Merged Summing up the evidence against Controlled Demolition

[Sizzler]

None were anywhere near as loud as actual demo charges, and actual demo charges aren't nearly as loud nor as powerful as the ridiculous amount of explosives truthers propose - explosives so powerful they pulverize an acre of concrete and send tons of material flying hundreds of feet.

There is no evidence at all for explosives.

Tons of concrete was pulverized, and tons of material was sent flying hundreds of feet. This we can see on video and in still photos. This is fact.

It is also a fact that the collapse was not silent. It was indeed very loud. This can be heard in numerous videos and audio recordings.

It is also a fact that we don't hear any obvious pre-collapse detonations. But that is to be expected if it were a disguised CD. I don't find it far fetched to believe that a CD could be engineered to appear as a natural collapse.

For example:

Thermite pre-weakening eliminates pre-collapse detonations.

Frequent, numerous, and precisely timed explosions could then be used to create the illusions of a natural collapse. ie, one explosions begins before another ends thus creating a roar.

 

[Sizzler]

Then the logical conclusion is that it wasn't CDed, right?

Based solely on the above mentioned statement, yes. However we both know it isn't that simple.

 

[Pardalis]

Based solely on the above mentioned statement, yes. However we both know it isn't that simple.

How so?

Either it was CDed or it wasn't.

 

[Sizzler]

Why do you assume that those people sorting to the debris would overlook it? You might be intrested in this site which details the recovery:

http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/exhibits/longterm/wtc/

They didn't find it because it wasn't there.

I'm not assuming that they overlooked it. I'm just not assuming that if it were there, they would definitely find it.

Thanks for the link. Will check it out tomorrow. Sleepy time.

 

[Alt+F4]

Thermite pre-weakening eliminates pre-collapse detonations.

Frequent, numerous, and precisely timed explosions could then be used to create the illusions of a natural collapse. ie, one explosions begins before another ends thus creating a roar.

A thermite reaction occurs very, very quickly. When/how could this be done? Whether thermite or explosives, how would the evil doers know where to plant them when they couldn't be sure what floors would be damaged by the plane crashes?

 

[Pardalis]

I'm just not assuming that if it were there, they would definitely find it.

As Alt+F4 said, since they didn't find anything, then it wasn't there.

If there was something and they didn't find it, then it makes no sense.

If there was something and they find it, and didn't tell, then you are accusing them of being complicit in mass murder.

See how that logic thing goes?

 

[Sizzler]

How so?

Either it was CDed or it wasn't.

Well lets put it this way.

Before 9-11, all examples of complete global collapse of steel high-rise buildings involved CD. Are we then to assume that the WTC was CD'ed too?

If that is the only information we have, one might logically conclude that it was CD'ed. However we have much more information to consider, just like the point you raised.

 

[Pardalis]

But that is to be expected if it were a disguised CD. I don't find it far fetched to believe that a CD could be engineered to appear as a natural collapse.

So basically, you're chasing ghosts?

You've painted yourself into a corner here. You want it to be a CD, while at the same time all the evidence shows it wasn't, so you invent in your mind some kind of "disguised CD" scenario in order to keep believing in the CD theory.

That is complete and utter nonsense.

 

[Sizzler]

A thermite reaction occurs very, very quickly. When/how could this be done? Whether thermite or explosives, how would the evil doers know where to plant them when they couldn't be sure what floors would be damaged by the plane crashes?

Personal incredulity. How do you know they didn't know what floors would be damaged. And how do you know it even mattered?

 

[Pardalis]

Well lets put it this way.

Before 9-11, all examples of complete global collapse of steel high-rise buildings involved CD. Are we then to assume that the WTC was CD'ed too?

No.

If that is the only information we have, one might logically conclude that it was CD'ed.

No. And it's not the only evidence we have.

 

[Pardalis]

This is the perfect example of denialism in works.

It starts with cognitive dissonance, holding two completely contradictory ideas at the same time: the collapse was a CD and all the evidence shows it wasn't.

