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Transgender Teen's Murder Suspect Snapped

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Jan 3, 2007
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I find it sad that some people are justifying the murder of Angie Zapata, a transgender teen. The murder suspect admitted to police that:

From the article said:
he asked Zapata outright whether she was a man or woman. "I am all woman," Zapata allegedly told him, according to the affidavit. He asked for proof and when she refused, Andrade told investigators, he "grabbed Zapata's genital area and felt a penis."
In the movie “Crocodile Dundee”, Paul Hogan did this to a woman he had been chatting up in a bar. It was played for laughs, but it just reinforces the idea that transgender women deserve to be humiliated and assaulted.
I believe we can make life safer and more dignified for transgendered people through education. By talking openly in our society about gender identity and sexual orientation we can dispel some of the stereotypes and phobias.

Angie Zapata didn't deserve to have her head smashed with a fire extinguisher, and the suspect doesn't deserve a cheering section.
 
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The only attempts at justification I see is in the comments, and someone said she was a predator. There's no evidence of that. Always the victim's fault, it seems.

If they were consenting, she wasn't a predator. Just because she "lied" doesn't mean killing her is justified.
 
People are just ignorant, intolerant, self richous bigots.


It puzzles me that people can be so hostile to fellow humans for no good reason...
 
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True.

This falls under the 'unwise but not culpable' category. Oral sex with strange men who think you're a woman [eta: biologically/genatalia-wise] is a dangerous game for transgendered people to play.

However, the actions of the murder are on his own head. He played the exact same game as Zapata (sex with strangers) and could have just walked away. The fact that Zapata unwisely chose to inteact with the brute in no way excuses his behavior.
 
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True.

This falls under the 'unwise but not culpable' category. Oral sex with strange men who think you're a woman [eta: biologically/genatalia-wise] is a dangerous game for transgendered people to play.

However, the actions of the murder are on his own head. He played the exact same game as Zapata (sex with strangers) and could have just walked away. The fact that Zapata unwisely chose to inteact with the brute in no way excuses his behavior.

Thank you, I spent a while trying to figure out how to say exactly that, and eventually gave up.

Wasn't her fault, but in no way did she bring her murder upon herself.
 
It amazes me the lack of knowledge and awareness that exists today to the point of ignorance. Unrelated to this particular story, I had to explain to a few cow-orkers just what transgendered meant including the difference between pre and post -op as well as hormonal. For many people transgendered still means gay men who wear woman's clothing feeding the further ignorant bigotry of homophobia.



Boo
 
There was story similar to this were a homosexual teen was murdered (though by a classmate for being to agressive with him). I'll try and find a link later.
 
OK... I can understand a guy feeling furious, and even violated to the point of violence. He was tricked into a sexual encounter that he would never have agreed to if he'd known that his date had a penis. If he had snapped and went into a 10 second burst of violence that had ended in unintentional death, I could even feel some sympathy for him. There is a place in the world for understanding and even forgiving that sort of action. We can pretend that transgendered people are "completely normal" and anyone who has ANY sort of negative reaction is the one with the problem... but that wouldn't be exactly true. There is a natural negative instinctive reaction that straight men have when it comes to anything and everything homosexual(I know "transgendered" doesn't mean "homosexual", but that's not really relevant here), if only I could find the study early in the morning. So yeah, I can see where if that had happened to me, I would certainly have felt a sense of being violated and betrayed in a way. And that could very possibly lead to violence, and the transgendered person would kind of deserve a punch in the head. If I had to grade it, I'd say it falls somewhere higher than a chick finding out that the doctor she's sleeping with is really unemployed, and somewhere below finding out that the person you had sex with has herpes and didn't tell you about it.

I think "gay panic" can get you out of up to four punches and/or two punches and a kick, and only if the whole finding out the other person is transgendered occurs in that 10 second window. After that I think the higher portions of your brain should have kicked in, and you ought to be in control of yourself. That goes out the window if the person you slept with tells you after the fact that they're a big Ann Coulter fan. ;)

That's nothing like what happened in this case, though. I'm pretty sure there's nothing about being weirded out by having a sexual encounter with a transgendered person, and even being enraged about the deception involved, that requires you to wait around their house for them to come home, beat them to death(and make sure they're dead!) and then steal a bunch of their stuff and their car too. If it had been me, I would have been so freaked out by it that I would have gotten out of there as fast as I could and pretended that the entire thing had never happened. I wouldn't have waited around with murder on my mind.
 
The only attempts at justification I see is in the comments, and someone said she was a predator. There's no evidence of that. Always the victim's fault, it seems.

If they were consenting, she wasn't a predator. Just because she "lied" doesn't mean killing her is justified.
Predation suggests force. The whole idea that you can be "seduced" against your will is absurd. Against your better judgement, maybe, but against your will, hardly.
 
(Sorry if this is a bit of a tangent, but I think it's close enough to warrent inclusion.)

This story was on the cover of Newsweek. The boy was young, very gay, very troubled and very agressive. That in no way excuses his murderer.

Thank you sir. Compuserve is being very stingy with bandwidth this morning and I was going to have to beg off providing a link.

I agree completely with the sentiment in your last sentence and more than completely with the one prior to it after hearing the story on NPR. He was failed by a problem I see with certain segments of the sexual minority population in America, which is confusing support with coddling or encouragement to act out.

