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Debunk Alert: New Ryan/Jones Article in Peer Reviewed Journal

Nicely challenged. Although I need to point out that as phrased, there are actually two errors in the calculation -- the first is arithmetic in nature. The second is the more fundamental error in reasoning, which Newtons Bit is trying to lead our interpid newcomer into seeing. Depending on the depth of confusion, one might be led to make the arithmetic error, so it might be deliberate or it could be an accident.

Arithmetic hard. I suppose that's what happens when I write something like that in about 9 minutes while scarfing down my lunch.

The second energy calculation should be 1/2 M2 * V2^2. That is not the error that I was talking about.
 
Arithmetic hard. I suppose that's what happens when I write something like that in about 9 minutes while scarfing down my lunch.

The second energy calculation should be 1/2 M2 * V2^2. That is not the error that I was talking about.


Yup, that's the one. Has no bearing on the point of the post, which is well stated, and sure to be ignored by those who think they know everything.
 
I, too, investigated 9/11 issue when I discovered that questions were raised. [...]

In the end, it's not enough to note that questions are being raised. Those questions and the context behind then have to be evaluated every bit as skeptically as the NIST, FEMA, 9/11 Commision, and other "official" claims. If they're not, then simply going from belief in the "Official Story" to belief in the alternate narrative isn't really an indication of enlightenment. It's merely a sign of bending with the wind.


Excellent post, ElMondo and nominated for TLA.
 
Something is badly wrong here.

One car run into another, and due to conservation of momentum the now doubled mass continue at half the speed.
And half the kinectic energi have disappered ½*2000*5`2 = 25Kj :confused:

4/5 of the original energi gone into bumpers mean that energi have suddenly appeared out of thin air.

It have been too long since i had physics, will read up on it.
 
approximations

You mistake my intentions. You don't claim to be an expert on this stuff. I'm not trying to expose you or trap you as someone who isn't an expert.

I'm trying to get you to learn. You might even say that I'm trying to get you to work out the truth for yourself. The problem I posted shares the same fundamental problem that Gordon Ross's paper does. See if you can figure it out (this problem is much more visible in my car example). Try thinking it through, you'll not be ridiculed for trying. You won't be ridiculed for guessing wrong as you don't proclaim to be an expert. You will be labeled, accurately, an intellectual coward for not even attempting a guess.

Take a stab at it. What's wrong with the car problem? What SEEMS wrong? Try working at it through the basis that there weren't any explosives and that the energy balance is wrong.

Thanks, Newton. I like your quote, btw, at the bottom of your posts. I think there is a danger in assuming the "calculations" are the final word of "truth" about a matter. My stepson's dad is an Aussie engineer, worked as a project manager at times on some of the tunnels in and around Hong Kong. I have a great deal of respect for the profession, but in the end, in the final analysis, especially in analyzing a thoroughly unexpected event such as these towers disintergrating after less than an hour and slightly more than an hour, the "calculations" are especially only useful to "guesstimate" what happened. They provide a "theoretical" model, and in no way, shape, or manner, are capable of providing the "absolute truth." The math models reality, how well is the problem.

In the last Bazant paper I waded through he uses lots and lots of theoretical calculations, but toward the end said something to the effect of, "but not much of this could be seen because it was obscured in dust clouds."
So, a religious reliance on the "calculations" is not a particularly convincing revelation of truth. The calculations are perfectly capable of ignoring or missing, not out of malice or with a particular design, extremely relevant phenomena.

A police woman in one of the lobbies described massive explosions. She had spent 13 or 14 years in the military before becoming a police officer. She was trained to recognize explosions, and continue to operate efficiently while explosions were going off all around her. Her military training taught her drop, cover her mouth, keep her head down, look before getting up. In other words, she knew what an explosion was. She had been trained and had experienced them, and knew what to do. She said this training all came back to her in the lobby. She was picked up and thrown many feet, pelted with schrapnel, burned, had the air sucked out of her from the shock wave. This was hundreds of feet below any fire or aircraft damage. This was not elevators dropping, boilers or transformers exploding. This was a massive explosion, one of several. She is a highly credible witness to explosions, one of many witnesses. The reality of her experience does not have a function in an engineering calculation to account for what she heard, felt, experienced, and suffered from for days after the fact.

The math approximates reality, it does not substitute for it. Sometimes the approximations are good, at other times, as wrong as can be.
 
