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Vaccine Whackos: Parents on the Run

Eos of the Eons said:
I just see so many people harping about the "health freedom" rights nowadays, that I want them to suffer the consequences of their stupidity anymore.
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Why should the children have to suffer a chronic and life-threatning illness just because their parents are idiots?

It's not the parents who will suffer here, even if the child dies. It would simply be "god's will", or they'll find some other way to blame it on the evil "allopaths" or toxins in the environment, or any number of other justifications why it isn't their fault.

Ultimately, it's the children, not the parents, who will suffer the worst.
Until people suffer the consequences of making "allopathy" out to be evil, then parents will feel safer with the consequences of preventable diseases. It's the alt medders and clergy that should be sued for their claims that cause the parents to run. If they weren't freaking parents out, then the parents wouldn't be running.
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If parents didn't buy into this garbage, the sCAMmers would die out for lack of a market for their garbage.
 
sCAMmmers are VERY convincing. It seems they are allowed to say whatever they want to and get away with it, including slandering MDs. I have to wonder why they get away with it. People are dying, and the sCAMmmers are making billions. Looking at the stink our Bill C-51 got in Canada here, I can see why. They are great at marketing and it's not illegal to kill people for some reason. Crazy world we live in. I have given up caring about the consequences until people stop whining when something tries to get done about it. Not enough people have been hurt yet, apparently.

Only a few thousand dead, that's all:
http://whatstheharm.net/

3,247 people killed
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Here's one about children and religion:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/101/4/625
 
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Anti-vaccer letter in the SMH today, taking a "just different worldviews" angle. Exhaustive research, positively exhaustive!!

Give open debate a shot

As a mother of two unvaccinated children, I have watched with interest the debate about parent versus child rights when it comes to vaccination.

We need to have this debate publicly and fairly. I have been lectured and berated by numerous medical professionals about my decision to not vaccinate. These people have never asked my reasons; they just jump on the same scare campaign as Professor Isaacs and the Federal Government.

I have done exhaustive research to make my decision, as have many other conscientious objectors. Our decision by all means should be questioned, but should above all be respected.

Actions such as court orders make parents scared and silent instead of joining in the debate.

Justine Baker Randwick
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http://whatstheharm.net/vaccinedenial.html

Interesting side effect that happened when a mother is convinced vaccination caused her child's autism:

Influenced by those who believe childhood vaccines might cause autism, Katie's mother felt extreme guilt over vaccinating the autistic child. This led to a depression, and the death of the child at her mother's hands...
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See, the parents in the OP don't want to feel guilt about aluminum, so they are running around with a guilt-free conscience even though they should feel like chit since their kid is at risk of contracting hepatitis. Nuts. Antivaccine folks don't care though, they will keep on harping to parents about not vaccinating kids.

More needs to be done to educate people, starting in the schools, but that's not going to happen, cuz science is teh EVIL. So, parents will continue being educated by the folks hell bent on educating them to sCAMmmer point of views. Yeah, our society is awesome.

My kids are going to write essays about how vaccines actually work, but many home-schooled kids are just going to learn how "unnatural" they are how they somehow cause autism, even though aluminum poisoning (causes anemia, bone softening, nausea, vomiting, kidney failure, but no neurological signs reported in actual cases-aluminum was found in blood) doesn't look at all like autism. If you actually have actual aluminum poisoning, which is extremely rare since it takes a LOT to poison a person, then mortality is estimated at 99-100%.

A quick google, and you can read a whole lot of bulloney about aluminum though.
 
nettiemoore said:
Anti-vaccer letter in the SMH today, taking a "just different worldviews" angle. Exhaustive research, positively exhaustive!!
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I guess it would be exhausting to read all those internet sites. There's more bull on the internet about vaccines than anything else that a layperson could read or find interesting. Dump the same parent in front of a biology book, and watch them fall asleep. There's just nothing in there to catch their attention the way Mercola and Whale To does.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
I guess it would be exhausting to read all those internet sites. There's more bull on the internet about vaccines than anything else that a layperson could read or find interesting. Dump the same parent in front of a biology book, and watch them fall asleep. There's just nothing in there to catch their attention the way Mercola and Whale To does.
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How could anyone find human biology boring?