{self snip rant about gays and lesbians co-opting bisexuals and even more so transgenders to say just this} the kid was obviously a mess and while his classmate deserves the murder charge, his enablers were almost as culpable.
 
i was nearly called as a juror in a similar case earlier this year.

there doesn't really seem to be a lot of sympathy for the murder victim here, either. i was never able to find an update on the case, just old articles.
 
First, before anyone suggest I'm taking a "blame the victim" attitude, I'm not. I'm transgendered, and have spent far too much time as part of the GLBT community to not fully understand the pressures and implicit threats that all "gender outlaws" live under every single moment. This is a tragedy, and a travesty; and the individual who killed her deserves the chair.

But...

Angie Zapata was an idiot. I'm not going to sugar-coat it, or apologize for saying it. She was an idiot.

Not in a "She was totally asking for it" way; but in a "How could she have so completely failed to see this coming?" way. She had lived in this community, was familiar with it's people and their attitudes; and should have known what kind of reactions were likely, particularly considering how long she had been openly identifying as female. Okay, she should not necessarily have expected to be killed outright, but she certainly should have been aware of the very high risk of a violent confrontation. The moment she was asked about her gender, a huge red flag should have gone up. It should have been a clear warning signal.

I've seen this happen far too often. Far too many transgendered individuals work very hard at deluding themselves that the world will see them exactly as they see themselves, physical realities be damned. The convince themselves that if they believe hard enough, then everyone else will, too; despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. But the real world doesn't work that way. It's one thing to work to change misconceptions, stereotypes, and prejudices, to educate and enlighten others; quite aFirst, before anyone suggest I'm taking a "blame the victim" attitude, I'm not. I'm transgendered, and have spent far too much time as part of the GLBT community to not fully understand the pressures and implicit threats that all "gender outlaws" live under every single moment. This is a tragedy, and a travesty; and the individual who killed her deserves the chair.

But...

Angie Zapata was an idiot. I'm not going to sugar-coat it, or apologize for saying it. She was an idiot.

Not in a "She was totally asking for it" way; but in a "How could she have so completely failed to see this coming?" way. She had lived in this community, was familiar with it's people and their attitudes; and should have known what kind of reactions were likely, particularly considering how long she had been openly identifying as female. Okay, she should not necessarily have expected to be killed outright, but she certainly should have been aware of the very high risks of a violent physical confrontation. The moment she was asked about her gender, a huge red flag should have gone up.

I've seen this happen far too often. Far too many transgendered individuals work very hard at deluding themselves that the world will see them exactly as they see themselves, physical realities be damned. The convince themselves that if they believe hard enough, then everyone else will, too; despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. But the real world doesn't work that way. It's one thing to work to change misconceptions, stereotypes, and prejudices, to educate and enlighten others; quite another thing entirely to act as if prejudices simply don't exist. You can argue endlessly that "biology is not destiny", and that "what's between one's legs", and you may even be right; but when you get right down to the core of the matter, for the majority of people, these things do matter. Right or wrong, they do. Transgendered individuals are not even universally accepted among gays and lesbians (hell, bisexuals are not universally accepted); so how can one possibly expect to be unquestioningly accepted among the mainstream?

Brazenly springing this sort of thing on someone, particularly a complete stranger, without any warning whatsoever, at a moment when irrational physical responses greatly outweigh reason, is inviting disaster. It's stupid, and worse, it's manipulative and dishonest. She was pretending to be something that she, quite frankly, was not. Demanding tolerance in day to day life is valid, worthwhile, and something I fully believe in. Demanding it unconditionally in an intimate personal encounter is, at best, dangerously naive.

This was not an attempt to enlighten, to change attitudes toward transgendered individuals. This was the sexual equivalent of a Jackass stunt. This sort of thing doesn't just hurt the individual, it hurts all transgendered people. It perpetuates a negative stereotype, and makes life that much more difficult for those of us who are fully honest about what we are.nother thing entirely to act as if prejudices simply don't exist. You can argue endlessly that "biology is not destiny", and that "what's between one's legs", and you may even be right; but when you get right down to the core of the matter, for the majority of people, these things do matter. Right or wrong, they do. Transgendered individuals are not even universally accepted among gays and lesbians (hell, bisexuals are not universally accepted); so how can one possibly expect to be unquestioningly accepted among the mainstream?

Brazenly springing this sort of thing on someone, particularly a complete stranger, without any warning whatsoever, at a moment when irrational physical responses greatly outweigh reason, is inviting disaster. It's stupid, and worse, it's manipulative and dishonest. She was pretending to be something that she, quite frankly, was not. Demanding tolerance in day to day life is valid, worthwhile, and something I fully believe in. Demanding it unconditionally in an intimate personal encounter is, at best, dangerously naive. In the case of Zapata, I believe it went beyond mere naivete. Zapata had a criminal record, theft and fraud. Like Brandon Teena, Zapata was not exactly an innocent victim. She was an unpleasant person who used others. But in cases like these, that sort of history often gets ignored or whitewashed.

This was not an attempt to enlighten, to change attitudes toward transgendered individuals. This was the sexual equivalent of a Jackass stunt. This sort of thing doesn't just hurt the individual, it hurts all transgendered people. It perpetuates a negative stereotype, and makes life that much more difficult for those of us who are fully honest about what we are.
 
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