A police woman in one of the lobbies described massive explosions. She had spent 13 or 14 years in the military before becoming a police officer. She was trained to recognize explosions, and continue to operate efficiently while explosions were going off all around her. Her military training taught her drop, cover her mouth, keep her head down, look before getting up. In other words, she knew what an explosion was. She had been trained and had experienced them, and knew what to do. She said this training all came back to her in the lobby. She was picked up and thrown many feet, pelted with schrapnel, burned, had the air sucked out of her from the shock wave. This was hundreds of feet below any fire or aircraft damage. This was not elevators dropping, boilers or transformers exploding. This was a massive explosion, one of several. She is a highly credible witness to explosions, one of many witnesses. The reality of her experience does not have a function in an engineering calculation to account for what she heard, felt, experienced, and suffered from for days after the fact.

You wouldn't have her name and full statements with you by any chance?
 
In the last Bazant paper I waded through he uses lots and lots of theoretical calculations, but toward the end said something to the effect of, "but not much of this could be seen because it was obscured in dust clouds."
So, a religious reliance on the "calculations" is not a particularly convincing revelation of truth. The calculations are perfectly capable of ignoring or missing, not out of malice or with a particular design, extremely relevant phenomena.

How much less sensible, therefore, is it to rely on calculations which are demonstrably incorrect? Ross's calculations would actually conclude that collapse is expected to propagate down to ground level if Ross didn't make an absurd mathematical error that double-counts the deformation energies. Kuttler's calculations would demonstrate that the predicted collapse times agree very well with the observed collapse times if he didn't assume that all the concrete had to be pulverised and ejected in every collision, or overestimate the resistance of the support columns to collapse by about twenty times. Yet, with all your skepticism of Bazant's calculations, which are at least internally consistent, you allow yourself to be convinced by work that is quite simply wrong. A rigorous reliance on erroneous calculations is hardly a better revelation of truth.

Dave
 
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You wouldn't have her name and full statements with you by any chance?

I think this might be what he's referring to (spun version here). The detail that you won't hear truthers advertising is that if you check the timeline, the part where she reports explosions actually occurs well before the collapse. Naturally, reports at ground level of explosions pre collapse don't jive with any CD mechanism that would cause the top-down collapse that was observed, so I don't see how this supports any conspiracy theory.
 
I think this might be what he's referring to (spun version here). The detail that you won't hear truthers advertising is that if you check the timeline, the part where she reports explosions actually occurs well before the collapse. Naturally, reports at ground level of explosions pre collapse don't jive with any CD mechanism that would cause the top-down collapse that was observed, so I don't see how this supports any conspiracy theory.

Reading through it quickly, she does seem to casually use the word "explosion" to describe any big sound she heard.
 
a foul wind...

I, too, investigated 9/11 issue when I discovered that questions were raised. For me, it started with the one asking "How did the towers collapse? Jet fuel cannot burn hot enough to melt steel". But, when I heard that, as well as other 9/11 questions like it, I took the time to look at more than just the claim itself; I investigated the context as well. And in doing so, I discovered that context is just as important as factual accuracy when evaluating conspiratorial claims. You see, much about conspiracy peddling involves casting correct facts in incorrect context, and then from there going on to cast more facts even further separated from the situation's context. On top of that, you begin to see factually inaccurate claims, too. Those claims increase in contextual separation and factual inaccuracy until an entirely false picture is built from what on the surface appear to be strings of eminently sensible objections. After the narrative is built, many who have followed the line end up being too intellectually invested and have trouble honestly analyzing the actual truth of the event. Truly honest folks are able to eventually identify the traps and realize the level of deception, but others who are not quite there yet remain mired in the conspiratorial narrative until the dissonace becomes too great to ignore. Either that, or they simply work at staying in the "questions" phase, thus avoiding such conflict. At any rate, there's a problem with the conspiracy narrative, and just about all of us here have seen the same deceptions and distortions used to build that narrative. I understand that the questions seem honestly compelling. They really are. It's just that the answers to those are out there as well, and once you discover those, you'll see how much of the conspiratorial claims are built on shakey foundations, misrepresentations, or outright distortions.

