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Do Most Atheists Know that science..... Part 2

I’ll add another creation myth to Hokulele’s fine example, with apologies for its length. This comes from the Hopi. My comments are bracketed in red.

The Four Creations

The world at first was endless space in which existed only the Creator, Taiowa. This world had no time, no shape, and no life, except in the mind of the Creator. [We start inside the Plank dimensions] Eventually the infinite creator created the finite in Sotuknang [Big Bang], whom he called his nephew and whom he created as his agent to establish nine universes. [The nine spatial dimensions of string theory] Sotuknang gathered together matter from the endless space to make the nine solid worlds. [Solar system formation] Then the Creator instructed him to gather together the waters from the endless space and place them on these worlds to make land and sea. [Earth forms] When Sotuknang had done that, the Creator instructed him to gather together air to make winds and breezes on these worlds. [Atmosphere forms]

The fourth act of creation with which the Creator charged Sotuknang was the creation of life. Sotuknang went to the world that was to first host life and there he created Spider Woman, and he gave her the power to create life. First Spider Woman took some earth and mixed it with saliva to make two beings. Over them she sang the Creation Song, and they came to life. [Life forms from organic compounds] She instructed one of them, Poqanghoya, to go across the earth and solidify it. [Volcanic activity diminishes] She instructed the other, Palongawhoya, to send out sound to resonate through the earth, so that the earth vibrated with the energy of the Creator. [I’ll think of something] Poqanghoya and Palongawhoya were despatched to the poles of the earth to keep it rotating. [Wow. They knew the earth rotated. And that the period changed. Bonus points.]

Then Spider Woman made all the plants, the flowers, the bushes, and the trees. Likewise she made the birds and animals, again using earth and singing the Creation Song. When all this was done, she made human beings, using yellow, red, white, and black earth mixed with her saliva. [Pretty correct sequencing] Singing the Creation Song, she made four men, and then in her own form she made four women. At first they had a soft spot in their foreheads, and although it solidified, it left a space through which they could hear the voice of Sotuknang and their Creator. [Evolution of frontal lobes, maybe.] Because these people could not speak, Spider Woman called on Sotuknang, who gave them four languages. [Evolution of language] His only instructions were for them to respect their Creator and to live in harmony with him.

These people spread across the earth and multiplied. [African diaspora] Despite their four languages, in those days they could understand each other's thoughts anyway, and for many years they and the animals lived together as one. Eventually, however, they began to divide, both the people from the animals and the people from each other, as they focused on their differences rather than their similarities. [We go from tribes to clans to larger social structures.]

Eventually a worldwide catastrophe (fire, not flood), and shenanigans with ants, and I’m sure I could think up what that all meant, but the important point is...

Same essentially correct sequence.

The amazing similarity of Creation and science sequences confirms that from a scientific statistical point of view, the likelihood that the Bible could have been faked is probably far less than one in a million. That's a compelling statistically valid proof that the Bible MUST be what it claims to be, inspired by God himself!
Keep dreaming, DOC's website.
 
from Ryan's commentary said:
She instructed the other, Palongawhoya, to send out sound to resonate through the earth, so that the earth vibrated with the energy of the Creator. [I’ll think of something]


String theory is true!

ETA: Whoops, sorry. They are talking about the creation of life rather than a gravitational singularity. Hmm, how about, cometary impacts triggering abiogensis is true!
 
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Here are some things a little meatier from someone with a degree in physics from the University of Chicago.

The title of the article is "Genesis and Science ARE Compatible!"

http://www.mb-soft.com/public/genesis5.html
Holy moley!

No.

DOC, having a degree in nuclear physics does not, in any way, prepare one to make deep and meaningful contribution to cosmology. What he's doing is nothing more than shoehorning the Genesis account into a poorly defined rehash of variable constant cosmology.

His attempt at a statistic analysis of the probability of getting the sequence in Genesis correct by chance is woeful. Let's face it, how many ways are there to order a creation myth, and still have it make any sense? Could you make all the animals and plants before there was somewhere for them to live, or light for them to see where they were? Of course not, so getting that in the right order is obvious. Which is why so many creation myths manage to get it right.

I tell you what DOC, you find a well published serious researcher who can offer a coherent cosmological framework which is consistent with the biblical creation myth, and I'll take the time to address it properly. Until then you're just picking unqualified apologists, who have no idea what they're talking about, and you're doing it for the simple fact that they say what you want to hear.
 
Holy moley!

His attempt at a statistic analysis of the probability of getting the sequence in Genesis correct by chance is woeful. Let's face it, how many ways are there to order a creation myth, and still have it make any sense? Could you make all the animals and plants before there was somewhere for them to live, or light for them to see where they were? Of course not, so getting that in the right order is obvious. Which is why so many creation myths manage to get it right.
I am not sure which are the 14 facts that Genesis got in the right order, however the author notes that birds came at the wrong time. He also appears to miss the fact that Genesis starts with the earth being created then the stars then the sun. Oh well nice try.
 