Then, in order to keep the CD theory valid, you invent yourself the "disguised CD" theory, which of course can't be proven, since it was disguised as a natural collapse, which all the evidence points to.

So in effect, your theory can't be proved or disproved, and therefore is irrelevant, and only ideological.

The fact that it can't be disproved is enough for denialists (you can't prove CD with evidence of non-CD), this way it allows for the "doubt" to remain. That's all they want, to make it seem that there's something wrong, not to actually prove it, since they can't anyway.

 

[WildCat]

Tons of concrete was pulverized, and tons of material was sent flying hundreds of feet. This we can see on video and in still photos. This is fact.

True.

It is also a fact that the collapse was not silent. It was indeed very loud. This can be heard in numerous videos and audio recordings.

But none of that loud noise were explosives, were they? Ever hear an actual CD Sizzler? Have any audio from 9/11 that has such explosions? Didn't think so.

It is also a fact that we don't hear any obvious pre-collapse detonations. But that is to be expected if it were a disguised CD. I don't find it far fetched to believe that a CD could be engineered to appear as a natural collapse.

So now it appears to be a natural collapse, rather than the obvious CD truthers claim it to be?

For example:

Thermite pre-weakening eliminates pre-collapse detonations.

How does thermite weaken a column again? Why doesn't anyone notice this thermite? Why haven't truthers been able to demonstrate how thermite can weaken a column? And you are now saying the explosives don't go off until after ther building starts to collapse?

Frequent, numerous, and precisely timed explosions could then be used to create the illusions of a natural collapse. ie, one explosions begins before another ends thus creating a roar.

Wat a load of nonsense! Can you demonstrate how this is done?

 

[Sizzler]

So basically, you're chasing ghosts?

You've painted yourself into a corner here. You want it to be a CD, while at the same time all the evidence shows it wasn't, so you invent in your mind some kind of "disguised CD" scenario in order to keep believing in the CD theory.

That is complete and utter nonsense.

My claims in this particular thread are that evidence, or lack thereof, in OP, do not refute CD possibility.

That is all.

 

[kookbreaker]

I'm not assuming that they overlooked it. I'm just not assuming that if it were there, they would definitely find it.

Nonsense. The addition of further debris would not be able to hide massive amounts of detcord that would be around. You are asking us to imagine that it would be overlooked. Not a chance, and many of the clean-up workers are going to know exactly what it is.

 

[Sizzler]

And it's not the only evidence we have.

Exactly. This also applies to the original point you made, in which I answered, yes, solely based on the single fact that no CD has ever occurred to an un-gutted building.

 

[Pardalis]

My claims in this particular thread are that evidence, or lack thereof, in OP, do not refute CD possibility.

And that is exactly my point in post #31

 

[Sizzler]

This is the perfect example of denialism in works.

It starts with cognitive dissonance, holding two completely contradictory ideas at the same time: the collapse was a CD and all the evidence shows it wasn't.

Then, in order to keep the CD theory valid, you invent yourself the "disguised CD" theory, which of course can't be proven, since it was disguised as a natural collapse, which all the evidence points to.

So in effect, your theory can't be proved or disproved, and therefore is irrelevant, and only ideological.

The fact that it can't be disproved is enough for denialists (you can't prove CD with evidence of non-CD), this way it allows for the "doubt" to remain. That's all they want, to make it seem that there's something wrong, not to actually prove it, since they can't anyway.

This is true assuming I made the claim that the buildings were CD'ed. I did not do this however.

 

[Pardalis]

This is true assuming I made the claim that the buildings were CD'ed. I did not do this however.

Oh? What exactly are you claiming then?

 

[Sizzler]

Oh? What exactly are you claiming then?

I'm refuting OP's points of evidence against CD possibility.

(I gotta go to bed now. Nice chatting. Let's resume tomorrow.)

 

[WildCat]

This is true assuming I made the claim that the buildings were CD'ed. I did not do this however.