Consider the first claim I brought up, the one about jet fuel and steel melting. Why did the towers fall when the fires weren't hot enough to melt the steel? Well, the simple answer is that the towers' steel did not have to melt for that to happen. It's actually a simple issue, yet the phrasing of the "question" leads people in the wrong direction. They'll trust that the representation of the issue is correct. And that's where the deceptions begin. The statement about jet fuel and steel is a total canard, a fact that happens to be independently correct (light a container of jet fuel on fire, then stick a steel rod into it. Unless the environment is somehow insulated, the steel won't melt), but in regards to 9/11, is irrelevant.

Context. You have to also critically analyze the questions posed in opposition of the "Official Story", and judge the question's merits. Is the question based on real understanding? Is the objection cast in the proper context? Too many times, I see wonderful levels of inquiry and skepticism aimed at the NIST, FEMA, 9/11 Commision, and other "official sources" narratives utterly wasted because they're based on blithe acceptance of flawed conspiratorial points. Misapprehensions are built from such careless acceptance.

Take another look at an example, one of your own claims: "Small pockets of fire", "two hand lines". That one appears to provide the base of a rather big misapprehension regarding the magnitude of the fires on 9/11. First of all, at some point you were presented with a mistaken quote, and apparently it never was corrected before you brought it here; again, the statement was not "small pockets", it was "isolated". Chief Palmer certainly did not consider those fires small, not if he was dedicating two 2-1/2 inch lines to fight them, and right there is the second place where you fail to catch onto the distortion: Two hand lines like that actually amounts to a good amount of capacity. 250 gallons per minute per line is hardly small. Furthermore, you characterize the entire conflageration, including the rubble pile fires, with a statement made by one person discussing one isolated area on one floor of one tower. As serious study of the events reveal, the 78th floor of the South Tower was one of the lightest fires known to be in the towers; NCSTAR 1-5 characterizes it that way, yet on it's own merits, 2 hand lines is no small capacity. The point lesson here is that it is a mistake to characterize any of the fires in the towers as small, even the isolated pockets on the 78th floor that Chief Palmer saw. But the bigger lesson is that when you don't question the conspiracy narrative that presented that issue to you, you end up with a very wrong grasp of that small part of the truth the claim is discussing. (For context on Chief Palmer's quote, I recommend you read some other sources, such as this thread here (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96116) where some firefighters joined in and explained how much capacity two lines truly represented.).

Now, you mention other questions. You stated that you "... left the official line when questions raised about the response (victim's family members raised alot of those initial concerns), questions raised about the large spread of debris in Pennslyvania, and lack of it at the Pentagon, and questions about surprising destruction of the towers". You also stated that you found the answers unsatisfactory. Did you really find the answers, or just the conspiracy peddler's misrepresentations of those answers? Again, I point at the example of the towers falling without the steel melting as one where the truth is poisoned by the mere dishonest framing of the question. After seeing you try to paint common and expected particles as significant, after seeing you compare large but otherwise common structure fires to the largest structure and, post collapse, largest debris pile fire since Hiroshima and Nagasaki, after seeing you misstate the mistruth about fire sizes and actually error out on Chief Palmer's quote, and after seeing you so blithly buy into the fantasy of "nanocomposites", I wonder if the sources you depend on for the information you've given so far are being honest about the portrayal of the Shanksville crash or the Pentagon impact. Let's deal with Shanksville momentarily: What was wrong with the "large spread of debris in Pennsylvania"? Much of the heavy debris was not spread out so far; the lighter objects, like paper and fabrics, were indeed found futher away, some as far as 1-1/2 miles away near Indian Lake. I don't know if you were heading in this direction, but other people who've brought up the size of the Shanksville debris field generally are trying to work towards an argument that Flight 93 was shot down. That's usually the core claim that these questions build towards, and that issue is where efforts are best spent. In sum, the flight data recorder information shows that the jet was in fact functioning normally all the way into the ground (more info). So, does your objection to the size of the Shanksville debris field indicate a disbelief in the narrative that Flight 93 crashed? Because there's a huge burden of proof that must be met to overcome the current body of proof indicating that Flight 93 did indeed crash there, and did in fact do so because of the hijackers actions.

I can write a similar paragraph touching upon the Pentagon, and the plethora of proof that Flight 77 did indeed crash there, but this post is already too long, and I'm only assembling info found in and through this forum anyway. You can search for that as easily as I can.

