Lets see if i got Sunder right on WTC7

[steve s]

...not to mention all the lost contents and records. A shame.

The real shame is that paper shredders didn't exist prior to 9/11. Think of all the trouble that could have been avoided, having to fake a massive terrorist attack on our country just to destroy some records.

Steve S.

 

[roundhead]

Well, unlike most of your fellow liars, you are open about accusing the FDNY of complicity in a monstrous and pointless crime. Naturally, your evidence is nonexistent.
As for Silverstein, it is common knowledge that evil Jooos are eager to destroy their own buildings when they can lose tons of money on the deal.

I am not, nor have i ever accused the firefighters of doing anything except a great job. Point to one reference where i have ever said that, or else be a gentleman and admit i never have.

Firefighters are like soldiers, they follow orders. I have no knowledge, and i readily admit this regarding as to what orders were given to have firetrucks from other areas attempt to fight fires in 7. Or if in fact firefighters were told to just let it burn after hydrants didnt work. In either case , they followed orders.

As long as 7 burned, firetrucks from 100 miles away could have arrived in plenty of time to help, if so ordered.


I am all about how great a job they did. I am not all about those of you who inhabit this site, who could care less they're testimonies were tied up in courts for years and not allowed to see the light of day, until victims groups finally were able to force it out. You support that?

I am also upset how these brave guys were shunned by the 9/11 commision, marginalized, ignored, and generally swept under the carpet.

After all, the state of NY surely didnt hide these testimonies in court because they were in lockstep with the official lie, now did they?

I have yet to see a post on Jref complaining about these nasty court battles that hid these firefighters testimonies for years.

If all you guys are such huge supporters ogf the NYFD as you claim, i would expect this would have been an offensive topic that needed fleshed out by all you "good guys"

 

[Drudgewire]

If all you guys are such huge supporters ogf the NYFD...

Who?

 

[seandb]

Who gave the order to clear the area around WTC7? Wasn't it Chief Daniel Nigro from the FDNY?

 

[beachnut]

We also learn that the thermite would have been expected to stick to this column to do its evil duty" It would have to keep pushing against the column" or something to that effect.

Thermite, made up by Jones Thermite, on of the top ten dumbest ideas on 9/11. Jones making it up due to his biases on other topics, you can see why he was fired (retired in lieu). An idea so absurd and not backed with evidence, Jones had to move from the world of academics to fantasy truth movement, all because he was not rational on 9/11.

I can't believe how patient NIST was with the insane and fantasy ideas of 9/11 truth. And you are now presenting evidence not to support your ideas, but to expose your flawed ideas based on hearsay and lies.

Why would anyone plant thermite in the WTC complex? It is the dumbest idea ever made up by a cold fusion physicist. The truth is NIST was being polite in their answer to the nonsense and ignorance that is 9/11 truth ideas.

 

[Dog Town]

Lets see if i got Sunder right on WTC7

Pic from:http://www.livescience.com/animals/ap_051006_python.html

 

[Reality Believer]

Audio of Press Conference is Up

Here is the audio from today's conference. About 1 hour.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=906_1219351842

 

[Thunder]

Truther says: "we know 9-11 was an inside job. we dont care what the scientists, experts, or math says. 9-11 was an inside job!!!"

=)

 

[DGM]

roundhead:
I feel you are truly lost as to priority's. Saving people was #1. WTC 7 is a building and no one was killed. It was a thing nothing else, It can (and was) replaced. The fact that the chief's had to make that tough decision just show how bad that day was. Get your priority's straight.

 

[TJM]

When has this roundhead person gotten anything right? He's obviously a troll.

 

[roundhead]

And yet not one New York Firefighter takes you guys seriously.

BTW, you think the Firefighters would put up with any real evidence of explosives being suppressed? I doubt it. So for all your mock 'concern' you are essentially calling them cowards.

I know people who work for the water department who won't put up with potential changes in the concrete used in the sewers they probably won't see in their working lifetime, yet somehow thousands of firefighters keep silent over hundreds of of their brothers being killed.

Yeah. Right.

Hey Kook, your way on the wrong side of this issue pal.

Fact, the city of NY(Bloomberg)refused to release the oral testimonies even when a FOI request was made, and after the NY times and victims families had a lawsuit to have them released.Finally a NY state appeals court forced him to turn them over. Not very forthcoming, now was it.

You can blab all you want, the fact is the oral testimonies were damaging to the official lie, and that is the only reason they werent released. Period.

 

[Alt+F4]

Firefighters are like soldiers, they follow orders. I have no knowledge, and i readily admit this regarding as to what orders were given to have firetrucks from other areas attempt to fight fires in 7. Or if in fact firefighters were told to just let it burn after hydrants didnt work. In either case , they followed orders.

Disgusting.

Members of the FDNY are not soldiers, they are employees of the City of New York. They do no follow orders blindly and they speak up LOUDLY when they feel an injustice has been done to members of their department or the public.

Do you know any members of the FDNY? I do. Do you know any members of the FDNY who were there that day? I do.

I'm a third generation NYC employee with a family filled with cops, firefighters, sanitation workers, etc. You have no what you are talking about, so shut the up.

 

[Drudgewire]

Finally a NY state appeals court forced him to turn them over. Not very forthcoming, now was it.

You can blab all you want, the fact is the oral testimonies were damaging to the official lie, and that is the only reason they werent released. Period.

So now that they were forced to release them, 9/11 was proven to be an inside job and the truth movement won, right?

 

[TJM]

Hey Kook, your way on the wrong side of this issue pal.

