Do Satanists believe in god?

[beeksc1]

Aleister Crowley professed belief in a god. Karl Marx believed in god; and Marx opined that Friedrich Engels and himself (in German Ideology) were

concerned with a highly interesting question: the decomposition of the Absolute Spirit.

Have heard that the devil (Lucifer, Beelzebub, etc.) is a character that only exists in Christian folklore. Is Satanism an ideology that comes from the Christian belief?

Do Satanists believe in a divine force?

 

[Mark Felt]

Theoretically, no, a belief in god isn't required for Satanism. From what I recall of the literature, Lucifer is revered as one who brought knowledge to the human race, I don't recall God being mentioned.

(I'm almost certainly wrong)

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

I would ask a Satanist.

From the self-described Satanists I have known (a sample size of three), the main idea seems to be that Christianity (and to some extent, other religions) have demonized the value of the self, and that Satan serves as the greatest symbol of this demonization. Two of these folks have claimed to be atheists and materialists, believing in no spiritual forces at all, merely in symbols. The other seemd to hold an essentially Christian-modeled worldview with the roles reversed. God was the bad guy. Satan was the liberator of mankind.

 

[beeksc1]

Theoretically, no, a belief in god isn't required for Satanism. From what I recall of the literature, Lucifer is revered as one who brought knowledge to the human race, I don't recall God being mentioned.
(I'm almost certainly wrong)

Conceptually, yes. A worship of Satan usually mandates the belief in a benevolent god. Of what I recollect from the evidence, God is the antithesis of the one who brings deception to humankind. I do remember Satan being referenced.

(I am mostly accurat...)

Marquis, the description of Satanism that characterizes the third person's perspective

The other seemd to hold an essentially Christian-modeled worldview with the roles reversed. God was the bad guy. Satan was the liberator of mankind.

is the argument that I find most compelling; but, as Satan (and Satanism) reverses the goodness that can be found in the human mind, it maybe challenging to buy.

 

[Delvo]

The only brand of "Satanism" that I'm familiar with doesn't seem to consider any supernatural entities to be real, not even Satan. They apparently use the name and symbolism just to annoy Christians. What they actually believe is all about human nature: that "bad" things are part of us just as well as "good" things are and we should be tuned in to them and understand them so that we're choosing which ones to act on in an honest and informed way rather than out of blind fear, denial, or self-subjugation.

 

[Civilized Worm]

Crowley wasn't a satanist and Marx didn't believe in god.

What Delvo said is pretty much correct, satanism in the sense of the Church of Satan is basically for atheists who enjoy the trappings of religion. Even Anton LaVey admitted that his church was "just Ayn Rand's philosophy with ceremony and ritual added". It's pretty silly.

 

[Nosaj]

beeksc1,

Do Satanists believe in a divine force?

The answer is that it depends on the particular Satanist. For example, there are some Satanists who are materialists who believe this life is all there is, that there is no G_d, no Devil and no afterlife; therefore, there is ultimately no right and wrong, no post-mortem consequences of actions and pleasure is all that really matters because this is it. These type of Satanists are basically just using "Satan" as an arch-type for human nature or as an attention-getter, e.g., Anton LaVey made a very profitable atheistic religion centered around this belief.

The other kinds of Satanists, the ones who actually believe in Satan as an existent being, have many different beliefs that generally evolve from Christian theology. There are some who believe, for example, that Satan is actually the good guy, that G_d is not the true G_d or creator, but a lesser being who created the material world (as per Gnosticism). Yaweh is seen as a false god while Lucifer as the bringer of [the] light [of knowledge]. Then there are those who see Satan as the personification of forces such as chaos, evil, sensual desire, etc.

As a side note, an interesting example of an atypically positive view of Satan can found in the Yezidis' religion. The Yezidis essentially consider Melek Taus (i.e., Shaytan) to be a benevolent angel, often represented as a peacock, who, along with six other angels, is said to have been tested by G_d. However, as Melek Taus was the only angel to pass G_d's test by refusing to worship Adam and extinguishing the fires of Hell with his tears, G_d made Melek Taus the chief of all angels and the caretaker of creation (Information about the Yezidi Kurds).

Jason

 

[leonAzul]

Have heard that the devil (Lucifer, Beelzebub, etc.) is a character that only exists in Christian folklore. Is Satanism an ideology that comes from the Christian belief?

There is a great deal of confusion about the devil.

Textually, there is a reference to Lucifer (literally, the one who carries the light) who allowed worship of himself, thus falling due to unworthy pride [Isaias 14:12ff]. IMHO, the message there is that claiming credit for someone else's work is flat out wrong. "And so it's true, pride comes before a fall " -- I'm a loser (c) Lennon/McCartney

The rest is a whole lot of superstition with any number of epithets for the Evil One.

In short: Don't blame Christians for superstition. It's part and parcel of the human experience.