At any rate, I don't really see any worthy objections so far. I see incredulity over the physics of the collapse, and presentation of other points that are either devoid of accuracy (the size of the fires, the color of the smoke), devoid of context (the statements about what's expected from mundane structure fires), or with entirely invented context (the molybdenum spherules, aluminosilicates). But I don't see a willingness to truly study the issues, only a willingness to push the conspiratorial narrative. It's fine to defend a thesis, but it's necessary to accept when data negates such. Can you accept that your current points regarding the fire sizes are wrong? And that you're mistaken regarding the significance of the smoke's color? Because those two points of your argument are wrong, and while they themselves don't undo the whole conspiracy thesis, they are erroneous data points that must be discared. Just like our own years-past points of diesel fuel from the emergency lines in WTC 7, and pancaking collapse initiation; those poins are now considered incorrect too, and we readily accept that. Can you discard your own errors in the interest of improving the accuracy for your own argument?

In the end, it's not enough to note that questions are being raised. Those questions and the context behind then have to be evaluated every bit as skeptically as the NIST, FEMA, 9/11 Commision, and other "official" claims. If they're not, then simply going from belief in the "Official Story" to belief in the alternate narrative isn't really an indication of enlightenment. It's merely a sign of bending with the wind.

Many of the initial questions the family members had were around, why no NORAD response to the hijackings? As is amply documented the story changed from NORAD and FAA at least three times. Completely from the standpoint of someone who lost a daughter, son, husband or wife, the question was a legitimate one, and one that to this day has not been answered. It is still a legitimate one, given many of the documented facts that are in the public record and without dispute. In the end, this question has been punted on by the government. Maybe to cover for gross or criminal incompetence, but if so, one might think someone would have been prosecuted or held accountable. Family members and several well placed people, including some members of the 9/11 Commission, believe the true story is being covered up. The context of this question is nothing out of the ordinary. It is legitimate.

The fire chiefs sent their men and women into the towers based on their expertise in assessing risk. The completely unexpected disintergration of the towers took them by surprise, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of those men and women. The NIST investigation narrowly focussed on the effects of damage and fire, looking for a plausible explanation to the disintergration of the buildings. They provide much good data, but the conclusions they have drawn do not fit with the data they refused to even look at. In the end, this investigation did not explain the disintergration. They have stated, " we cannot explain the total collapse..." and indeed, they can't. They have let the other "experts" surmise what caused that, remained silent and left the gaping holes in our understanding wide open. They gave a non-answer as an answer, sequestered the data, documentation, and parameters they used to arrive at their non-answer, forbid their scientists from engaging in any public discussion. Any questions, such as those that prompted Quinteire, an advocate of a more open forum, to announce the data should be independently evaluated, are shortcircuited and though legitimate not addressed. The context of these questions is perfectly legitimate.

The black boxes from both Shanksville and the Pentagon are lacking in their identifying serial numbers in the official record of the NTSB. The FBI has admitted that they did not positively ID the planes through matching the black box serial numbers with the manufacturer's records of other component serial numbers. This is revealed in a FOIA request, and the correspondence associated with that request. A judge has told the FBI provide the documentation ID'ing the planes, or provide a reason why they can't.

You can track all of the court documents regarding this legitimate controversy over the plane ID's, starting here, and working back through the history:

http://www.911blogger.com/node/16762

The NTSB states in response to one request:

"This letter responds to your FOIA request, dated July 11, 2008, which you requested copies of records revealing the process by which wreckage recovered from the aircraft used during the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, was positively identified as belonging to; American Airlines flight 11 (N334AA), United Airlines flight 175 (N612UA), American Airlines flight 77 (N644AA), and United Airlines flight 93 (N591UA). Unfortunately, the NTSB doesn't have any records regarding the above requested information."

In another response from the FBI:

"Since being served with the Summons and Amended Complaint, Federal Defendant, with assistance of its attorneys, has analyzed Plaintiff’s request and conducted a searched for responsive records. Federal Defendant has determined that there are no responsive records. The identities of the airplanes hijacked in the September 11 attacks was never in question, and, therefore, there were no records generated “revealing the process by which wreckage recovered by defendant, from aircraft used during the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, was positively identified by defendant . . . as belonging to said aircraft . . .” (Amend Compl. Inj. Relief #15 at 1.)

