Merged Apollo 14 astronaut claims aliens HAVE made contact

[albie]

Considering you can only judge these things in a case by case way your opinion of them being delusional should wax and wane(if you are being scientific). If you have a set prejudice then I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have investigated and debunked so many of these things that you feel you can no longer afford any other view.

Like I said "Is there any debunking of these alien claims other than "hey. he's a woo woo."?"

You appear to be reiterating your opinion and not providing anything else.

Seems a bit sloppy. But then the amount of faith needed to disbelieve often equals the amount needed to believe.

 

[albie]

The forms of evidence are different. Some guy waving his hands about and saying he's curing my disease is one thing (dubious). A guy telling me he knows that aliens are amongst us is another. Judging the man's latter form of evidence because of the former is just lazy...if tempting.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Is there any debunking of these alien claims other than "hey. he's a woo woo."?

It's not the claim that needs debunking, but the evidence that's advanced in support of the claim. Since there is no evidence other than the unsupported word of a single individual, there is nothing to debunk. Occam's razor will serve here; either there is a massive lie kept secret by a huge number of people, or a single person is either lying or deluded.

Please note that Mitchell's claim is not that there are intelligent life forms on other planets, but that intelligent life forms from other planets are in continual contact with this one, and that this contact has been kept secret, not only from the general public, but from the scientific community. That's a far more exceptional claim than a general statement that aliens exist.

Dave

 

[albie]

So what you are saying is that you cannot debunk it. Which (to the scientific minded) leaves it open.
Any problems you with people keeping secrets is neither here nor there.

Occam's razor is such an unimaginative blunt tool. I really cannot understand why people on these forums use it like it isn't.

 

[albie]

People use the term 'deluded' too much too. Believing in psychic things is not strictly delusional. It is certainly not evidence enough that this man is so deluded that he could imagine or hallucinate people telling him about aliens being real. That would require a certain degree of mental illness that would be blatantly observable.
He COULD be passing on opinions that he's exaggerated. How he would have managed that, I don't know.
If he's lying then I fail to see why he would do that, unless he wanted to boost interest in his psychic camp.

 

[Dave Rogers]

So what you are saying is that you cannot debunk it. Which (to the scientific minded) leaves it open.

No, what I'm saying is that there's no credible evidence to debunk. Which (to the scientific mind) leaves it not worth bothering with.

It is certainly not evidence enough that this man is so deluded that he could imagine or hallucinate people telling him about aliens being real. That would require a certain degree of mental illness that would be blatantly observable.

What's your evidence for that claim? Are you an expert in diagnosis of mental illness?

Anyway, some would say that his espousal of various other non-evidence based beliefs is the blatant means by which that mental illness can be observed.

If he's lying then I fail to see why he would do that, unless he wanted to boost interest in his psychic camp.

If the entire US Government and the entire scientific community are lying, then I can see even less motive. So you've identified a plausible motive for one man to be lying set against the possibility that hundreds of thousands are lying with no plausible motive. I know which option I find easier to believe.

Dave

 

[albie]

""No, there's nothing different. Several of [the reports of the interview] that I've seen come around have some flaws in them. Some of the reports pushed it or spun it incorrectly. NASA had nothing to do with anything I've done. I wasn't briefed by NASA. There haven't been any sightings as a result of my flight service there, so if that part of it comes out on anything you've seen it is just totally wrong.

"My major knowledge comes from what I call the old-timers, people who were at Roswell and subsequent who wanted to clear the things up and tell somebody credible even though they were under severe threats and things -- this was back in the Roswell days. Having gone to the moon and being a local citizen out in the Roswell area some of them thought I would be a safe choice to tell their story to, which they did. Even though the government put real clamps on everybody, it got out anyhow.

"Subsequent to that, I did take my story to the Pentagon -- not NASA, but the Pentagon -- and asked for a meeting with the Intelligence Committee of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and got it. And told them my story and what I know and eventually had that confirmed by the admiral that I spoke with, that indeed what I was saying was true.""