I think when most people say they find human biology 'boring' they really mean 'difficult to understand'.

As for vaccination, the problem IMO seems to be people struggle to reasonably estimate the ratio of two very small numbers and include wildly inaccurate estimates for individual risk factors. E.g.,

(Average risk of serious side effects from vaccination * individual risk factors relevant to vaccination) : (Average risk of serious effects of non-vaccination * individual risk factors relevant to non-vaccination)

In another thread I found some links to web pages which were looking at alternative ways to convey risk to patients and how culture can affect an individual's perception of risk.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
It's their kid. They aren't starving it, or beating it. I don't agree with it, and would argue it until blue in the face. Getting the law involved is stupid though. Like I said, it just gives people like them a voice and a platform to play victim. Ignore their stupid choices, and let them suffer the consequences. Don't splay it all over the news.
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So freedom to ignore medical care for your children is then a right?

They don't even have religion as an excuse.
 
jdp said:
In general, I would also prefer the law not to get involved. But, at what point does this transcend to child endangerment? I mean from time to time you hear about Christian Scientists refusing life saving medical treatment for their children, preferring to pray for their recovery, and if and when the state or county finds out they step right in. Perhaps this situation is a bit different as there is no immediate need but where would that line be?
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I believe in the US that in most states the state can not step in, and can only charge the parents with manslaughter as a deterant. And in 5 they can not even do that, as long as the medical care was denied for religious reasons you are free to neglect your childs medical care to their death, provided you do it for religious reasons and not the secular reasons stated by this couple.
 
(roll forward 21 years)
PARENTS ON THE RUN FROM LAWERS

"I was robbed," says child of the fugitives. "It's bad enough having a wacko for a mum but she didn't have to give me Hepatitis-B as well."
 
Nach. Kid will become yet another quack who revels in telling the tale of how he escaped being poisoned by vaccines by his courageous parents. He will assure other parents that he is managing his hepatitis with homeopathic brews without even realizing that his liver is barely hardly hanging in there anymore, as things always are expected to be getting worse before they get better.
 
Ivor the Engineer:
I think parents should be required to seek and to follow (to the best of their ability) competant medical advice for their children. Since there is very little chance of this law being put into effect, I haven't sorted out all the tangles, but yes, that would include things like not bothering to change habits when children are pre-diabetic, as well as refusing insulin once they become diabetic. I would not accept religion as an excuse.

Doctors are already required to report it when they believe child abuse is going on, and that "snitching" has not done any damage to the reputation of the field. Teachers are required to report it as well, (at least, in California), but no one says, "oh, don't send your kid to school! The teachers are all snitches!"
 
hm. Yeah, but teachers aren't in cahoots with big pharma, doncha know. Well, some are, with head shrinkers, but that's another topic...
One must home-school sheltered kids and never let em see an MD. Then all will be right with the world. If you don't believe me, then just saunter off to any parenting board and learn whatcha need to know.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/forumdisplay.php?f=47
 
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Frankly, I think homeschooling is a good legal compromise in the case of vaccinations. Ideally, I'd want vaccinations to be mandatory across the board unless medically inadvisable, but in terms of a legal compromise, I think a good start would be mandatory vaccination if you want your kid in a public school. It's not a great solution, since Johnny Homeschool can still play with Susie Publicschool from down the street, and thus mingle the populations, but it's a good starting place.
 
I realize my two posts seem to contradict each other. To clarify: the first post talks about what I'd like to have happen (my philosophical point of view); the second talks about what might actually happen. Given that it's unlikely that anyone is going to make laws explicitly requiring parents to seek and follow medical advice, any tightening of vaccination loopholes is, in my opinion, a good tightening.
 
Well, with all the exemption advice at the linked site in my post, you don't have to home school to avoid vaccination. You can share ideas and paranioa on parenting boards. Whee! Tightening loopholes will only make em even more paranoid.
 
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