It is all in this record. There are very large, legitimate questions surrounding the identities of the planes alledged to have been used. None of this is out of context. Claiming folks like me are out of context with our questions, is nothing more than your opinion, which given the evidence that legitimate questions exist and have been unanswered, it is your opinion that is out of context. You are blowing in a foul wind, relying on the official story to answer everything for you....
 
Not DeShore

I think this might be what he's referring to (spun version here). The detail that you won't hear truthers advertising is that if you check the timeline, the part where she reports explosions actually occurs well before the collapse. Naturally, reports at ground level of explosions pre collapse don't jive with any CD mechanism that would cause the top-down collapse that was observed, so I don't see how this supports any conspiracy theory.

Capt. DeShore is not the person, although her testimony is also very valuable. Being a captain, and the experience that implies, she is also a credible witness. And ground level explosions are perfectly consistent with CD, top down or not. Dislodging lower members of the internal structure is not at all inconsistent with typical demolitions. Why would it be in an atypical demolition?

The former military policewoman is discussed at the end of Graeme McQueen's talk at the University of Waterloo in March of this year.
 
Wow, more stupid packed into one post. The parroting of "Truth Movement" lies continues.
Many of the initial questions the family members had were around, why no NORAD response to the hijackings?
Such an outrageous lie that has been covered so many times, no link is even necessary. Do you even know what the word research means?
 
Many of the initial questions the family members had were around, why no NORAD response to the hijackings? As is amply documented the story changed from NORAD and FAA at least three times. Completely from the standpoint of someone who lost a daughter, son, husband or wife, the question was a legitimate one, and one that to this day has not been answered. It is still a legitimate one, given many of the documented facts that are in the public record and without dispute. In the end, this question has been punted on by the government. Maybe to cover for gross or criminal incompetence, but if so, one might think someone would have been prosecuted or held accountable. Family members and several well placed people, including some members of the 9/11 Commission, believe the true story is being covered up. The context of this question is nothing out of the ordinary. It is legitimate.

The tapes are out there for everyone to listen to. Have you?

sdemetri said:
The fire chiefs sent their men and women into the towers based on their expertise in assessing risk. The completely unexpected disintergration of the towers took them by surprise, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of those men and women. The NIST investigation narrowly focussed on the effects of damage and fire, looking for a plausible explanation to the disintergration of the buildings. They provide much good data, but the conclusions they have drawn do not fit with the data they refused to even look at. In the end, this investigation did not explain the disintergration. They have stated, " we cannot explain the total collapse..." and indeed, they can't. They have let the other "experts" surmise what caused that, remained silent and left the gaping holes in our understanding wide open. They gave a non-answer as an answer, sequestered the data, documentation, and parameters they used to arrive at their non-answer, forbid their scientists from engaging in any public discussion. Any questions, such as those that prompted Quinteire, an advocate of a more open forum, to announce the data should be independently evaluated, are shortcircuited and though legitimate not addressed. The context of these questions is perfectly legitimate.

NIST have explained the total collapse in their FAQ's maybe you should have researched them before making false accusations. They give calculations and explain why the collapse did not arrest.

NIST also sent out some of their samples to independant labs for testing and the labs agreed with NIST findings. Maybe you did not read this part of NIST report?

sdemetri said:
The black boxes from both Shanksville and the Pentagon are lacking in their identifying serial numbers in the official record of the NTSB. The FBI has admitted that they did not positively ID the planes through matching the black box serial numbers with the manufacturer's records of other component serial numbers. This is revealed in a FOIA request, and the correspondence associated with that request. A judge has told the FBI provide the documentation ID'ing the planes, or provide a reason why they can't.

NTSB did not do an aircraft accident investigation. They helped the FBI investigation. The identification of the planes is in no doubt except to a few nutjobs on the internet. Even if the NTSB did an aircraft accident invesigation they do not always list the serial numbers.

sdemetri said:
You can track all of the court documents regarding this legitimate controversy over the plane ID's, starting here, and working back through the history:

http://www.911blogger.com/node/16762

The NTSB states in response to one request:

"This letter responds to your FOIA request, dated July 11, 2008, which you requested copies of records revealing the process by which wreckage recovered from the aircraft used during the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, was positively identified as belonging to; American Airlines flight 11 (N334AA), United Airlines flight 175 (N612UA), American Airlines flight 77 (N644AA), and United Airlines flight 93 (N591UA). Unfortunately, the NTSB doesn't have any records regarding the above requested information."