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=843c71dec0ed26a06c51b3462d9b2400&topic=13855.15

Sounds pretty sane to me.

 

[albie]

"If the entire US Government and the entire scientific community are lying, then I can see even less motive. So you've identified a plausible motive for one man to be lying set against the possibility that hundreds of thousands are lying with no plausible motive. I know which option I find easier to believe."

LESS motive? Covering up alien contact at the orders of their superiors?

"What's your evidence for that claim? Are you an expert in diagnosis of mental illness?"

Evidence? Knowledge. Have you ever met anyone with mental illness? Someone who imagines meeting with the pentagon would probably have his pants around his ankles 24/7.
This is just obvious.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Sounds pretty sane to me.

Sounds pretty gullible to me. Basically a bunch of practical jokers spun him a line, he swallowed it, and took it to some Admiral who humoured him just to get him out of the office. Whatever you say, it's a single testimony unsupported by physical evidence, and it's worthless.

LESS motive? Covering up alien contact at the orders of their superiors?

You haven't established a motive for their superiors to give those orders, nor have you established that the entire scientific community works for the US government. Here's a hint: we don't.

Evidence? Knowledge. Have you ever met anyone with mental illness? Someone who imagines meeting with the pentagon would probably have his pants around his ankles 24/7.
This is just obvious.

Yes, I've met people with mental illnesses who've seemed perfectly normal. Your ridiculous hyperbole only serves to destroy your credibility.

Dave

 

[albie]

Motive? For keeping aliens secret? Come on. I'm sure you don't need me to come up with a few.

Gullible? Yeah. NASA scientists lying to astronauts about aliens, for a laugh. That doesn't sounds like a credible argument. The more I hear of the debunkers on this issue the more convinced I am that this spaceman has something.

"Yes, I've met people with mental illnesses who've seemed perfectly normal. Your ridiculous hyperbole only serves to destroy your credibility."

Oh, here come the insults. Getting a bit hot under the collar? Finding this a bit of a stretch for you?

You've met mentally ill people who have told you they met the pentagon and were actually astronauts capable of meeting with the pentagon, and they seemed normal? Course you have. I smell ********.

Give me an account of these normal mad people.

 

[albie]

"No, what I'm saying is that there's no credible evidence to debunk. Which (to the scientific mind) leaves it not worth bothering with."

So that's why there's a thread on here about it. Because you are not scientifically minded.

Way to discredit the entire forum.*)

 

[Dave Rogers]

You've met mentally ill people who have told you they met the pentagon and were actually astronauts capable of meeting with the pentagon, and they seemed normal? Course you have. I smell ********.

Now who's getting a bit hot under the collar? Deliberately lying about what I said in the post before isn't going to help your credibility either.

Give me an account of these normal mad people.

You first. Tell me about all these people you've met who can give cogent accounts of meetings with senior officers in the Pentagon and wear their pants round their ankles 24/7.

Dave

 

[Dave Rogers]

So that's why there's a thread on here about it. Because you are not scientifically minded.

If it took a significant amount of my time, I wouldn't bother. At the moment it's simply amusing. I'll be happy to ignore you if you'd prefer it. Just say the word.

Dave

 

[Drudgewire]

I trust Buzz Aldrin, the entire rest of the space program, and every bit of scientific evidence out there over one astronaut who wanted to perform psychic experiments on the flight and never met a woo he didn't like... and who has had 30 years to maybe snag one piece of physical evidence to convince us rather than just spouting craziness.

And I love it when someone stumbles in here and takes the world of a few crackpots over every bit of legitimate evidence to the contrary and then accuses the rest of the forum of being close-minded and gullible. It's sad of course, but in a hilarious sort of way.

