The FBI Has No Record of Any Evidence of the 4 Flights Used on 9/11

RedIbis

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RedIbis
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I encourage the debunking community to explain to me what this document means. As I read it, the FBI has no record of any evidence associated with the four flights used in the terrorist attacks.

I expect this to be debunked and sources posted that show where such evidence exists.

http://911blogger.com/node/17363

The following is a statement by the Section Chief of the Record/lnformation Dissemination Section ("RlDS") of the FBI regarding the unsuccessful search for records or facsimiles of records, pertaining the 4 aircraft identified by the FBI and NTSB as being used during terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 or wreckage generated by them, including 2 flight data recorders. This statement is a defense exhibit for use in an upcoming oral arguments hearing pertaining to a federal court case for records for the 4 aircraft used during the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.
 
RedIbis said:
I expect this to be debunked and sources posted that show where such evidence exists.
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And I expect you to actually read your own article before implying that it supports your insanity.
 
Maybe the search function does not go back 5 or 6 year when that conspiracy argument was popular.
 
David M. Harvey said:
The case agent stated that since the identities of the four hijacked aircraft have never been in question by the FBI, NTSB or FAA (evidence collected after September 11, 2001 has corroborated the fact that American Airlines Flight 11, United Airlines Flight 175, American Airlines Flight 77 and United Flight 93 were the aircraft hijacked), no records would have been generated responsive to plaintiffs request for documents.
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Red, I know how seriously you guys take this stuff. Sometimes I almost have sympathy for you. But please, listen carefully. Take it to heart:

To non-crazy people, that explanation makes perfect sense.
 
Only a few morons don't know which airplanes were used by terrorist on 9/11.

Dolts will go to court and expose their ignorance. Cool

Proof of the planes:
DNA
Radar Data
... I will let RedIbis add some proof of which planes were used to prove RedIbis is an effective researcher. Gee RedIbis found this, why can't RedIbis prove to RedIbis which planes were used? Has education gone this far down the tubes for some, what happen to no child left behind? Are they all in 9/11 truth?
 
You also have to realize that document discusses two requests:

Plaintiff's original FOIA request sought "documentation pertaining to any formally and positively identified debris" from the aircraft used in the September 11th attacks. In response to this request, RIDS personnel at FBIHQ understood that any potentially responsive records would have been compiled for law enforcement purposes and would be located in a pending file because of an ongoing law enforcement investigation. RIDS personnel therefore determined that any records would be withheld in their entirety pursuant to 5 U.S.C. § 552(b)(7)(A).
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The first request, that asked for the actual evidence, was essentially refused because "any records would be withheld in their entirety pursuant to 5 U.S.C. § 552(b)(7)(A)".


The FBI then received a copy of plaintiff's complaint for injunctive relief, later amended, wherein plaintiff requested the FBI to "produce agency records, concerning documentation revealing the process by which wreckage recovered by defendant, from the aircraft used during the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, was positively identified by defendant (with the aid of the National Transportation Safety Board) as belonging to the said aircraft, presumably through the use of unique serial number identifying information contained by the said aircraft wreckage, that was collected by defendant and which defendant has improperly withheld from plaintiff." In response to this request, RlDS conducted a search for potentially responsive records at FBIHQ on February 11, 2008.
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Note that this second request was for "...documentation revealing the process by which wreckage recovered by defendant ... was positively identified by defendant..." That is, they wanted any records that detailed the procedures that were to be followed. It is this documentation that is missing/never existed/whatever. I'm not sure if such documentation should exist, but let's at least argue about the correct problem.
 
It would seem the NTSB and the FBI felt that positive identification was not necessary. ( or as it was pointed out in a previous post, the documentation is being with held or the FOIA request was denied)

The NSTB was there to investigate a plane crash not a crime. So I am assuming that to the NTSB the identity of the plane was not as important as the crash itself. The FBI, on the other hand, investigates crimes. And if I am not mistaken there is a body of circumstantial evidence that lead to the identification the aircraft. The radar contact info, the transponder telemetry before it was shut off, the FDRs, DNA identification of the remains, personal artifacts of the passengers, the type of aircraft that the debris belonged to, etc. Under the circumstances, there was no reason to believe that the aircraft was anything but what it appeared to be. Is there? Or is it simply a "we can't trust the lieing government fer nuthin'" sort of argument?

In light of this there is also the fact that the passengers and the aircraft in question has yet to turn up anywhere else.
 
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RedIbis said:
I encourage the debunking community to explain to me what this document means. As I read it, the FBI has no record of any evidence associated with the four flights used in the terrorist attacks.

I expect this to be debunked and sources posted that show where such evidence exists.
Click to expand...

Why don't you do your own research for a change? Sign up for an account at PACER and read all of the documents for yourself, post them in their entirety, and then ask others to explain the parts that you don't understand. That would be a far more honest approach than simply linking to a post of one segment of one document out of the 37 items on the docket report and saying that you "expect" your poor interpretation of that one segment of the document to be "debunked and sources posted" etc.

