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Lets see if i got Sunder right on WTC7

RedIbis said:
I've read enough of your posts to know you can't back up any of your ridiculous charges.
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Backing up my charges? Simplicity itself.

Here is a post in which you imply complicity on the part of the FDNY.

Here is my response.

Here is the intellectually dishonest response (let's not kid ourselves, it's a flat out lie) you offered in return.

All within a thread from which you eventually ran away after failing to support your claims.

RedIbis said:
Focus on the WTC 7 NIST report.
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Feel free to respond in the original thread I linked above so as not to further derail this one.

I won't hold my breath.
 
roundhead said:
As i KNEW would be the case, everybody conviently skirted the courts and the city supressing the testimonies(except for one lost soul who its seems isnt aware this was even the case)
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There's nothing in your non-sequiter that shows any conspiracy.

And yes, thev comparison to soldiers is a very good comparison. That why the FD has sergeants, Lieutenants, Captains and so on. Orders come down the chain of command and are followed.
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Chain of command does not make them a military organization.

As i said earlier, i have nothing but immense pride for these guys.
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But you quietly consider them cowards for not supporting your fantasy. In your mind you think are easily cowed, mindless drones who won't take steps to avenge their fallen brothers. Some 'respect' you got there.

Somebody pointed out 2 testimonies, there are 116 others, including some later not related reports where guys were told to shut up or your retirement and other benefits could be at risk.
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Wrong.

The fact is, a large number of firefighters and first responders, who gave testimony regarding that day, werent addressed by the Commision.

That conduct, if an honest investigation is the true motive, should sicken anybody. So should the supression in the courts. You guys who suscribe to the theory these issues are fine are sick, and seriously need help.
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Why don't you go to a New York firehouse and tell them this yourself? Maybe what they said isn't really in line with your fantasies after all?
 
roundhead said:
And yes, thev comparison to soldiers is a very good comparison. That why the FD has sergeants, Lieutenants, Captains and so on. Orders come down the chain of command and are followed.
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You are oversimplifying things and just because they have ranks does not make them drones that obey orders without question. Yes, they do have a chain of command structure, but so does EVERY job.

Any member of the FDNY can also say, "I quit" and walk away so your "has to follow orders" theory falls apart rather quickly as a basis for covering up mass murder.

Plus, even in the military no one is required to follow an unlawful order, and covering up mass murder is one hell of an unlawful order.
 
It's almost as if roundhead has absolutely no idea about the inner workings of the FDNY or how it functions as an organization.
 
johnny karate said:
It's almost as if roundhead has absolutely no idea about the inner workings of the FDNY or how it functions as an organization.
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Or how any firefighter unions work. They are the strongest municipal union in most large cities.
 
roundhead said:
We also now learn that the joint expansion failure that Sunder explains, is the first such failure known to man. And as such, this failure for the first time in history, brought down a steel framed skyscraper.
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Long spam bean systems are notorious for failures due to thermal expansion. Or so all the old grey-haired engineers in my office say. Try talking to an engineer. Learn something!
 
Alareth said:
Plus, even in the military no one is required to follow an unlawful order, and covering up mass murder is one hell of an unlawful order.
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Just send a private to steal something for you and see how long you keep your stripes if you have pissed him off some time in the past.
 
Galileo said:
you're wrong, no one died in WTC 7. You fail to get the sympathy vote.
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Oh for the love of pete, did you even read what I was responding to?

Cripes, the dolt claimed that there were plenty of equipment and hydrants around to fight the fire at WTC7, and then said it was a shame that WTC7 was lost.

Beyond the fact that it was false, The truther seems to have forgotten the fact that there were not enough men to fight the fire, because 100's of them were dead.

So you fail, as always.
 
roundhead said:
And yes, thev comparison to soldiers is a very good comparison. That why the FD has sergeants, Lieutenants, Captains and so on. Orders come down the chain of command and are followed.
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On 9/11 the chain of command of the FDNY ended at Daniel Nigro who ordered WTC7 and the area around it evacuated because it was apparent that the building would collapse and he didn't want anybody else to die.

Fail.
 
Alt+F4 said:
Disgusting.

Members of the FDNY are not soldiers, they are employees of the City of New York. They do no follow orders blindly and they speak up LOUDLY when they feel an injustice has been done to members of their department or the public.

Do you know any members of the FDNY? I do. Do you know any members of the FDNY who were there that day? I do.

I'm a third generation NYC employee with a family filled with cops, firefighters, sanitation workers, etc. You have no what you are talking about, so shut the :rule10 up.
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Prove it or you shut the blank up.
 
Where do people (mostly 'Truthers') get this ridiculous idea that Firefighters and (especially) soldiers are trained to blindly follow orders without question from? In terms of soldiering, that crap excuse has not washed since the Nurenburg Trials. Now, I can only speak for the British Military, but we are obliged - and trained - to follow only lawful commands, and can only be subject to Disciplinary Action for disobeying lawful commands. We are taught to exercise our own moral courage and judgement in all situations.

ETA: Actually 'Truthers' have to believe this ridiculous stereotype of the Firefighters/Military as mindless automatons, blindly following orders in order for their delusions to be supported - if they don't, it all comes apart at the seams.

For any right-thinking soldier, being ordered to "engage and destroy the enemy" is a world away from being ordered to shoot a civilian in the head. I would imagine for a firefighter that being ordered to stay out of a building because it is too dangerous and being told to stay back and let a building burn and collapse for no apparent reason, is a similar no-brainer. What's worse is to imply that the Firefighters would let this happen and also be aware that it was all part of some nefarious (and frankly ridiculous) conspiracy and not speak out.
 
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