 

[Alex Libman]

Yeah, it's my job here to find a way to blame the government for this, so, um, here are some Muse lyrics:

Open the skies over me I am waiting patiently I'll wait for a sign As conspiracys unwind Will you slam shut or free your mind? Or stay hypnotized When the Zetas fill the skies Will our leaders tell us why Fully loaded satellites Will conquer nothing but our minds I'm waiting patiently And I'll wait for the sign Carried through the centuries Secrets locked up Are loaded on my back And it weighs me down When the Zetas fill the skies It's just our leaders in disguise Fully loaded satellites Will conquer nothing but our minds I'm waiting patiently And I'll wait for the sign I'm waiting patiently And I'll wait for the sign

-- Exo-Politics, BH&R
​

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When the 9/11 and the "global warming" hysteria burns out and the powers that be need some other excuse to maintain and expand their grip on power, little gray men are not off the table...

 

[albie]

Mitchell was born in Hereford, Texas.[1] He was active in the Boy Scouts of America where he achieved its second highest rank, Life Scout. He obtained a Bachelor of Science degree in industrial management from Carnegie Institute of Technology in 1952.[1] The following year he joined the US Navy where he trained as a pilot and flew off the aircraft carriers USS Bon Homme Richard and USS Ticonderoga. Later he qualified as a research pilot and taught at the navy's research pilot school. While in the Navy he obtained a Bachelor of Science degree in aeronautical engineering from the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School and a Doctor of Science degree in Aeronautics and Astronautics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Mitchell

Does this guy sound stupid enough to be gullible? Probably smarter than most here. Who to be honest just cherry pick evidence to discredit as much as conspiracy theorists do. I've spent a year debunking conspiracy theories on several sites (all of whom I am now banned from) and the same mind set exists here with the opposing force.

It's really boring how close minded and unscientific some of you guys get.

I don't mind stuff like this being debunked. So long as you've actually done it.

 

[Drudgewire]

Does this guy sound stupid enough to be gullible? Probably smarter than most here.

So are most folks in the space program. Do you think every one of them is actively engaged in a cover-up except for one brave soul with a history of paranormal interests and nothing to back up his claims?

It's really boring how close minded and unscientific some of you guys get.

I don't mind stuff like this being debunked. So long as you've actually done it.

I don't mind stupidity on these forums, as long as... well, wait. I do mind stupidity on this forum. Welcome to ignore.

 

[albie]

"You first. Tell me about all these people you've met who can give cogent accounts of meetings with senior officers in the Pentagon and wear their pants round their ankles 24/7."

I've spoken with many nutters and not one of them retain their sense of reality for a few seconds. Not one would pass even a laymen's scrutiny. Apparently you think mad people can fool everyone around them. EVEN BEING FLOWN TO THE MOON. Passing the stringent pschological tests NASA would have conducted FREQUENTLY. They know what to look for. And apparently he is capable of founding an almost scientific foundation, despite the fact that he has delusions and hallucinations.
You find this likely.

No wonder you also think that seasoned NASA individuals with near top level security allowance would lie to Mitchell about aliens for a laugh.

I understand that you are fashioning your opinions of this subject on the spur, but come on. If I wasn't so disappointed I would probably laugh.

 

[albie]

"So are most folks in the space program. Do you think every one of them is actively engaged in a cover-up except for one brave soul with a history of paranormal interests and nothing to back up his claims? "

I think you underestimate the psychological hold such an environment like NASA would have on its workers.
Or the psyhcological deterrent such forums as these have on these workers when they DO come out and speak.

Look at you.

Have you signed the official secrets act? Have you found a high paid job at the heart of the government backed scientific community? No. At best you've got a job in admin in some office block.

Yet you try to fathom the mind sets of these people who are in the know. Arrogant and unconvincing. Don't get me wrong. I haven't been there either. We are as bad as each other. In the realm of theory though, we have no winners today.

 

[Architect]

Albie

If you want a debate on this, then the BAUT forum is the place for you. And I'm not being sarcastic or cheeky.