In another response from the FBI:

"Since being served with the Summons and Amended Complaint, Federal Defendant, with assistance of its attorneys, has analyzed Plaintiff’s request and conducted a searched for responsive records. Federal Defendant has determined that there are no responsive records. The identities of the airplanes hijacked in the September 11 attacks was never in question, and, therefore, there were no records generated “revealing the process by which wreckage recovered by defendant, from aircraft used during the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, was positively identified by defendant . . . as belonging to said aircraft . . .” (Amend Compl. Inj. Relief #15 at 1.)

Its only controversial to nutjob truthers. Not to anyone else.

sdemetri said:
It is all in this record. There are very large, legitimate questions surrounding the identities of the planes alledged to have been used. None of this is out of context. Claiming folks like me are out of context with our questions, is nothing more than your opinion, which given the evidence that legitimate questions exist and have been unanswered, it is your opinion that is out of context. You are blowing in a foul wind, relying on the official story to answer everything for you....

There are no legitimate questions regarding the identities of the planes unless you are an irrational person who lacks logic.

Most of this is a derail maybe you should start another thread.
 
Capt. DeShore is not the person, although her testimony is also very valuable. Being a captain, and the experience that implies, she is also a credible witness. And ground level explosions are perfectly consistent with CD, top down or not. Dislodging lower members of the internal structure is not at all inconsistent with typical demolitions. Why would it be in an atypical demolition?

The former military policewoman is discussed at the end of Graeme McQueen's talk at the University of Waterloo in March of this year.

What purpose would the explosions that occured at the same time as the aircraft impacts serve in a CD (atypical or not)?
 
Capt. DeShore is not the person, although her testimony is also very valuable. Being a captain, and the experience that implies, she is also a credible witness. And ground level explosions are perfectly consistent with CD, top down or not. Dislodging lower members of the internal structure is not at all inconsistent with typical demolitions. Why would it be in an atypical demolition?
That is so incredibly false. A ground level explosion is not even close to consistent from a top-down demolition. A ground level explosion is only consistent from a ground level demolition. Period. So, you've proven again that research is a completely foreign concept to you.
 
Many of the initial questions the family members had were around, why no NORAD response to the hijackings? As is amply documented the story changed from NORAD and FAA at least three times.

The story changing "at least three times" implies that there were at least four versions of the story told. Would you please either state what were some of the differences between the four stories, or admit that you're parroting a lie you read on a conspiracy website and couldn't be bothered to check because it supported your prejudices?

The NIST investigation narrowly focussed on the effects of damage and fire, looking for a plausible explanation to the disintergration of the buildings. They provide much good data, but the conclusions they have drawn do not fit with the data they refused to even look at.

Please list the data NIST refused to even look at, with links where possible. Ideally, these links should not be to the NIST report.


In the end, this investigation did not explain the disintergration. They have stated, " we cannot explain the total collapse..." and indeed, they can't. They have let the other "experts" surmise what caused that, remained silent and left the gaping holes in our understanding wide open.

Blatant misrepresentation of NIST's statement. Also, your requirement that a full explanation of every aspect of 9-11 should be available from a single source, and that work from other individuals which support NIST's conclusions should be ignored because the work was not from NIST, is at variance with humanity's approach to science since the Enlightenment.

The black boxes from both Shanksville and the Pentagon are lacking in their identifying serial numbers in the official record of the NTSB. The FBI has admitted that they did not positively ID the planes through matching the black box serial numbers with the manufacturer's records of other component serial numbers.

The planes were positively ID'd by other means, including continuous radar traces, DNA identification of passenger remains, and the simple but incontravertible fact that those were the only four airliners not otherwise accounted for. It's really very simple; one each of an AA 757, an AA 767, a UA 757 and a UA 767 didn't land at an airport that day.

It is all in this record. There are very large, legitimate questions surrounding the identities of the planes alledged to have been used. None of this is out of context.

None of the questions are legitimate, because all of them have been satisfactorily answered. The fact that you choose not to believe that these answers exist is a measure, not of the uncertainty surrounding the events of 9-11 in the minds of those who have studied it impartially, but the determination on your part to obscure the truth. Strange, though familiar, behaviour from those who claim to be truth seekers.

Dave
 
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