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So at the beginning of the thread, DOC did not believe in the Big Bang at all, and now he does believe it but believes that it is not inconsistent with Genesis.

Ladies and Gentlemen, that's progress.

God said the word and

Bang!!

the universe came into being, that's what I believe, and that's what I've "always" believed in these threads. The BB Theory is just science trying to describe it.
 
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God said the word and

Bang!!

the universe came into being, that's what I believe, and that's what I've "always" believed in these threads. The BB Theory is just science trying to describe it.

Do you believe that when the universe was "smaller than a pea" that it didn't exist?
 
Doesn't this entirely contradict the argument from incredulity that was your OP? Do you now accept that the Big Bang theory is a correct interpretation of the evidence? Do you now accept that the universe was once "smaller than a pea", despite your earlier assertions?

Your putting words in my mouth as others have. You (and others) should start giving post numbers to back up your Doc asserted this and Doc asserted that. I never said the universe was not smaller than a pea.
 
You implied that knowledge of such would make people think that science is incorrect, or that religion is true.
 
Do you believe that when the universe was "smaller than a pea" that it didn't exist?

That's exactly what I believe, just like science says matter, space, and time, didn't exist.
 
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That's exactly what I believe, just like science says matter, space, and time, didn't exist.

Space didn't exist because, and I'm sure I'll be corrected on the terminology, there wasn't any distance; everything was at a singular point. Time didn't exist because there wasn't any change. Matter existed, if I remember correctly, in the singularity. Even if it didn't, there was a hell of a lot of energy. Are you saying there was no energy in the singularity?
 
God said the word and

Bang!!

the universe came into being, that's what I believe, and that's what I've "always" believed in these threads. The BB Theory is just science trying to describe it.

God saying a word before the universe existed means that air existed already.

What's up with that?
 
God said the word and

Bang!!

the universe came into being, that's what I believe, and that's what I've "always" believed in these threads. The BB Theory is just science trying to describe it.
So, science amazingly supports the truth of the bible, except for the times where it doesn't.
 
God said the word and

Bang!!

the universe came into being, that's what I believe, and that's what I've "always" believed in these threads. The BB Theory is just science trying to describe it.

Or it could be the other way around. The Big Bang happened, and religion is just ignorance trying to describe it.
 
That's exactly what I believe, just like science says matter, space, and time, didn't exist.

But that isn't what science says. Current theories don't say that there was nothingness and then BANG, there was something. The singularity contained everything that is the universe. Even if matter didn't form until later, the energy from which it formed existed in the singularity. There is no indication that it sprang from nothing.

You are welcome to your bronze age tribal myths. But no amount of hammering to fit and painting to match has made them match up with observed reality.
 
Of course this isn't actually what it says in Genesis....

It's strange. I understand that Doc wishes to ignore science, but now it seems he will dispute genesis as well.

The "lights in the firmament" came only on the third day, not only after earth, but after grass, herbs, and fruit trees. The purpose of the lights, of course, was to give light upon the earth. When god said "let there be light" it did not include the lights in the firmament. Sunlight came first, the stars only after the earth.

The whole thing is very earth-centric, obviously the people who wrote it considered the rest of the universe more of an afterthought, and didn't know the sun was a star, like the rest of the "lights in the firmament".
 
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=1&chapter=1&version=31
Gen 1:11 --- fruit bearing trees.
Gen 1:20 --- sea-creatures and birds.
Gen 1:24 --- land critters.

I can agree that plants came about before any animal that needed oxygen. But trees before animals?

First bony fish in the Silurian period:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silurian#Silurian_aquatic_biota


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devonian#Terrestrial_biota

By the Devonian Period, life was well underway in its colonization of the land. The moss forests and bacterial and algal mats of the Silurian were joined early in the period by primitive rooted plants that created the first stable soils and harbored arthropods like mites, scorpions and myriapods (although arthropods appeared on land much earlier than in the Early Devonian and the existence of fossils such as Climactichnites suggest that land arthropods may have appeared as early as the Cambrian period). Early Devonian plants did not have roots or leaves like the plants most common today, and many had no vascular tissue at all. They probably spread largely by vegetative growth, and did not grow much more than a few centimeters tall. Also the first possible fossils of insects appeared around 416 Ma in the Early Devonian.

By the Devonian, shrub-like forests of small, primitive plants existed: lycophytes, sphenophytes, ferns, and progymnosperms had evolved. Most of these plants had true roots and leaves, and many were quite tall. In the Late Devonian, the tree-like ancestral fern Archaeopteris and the giant cladoxylopsid trees grew with true wood. (See also: lignin.) These are the oldest known trees of the world's first forests.

Devonian follows Silurian.
So trees came after bony fish, mites, scorpions and myriapods.

Genesis and science disagree.


And I haven't even bothered to check that birds came after land-critters. It seems too obvious.


And...
Gen 1:27 God creates man, male and female.

I guess he lost the woman by the time Adam needed a mate. (Gen 2:21)
 
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