Here, I'll even help you in your quest for "truth": go to PACER here, register to gain access to its databases, then go to the U.S. Party/Case Index link (which you can go to directly here), click on "Civil", then use the drop-down menu at the top to select Nevada, then on the line for the case number, type 2:2007cv01614 (just like that without spaces) and then hit "enter". Then, click on the link under the case number, and then click on "docket report". Then, browse through the documents to your heart's content, save them and post them once you've read them. Then report back with any questions you have once you've actually read them.

That would at least demonstrate that you are willing to do actual research yourself instead of simply parroting something that you have read on a conspiracy fantasy site, and instead of demanding that others "debunk" your take on the incomplete document cited there, and instead of demanding that others provide sources to refute your unfounded interpretation of that partial document.

Your interpretation that "the FBI has no record of any evidence associated with the four flights used in the terrorist attacks" is silly; it is not even supported by the partial document to which you linked, and it certainly is not supported by reality.
 
Well Red, Agent Harvey of the FBI has explained it....

The case agent stated that since the identities of the four hijacked aircraft have never been in question by the FBI, NTSB or FAA (evidence collected after September 11, 2001 has corroborated the fact that American Airlines Flight 11, United Airlines Flight 175, American Airlines Flight 77 and United Flight 93 were the aircraft hijacked), no records would have been generated responsive to plaintiffs request for documents.
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which is very explanatory of the planes existence.
Unfortunately, truthers only see the bolded part above.

ETA: Red, if you assume there were no planes, why haven't you searched the sources who did find plane parts and challenge their evidence?
 
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Oh, dear, I forgot to put Red Ibis back on ingore. :(

In the meantime, here's a visual aid for the reading impared.

 
It's kinda funny. The FBI is saying that they haven't spent the money and resource to compile public documentation to name the planes used in the event because they see no reason why anyone could possibly want to know that since pretty much everyone already knows. But they aren't aware of a fringe group of people who don't want to believe the planes were what they were and think the government is covering it up, but then go to the government to ask the identities.

As if if they had faxed a sheet of paper with the identities of the planes on it Red would suddenly say "Oh, looks like those WERE the planes".
 
RedIbis said:
I encourage the debunking community to explain to me what this document means. As I read it, the FBI has no record of any evidence associated with the four flights used in the terrorist attacks.
Click to expand...

Well you misread the document, Truther:

"evidence collected after September 11, 2001 has corroborated the fact that American Airlines Flight 11, United Airlines Flight 175, American Airlines Flight 77 and United Flight 93 were the aircraft hijacked"

Whoops! Did you miss this part, Truther?
 
I'd like to point out something that I've never seen mentioned previously. Perhaps it has been and I've missed it. Oh well.....

The NTSB and the USAF (as well as Foreign Aircraft Investigative Agencies) record serial numbers for some parts in accident investigations, NOT for aircraft identification (as that is usually known), but in order to research maintenance time change parts and/or defective parts that could be the cause of the accident.

In other words, let's say an aircraft crashes on final approach and witnesses describe a sharp right bank prior to a dive and impact. Investigators would naturally zoom in on flight control components as one of the possible causes. Therefore, the flight control actuators and related components would be scrutinized very closely. The serial numbers would be recorded in order to determine if there were parts involved that should have been changed, but weren't, or if parts from a previous accident from the same manufacturer or same lot number might have been defective. This would also allow an inspection of a fleet of aircraft which might have these same parts for possible similar defects.

There are multiple ways to identify aircraft and it doesn't necessarily have to be with serial numbered parts. This has been pointed out in every thread on this issue.

I believe this garbage originated from Col. George Nelson who deceptively pointed this out some years ago in a very misleading manner. Of course, troofers have picked up on it as evidence of a cover up and consider it a "gotcha" for gaining Interwebz Forum debate points.

All of this only proves that the NTSB did not conduct an "accident" investigation for obvious reasons. It proves absolutely nothing else at all.
 
Well considering that it has always been that the Airlines identified which planes had been involved right from the word go, well within an hour anyway cause AA was a bit slow at telling the FAA, then either they were in on it or the planes were the ones they said they were.
 
I think this is a situation where you need to contact a higher authority. Red, have you submitted a request to the ministry of silly walks?
 
SO now United Airlines and American Airlines are in on the cover up Red? I mean if there was any doubt, ANY doubt about which planes were involved, don't you think that those airlines would express as much...unless they were involved. lied to the passenger families, lied to the general public.

Think about it. They are missing an airliner, complete with serial numbers, tail number, etc... Now they have either (A) correctly reported the missing plane, or (B) have lied about which plane was lost...SIMPLE AS THAT!!!

Are we really even discussing this **** again, in 2008??

TAM:)
 
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uruk said:
It would seem the NTSB and the FBI felt that positive identification was not necessary. ( or as it was pointed out in a previous post, the documentation is being with held or the FOIA request was denied)
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Since this is at the heart of the issue, let me just express how absolutely absurd it is that the so called skeptics can so easily accept this. The identity of the aircraft was not in question so there was no need to investigate the flights?

Add this to the list of destroyed steel, destroyed FAA tapes, and now the FBI doesn't even make copies of its source records. How is any terrorist associated with the planning of the attacks ever going to get convicted in trial?
 
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