 

[Huh-What?]

beeksc1,



The answer is that it depends on the particular Satanist. For example, there are some Satanists who are materialists who believe this life is all there is, that there is no G_d, no Devil and no afterlife; therefore, there is ultimately no right and wrong, no post-mortem consequences of actions and pleasure is all that really matters because this is it. These type of Satanists are basically just using "Satan" as an arch-type for human nature or as an attention-getter, e.g., Anton LaVey made a very profitable atheistic religion centered around this belief.

The other kinds of Satanists, the ones who actually believe in Satan as an existent being, have many different beliefs that generally evolve from Christian theology. There are some who believe, for example, that Satan is actually the good guy, that G_d is not the true G_d or creator, but a lesser being who created the material world (as per Gnosticism). Yaweh is seen as a false god while Lucifer as the bringer of [the] light [of knowledge]. Then there are those who see Satan as the personification of forces such as chaos, evil, sensual desire, etc.

As a side note, an interesting example of an atypically positive view of Satan can found in the Yezidis' religion. The Yezidis essentially consider Melek Taus (i.e., Shaytan) to be a benevolent angel, often represented as a peacock, who, along with six other angels, is said to have been tested by G_d. However, as Melek Taus was the only angel to pass G_d's test by refusing to worship Adam and extinguishing the fires of Hell with his tears, G_d made Melek Taus the chief of all angels and the caretaker of creation (Information about the Yezidi Kurds).

Jason

Just curious. Why do you use G_d instead of God? I am sure there has been a discussion on this in another thread, but I don't see it.

 

[plumjam]

My auntie went on a few dates with Anton LaVey. It was never gonna work; all she ever did was crochet.

 

[Nosaj]

Huh-What?,

Just curious. Why do you use G_d instead of God? I am sure there has been a discussion on this in another thread, but I don't see it.

I use 'G_d' when referencing the deity of the three Abrahamic religions, mainly because Hebrew uses no vowels, and out of share habit.

Jason

 

[Drudgewire]

One of my oldest friends is a priest in the Church of Satan. Occasionally when we talk he'll mock me for "still believing in fairy tales" and I'll respond with "and you go through the same ritualistic nonsense christians do."

That's why I like the Norwegian black metal satanists. They had about as much use for LaVey as they did for the pope.

 

[Nosaj]

That's why I like the Norwegian black metal satanists.

\,,/

 

[Nogbad]

Satinism is OK if it is a 70s disco night though.

 

[Robin]

Crowley wasn't a satanist...

Well that is an interesting question. Crowley believed that the devil had fooled Christians into worshipping him - that only the enemy of mankind would demand that mankind relinquish the proud upright position God had given them by kneeling.

So that appears to suggest that he believed the real God is the person the Christians refer to as Satan.

 

[kmortis]

Well that is an interesting question. Crowley believed that the devil had fooled Christians into worshipping him - that only the enemy of mankind would demand that mankind relinquish the proud upright position God had given them by kneeling.

So that appears to suggest that he believed the real God is the person the Christians refer to as Satan.

I would caution taking anything that Uncle Al said at face value. He was a notorious trickster who liked to pull pranks on his readers.

That being said, having read quite a bit of Crowley, I'd vote that he thought that he was god, and the rest were all posers.

 

[Robin]

I would caution taking anything that Uncle Al said at face value. He was a notorious trickster who liked to pull pranks on his readers.

Absolutely, I have often mentioned in this forum that Crowley's tongue was lodged firmly in his cheek at most, if not all times.

That being said, having read quite a bit of Crowley, I'd vote that he thought that he was god, and the rest were all posers.

I seem to remember that at one point he says "One day you will be speaking of the Sunset of Crowleyanity".

 

[IgnorantGenius]

Satanists do not believe in Satan or God.

Satan and God are characters in Christianity. Satanists hijack the image of Satan to simply make a rebellious point in the culture they live in.

Those who actually worship Satan as God's enemy are called Theistic Satanists.

 

[Lab Rat]

There was point of enquiry podcast where DJ Groethe interviewed Peter Gilmore who is the high priest of the church of satan. I'd post the link but this is my first post and I don't have that option yet.

They don't worship satan, they take satan from the hebrew to mean adversary. So they're adversaries of all faith based religions.

I got the impression that it was a theatrical, selfish form of atheism.
Selfish in the sense that they organise their lives to maximise they're happinees and pleasures, which we all do to some extent. I just think satanists are more upfront about it. They don't feel the need to live up to some ideal of goodness, unless of course that matters to the individual satanist.

 

[CriticalThanking]

I use 'G_d' when referencing the deity of the three Abrahamic religions, mainly because Hebrew uses no vowels, and out of share habit.

Jason

When I was young and undergoing Judaic indoctrination education, I was taught that it was poor form to use the deity's full name. That's why I never refer to Jesus Horatio Christ, just Jesus H. Christ. In a similar vein, when saying the words of a prayer without really praying (showing off for goyim, etc), one should use the word "Adoshem" instead of "Adonai". I will not vouch for my accuracy in reporting someone else's dogma.

[derail]
Elohim - your nick reminds me of a run-in with a prosthelytizer back in college who tried to convince me that the old testament "proved" the xtian trinity because the word Elohim is a plural form.
[/derail].

CT