Fact, the city of NY(Bloomberg)refused to release the oral testimonies even when a FOI request was made, and after the NY times and victims families had a lawsuit to have them released.Finally a NY state appeals court forced him to turn them over. Not very forthcoming, now was it.

You can blab all you want, the fact is the oral testimonies were damaging to the official lie, and that is the only reason they werent released. Period.

And your proof of this is....because you said so?

(I'll bet his fingers caught fire when he typed "Bloomberg")

 

[eromitlab]

Thermite, made up by Jones Thermite, on of the top ten dumbest ideas on 9/11. Jones making it up due to his biases on other topics, you can see why he was fired (retired in lieu). An idea so absurd and not backed with evidence, Jones had to move from the world of academics to fantasy truth movement, all because he was not rational on 9/11.

I can't believe how patient NIST was with the insane and fantasy ideas of 9/11 truth. And you are now presenting evidence not to support your ideas, but to expose your flawed ideas based on hearsay and lies.

Why would anyone plant thermite in the WTC complex? It is the dumbest idea ever made up by a cold fusion physicist. The truth is NIST was being polite in their answer to the nonsense and ignorance that is 9/11 truth ideas.

The folks at NIST have incorrectly assumed that if they patiently listen to the truthists, avoid calling them uninformed lying morons, rationally disprove their theories and answer all their dumb "questions", they will realize that they have been wrong about da twoof and leave the issue be. They don't know truthists and how irrational they can be.

 

[tsig]

Doctors? I just ask people on the NPH forum. They seem to know how to perform open heart surgery.

On yourself no less.

 

[boloboffin]

Just an aside to say...

, I need a cigarette.

 

[leftysergeant]

Firefighters are like soldiers, they follow orders.

BS. A soldier is subject to court-martial if he refuses to follow an order. Nothing in the world prevents a fire fighter from dropping a dime on an officer who gives a clearly criminal order or seriously screws up and gets people hurt. Concealling classified information is not in the contract they signed. Give it up. That arguement goes nowhere. (Just my professional opinion as both a fire fighter and a retired soldier.)

I have no knowledge, and i readily admit this regarding as to what orders were given to have firetrucks from other areas attempt to fight fires in 7. Or if in fact firefighters were told to just let it burn after hydrants didnt work. In either case , they followed orders.

As long as 7 burned, firetrucks from 100 miles away could have arrived in plenty of time to help, if so ordered.

What would they have done? Draft from the East River? String hoses all over manhattan to get in the way of more critical operations? Not a bit feasible. There was also the fact that the building was already observed to be leaning. There being no need to rescue anyone, it was of utterly tertiary concern, what with the need to do search and rescue and to cover expsures and extinguish the fire in the pile. They just did not have the manpower or the water to diddle with an empty building.

I am also upset how these brave guys were shunned by the 9/11 commision, marginalized, ignored, and generally swept under the carpet.

After all, the state of NY surely didnt hide these testimonies in court because they were in lockstep with the official lie, now did they?

I have yet to see a post on Jref complaining about these nasty court battles that hid these firefighters testimonies for years.

If you are referring to the oral histories reprinted in the NY Times, I knew about DeShore and Ondrovic years ago. They really are not relevant to the engineering studies. Given her apparent mental state at the time, Ondrovic is not even worth citing for court procedings.

Schroeder and Cacchioli were not even in a location to give a true account of the collapse of either building. Their accounts are self-debunking at the same point, which is that they find Pfeifer and his crew gone from the lobby when they get down stairs.

If you have all the verifiable evidence, Da Twoof is in the toilet.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

Boy, i hope i dont find that adjacent fire hydrants were online that morning. If they were, its very resonable to assume(after listening to Sunder)they could have quite likely with enough hoses have saved the building.

I feel sorry for poor Silverstein, having lost this building when water could have saved it.Darn.

I guess, as there was no water to apply to the building, it was in the end the correct decision to allow it to burn.
Pity fire trucks and hydrants couldnt have been brought to bear. A wonderful and expensive building to have to sacrifice, not to mention all the lost contents and records. A shame.

water issues from the firemen themselves:

We had fire in 50 and 7 World Trade Center. We had fire in 90 West. We had a smaller fire in one of the apartments in Battery Park City that we dispatched companies up there to put out. We had a water supply problem because I remember the water main was broken. Actually, to get water over in our sector over there at West and Liberty we got one of the fireboats to draft for us. It turned out it was the retired John J. Harvey that started drafting for us.

We went one block north over to Greenwich and then headed south. There was an engine company there, right at the corner. It was right underneath building 7 and it was still burning at the time. They had a hose in operation, but you could tell there was no pressure. It was barely making it across the street. Building 6 was fully involved and it was hitting the sidewalk across the street. I told the guys to wait up.

Roundhead fails again.

 

[roundhead]

As i KNEW would be the case, everybody conviently skirted the courts and the city supressing the testimonies(except for one lost soul who its seems isnt aware this was even the case)

And yes, thev comparison to soldiers is a very good comparison. That why the FD has sergeants, Lieutenants, Captains and so on. Orders come down the chain of command and are followed.

As i said earlier, i have nothing but immense pride for these guys.

Somebody pointed out 2 testimonies, there are 116 others, including some later not related reports where guys were told to shut up or your retirement and other benefits could be at risk.


The fact is, a large number of firefighters and first responders, who gave testimony regarding that day, werent addressed by the Commision.

That conduct, if an honest investigation is the true motive, should sicken anybody. So should the supression in the courts. You guys who suscribe to the theory these issues are fine are sick, and seriously need help.