Also Profanz, please do your own research. Go investigate the flights. Don't expect others to do your homework. Thanks.
 
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Profanz,

You seem to think that unless we can provide the exact evidence that UA and AA used to determine their planes had crashed then there can't have been an identification. This isn't true, they told the FAA which planes were involved. If you really want to know how, why ask us, why not ask them? The fact still remains that within a hour of each crash the two airlines had identified both the crash sites and the flights involved. By demanding more, are you claiming that those working for these two airlines lied to the FAA when they identified their planes?
 
SDC said:
Profanz, please make a point. All you're doing is being abusive.

Well, actually, also hostile and non-responsive.

ETA: Also Profanz, please do your own research. Go investigate the flights. Don't expect others to do your homework. Thanks.
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I'm abusive and not responsive because I asked for what was offered up as proof of something?

Does that usually work for you and your denial? Good for you.
 
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Considering that each aircraft in an airline's fleet represents a rather expensive capital investment, one would think the airlines would be quite good at keeping track of where those capital investments are and what is happening with them.
 
PhantomWolf said:
Profanz,

You seem to think that unless we can provide the exact evidence that UA and AA used to determine their planes had crashed then there can't have been an identification. This isn't true, they told the FAA which planes were involved. If you really want to know how, why ask us, why not ask them? The fact still remains that within a hour of each crash the two airlines had identified both the crash sites and the flights involved. By demanding more, are you claiming that those working for these two airlines lied to the FAA when they identified their planes?
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You seem to think that if you offer up something as evidence of how you came to your beliefs about 9/11 that you don't need to produce that something.

You forget. I don't live in your head.
 
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Corsair 115 said:
Considering that each aircraft in an airline's fleet represents a rather expensive capital investment, one would think the airlines would be quite good at keeping track of where those capital investments are and what is happening with them.
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Why? They get bailed out if they get in financial trouble. In fact they all got bailed out even if they were hijacked on 9/11 or not. And for much more then what a plane costs. And they were the ones who supposedly failed to stop these guys and their weapons from getting on the planes.
 
RedIbis said:
These documents state quite clearly that the FBI "doesn't have any records regarding the above requested information."
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Please advise which document, specifically, you cherrypicked that line from. Thanks in advance.
 
Profanz said:
You seem to think that if you offer up something as evidence of how you came to your beliefs about 9/11 that you don't need to produce that something.

You forget. I don't live in your head.
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It doesn't have anything to do with living in my head. This thread is about why the FBI has no case file on how the planes were identified. The FBI say that there is no file because the identity of the planes was never in doubt. Why not? Because the Airlines identified them virtually immediately after each crash. There is no need to produce anything after that, the FBI have accepted the Airlines indentification of the planes and so never investigated it themselves. Further they added that subsequent evidence found during the crash investigation provided confirmation of the identities, but that that file was being withheld due to possible court proceedings.

I still can't find your issues here. Either you don't believe that the Airlines where telling the truth when they informed the FAA or... well what? It doesn't matter how the Airlines knew when they identified the planes, what matters is that they did identify the planes.

Now if you want to make the case that the planes weren't the planes the Aitlines say they were, well your first step is to say that the Airlines lied, but since it's obvious you are trying to avoid that at all cost, where are you going?

Why? They get bailed out if they get in financial trouble. In fact they all got bailed out even if they were hijacked on 9/11 or not. And for much more then what a plane costs. And they were the ones who supposedly failed to stop these guys and their weapons from getting on the planes.
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Buuuzt, INCORRECT, but thank you for playing. American Airlines was Bankrupted in 2003 after the US Govt refused to deal with a rescue package. United Airlines was also refused Govt help and had to beg their shareholders to come up with the money required to prevent bankrupcy.
 
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Profanz said:
Why?
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Reread my post. It's stated quite clearly.

Profanz said:
They get bailed out if they get in financial trouble.
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Yeah, I guess that's why Pan Am, TWA, Eastern, ATA, Midway, SkyValue, ValuJet, and Independence Air are all still flying. Oh, wait, they aren't. Here's the Wikipedia page for defunct U.S. airlines. There are even more defunct airlines if you start counting those outside the United States. (Zoom just filed for bankruptcy a few days ago; Jetsgo and Canada 3000 ceased operations several years ago, etc.)

Profanz said:
And they were the ones who supposedly failed to stop these guys and their weapons from getting on the planes.
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Perhaps you should consider the difference between domestic flights, which all of the 9/11 flights were, and international flights. Prior to 9/11 the former never had the same kind of security screening that the latter had.

Heck, even international flights between the U.S. and Canada did not have particularly stringent security screening in the years prior to 2001. The only identification requirements for such flights back then was a driver's license and a birth certificate. (This is not the case anymore as a passport is now required when flying into the U.S. from Canada - this was part of the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative.)
 
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As an aside, did anyone else catch this particular distortion of fact by Monaghan:

He wrote an e-mail message to the NTSB asking, without reference to any particular aircraft, and without mention of the aircrafts hijacked on 9/11:

Monaghan said:
Will the NTSB refer to recovered aircraft component serial number data to determine the positive ID of an aircraft following a mishap, in the absence of other identifying data? [my italics]
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The NTSB responded:

NTSB representative said:
Yes. NTSB investigators rarely encounter a scenario when the identity is not apparent. But during those occasions, investigators will record serial numbers of major components, and then contact the manufacturer of those components in an attempt to determine what aircraft the component was installed upon. [my italics]
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Monaghan then characterizes that e-mail exchange as evidence that the NTSB did, in fact, document serial numbers of the aircrafts hijacked on 9/11:

Monaghan in his motion for injunction said:
By...e-mail reply provided by N.T.S.B. to a public correspondence e-mail, it is indicated that the aircraft identification assistance provided by N.T.S.B. to defendant F.B.I. involved documenting "serial numbers of major components" contained by [sic] wreckage recovered by defendant F.B.I..
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Tsk, tsk.
 
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