General Eisenhower, a war criminal?

[Lensman]

No they are just sadistic and pure evil!!

Evidence?

& I don't mean your opinion.

 

[Sunni Man]

Evidence?

& I don't mean your opinion.

Just do a little research on ZOG and how the Zionist Jews put Israels interests above America's or any other country they reside in.

 

[gdnp]

It has always amazed me that this is a skeptics forum. Yet when it comes to the Holocaust. The people here want NO debate or discussion.
The standard version of the Holocaust is set in stone and doubting of the "official" version is forbidden.

If one wishes to debate in a skeptics forum, and one wishes to state a position that contradicts a mountain of evidence accumulated over 60+ years, one needs to do better than call it a hoax and claim your positions are not being given due respect. One needs to present evidence.

I believe the Allies, at the direction of the Zionists, had many of the guards killed so that they could hide the true evidence. And create the hoax now known as the Holocaust.

What you believe is irrelevant. I can believe that the moon is made of green cheese, and that will not make it true. Do you have any evidence to support this belief? That Zionists were issuing secret orders to soldiers to execute guards after surrender as part of a plan to create a hoax that Jews had been exterminated? While the war was still going on?

Many of the German SS guards were good people who were just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Now here is a perfect example. Do you have any evidence to support this assertion? Oscar Schindler-type reports from the prisoners who the guards snuck extra food, or helped escape, perhaps? Testimonials from prisoners about of the brave guards who refused to carry out orders, at their own peril? Or are you just a troll in Nazi clothing?

 

[gdnp]

Just do a little research on ZOG and how the Zionist Jews put Israels interests above America's or any other country they reside in.

You mean this guy:

Zog I, Skanderbeg III of the Albanians[1] [2] (born Ahmet Zogolli, later changed to Ahmet Zogu) (October 8, 1895 – April 9, 1961) was King of Albania from 1928 to 1939. He was previously Prime Minister of Albania (1922 - 1924) and President of Albania (1925 - 1928).

 

[Sunni Man]

Or are you just a troll in Nazi clothing?

Exactly what I was talking about.

If you even question a small part of the "official" version of the holocaust.

The name calling and attacks immediatly begin.

 

[SDC]

Paranoid much?

 

[dudalb]

It has always amazed me that this is a skeptics forum. Yet when it comes to the Holocaust. The people here want NO debate or discussion.
The standard version of the Holocaust is set in stone and doubting of the "official" version is forbidden.

Yeah you are right.The people here are also very close minded about the Earth being in the shape of a sphere.
The standard version of the Earth;s shape is set in stone and doubting of the "official" version is forbidden.
The time will come when the Flat Earth Society will be hailed as defenders of the truth.

 

[dudalb]

Evidence?

& I don't mean your opinion.

You do know the Eddorians are Jewish, Don't you?

 

[dudalb]

Once again, I am Not against the Jews. They are a very inventive and clever people.

It's the Zionists that I oppose.

Of course most people who use this line think that 90% of the Jews are dirty Zionists so it is sort of a distincition without a difference.

 

[applecorped]

No they are just sadistic and pure evil!!

Gosh! They are? Couldn't I say the same about you?

 

[Sunni Man]

Gosh! They are? Couldn't I say the same about you?

NO

 

[gdnp]

Exactly what I was talking about.

If you even question a small part of the "official" version of the holocaust.

The name calling and attacks immediatly begin.

We are still waiting for evidence to back up your assertions. Show us evidence that some of the guards were good people in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or that a Jewish conspiracy was responsible for the killing of guards that had surrendered. Are we supposed to believe these bold assertions just because you believe them?

 

[applecorped]

NO

Well, I'm glad we got that straight. You might want to stop giving people that impression.

 

[Athyrio]

General Eisenhower, a war criminal

Is everyone at least satisfied that Eisenhower had nothing to do with any killing of SS at this camp?

 

[Corsair 115]

...although Bomber Harris did get quietly shunted off to the obscure side of life.

I would argue the Strategic Bomber Offensive is something different and thus doesn't fall into the category being discussed here. Harris' biggest blunder, I would say, was in being a rigid ideologue and not adapting to the situation that existed later in the war.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Do you consider General Eisenhower to have been a war criminal?

He executed 300 SS camp guards after their surrender at Dachau concentration camp.

I say shooting prisoners is a war crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_concentration_camp

You seem to have missed the memo. The War Crimes deal after World War II was an exercise in Victor's Justice. Ike was a winner, so there was no victor from the other side to "do justice" on Ike. Given that under his hand tens of thousands died, both combatant and non combatant, being Supreme Allied Commander, it's a good thing for him that he won.

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

Dachau was Dachau.

They should not have been shot; they should have been hanged instead. Shooting is too respectful for criminals like those.

On a technical point: the little story told here about "the jewish guy" with the tommy gun is, if true, an example of a severe breach of discipline. That other such breaches were doubtless overlooked during the war does not excuse it, but one understands how it was overlooked within context of the time. Flip side is, technically, such a soldier is liable to charges under the UCMJ, and possibly a court martial, with the charge of manslaughter, murder, breach of fire discipline, or a host of other charges easily drafted.

What MaGZ is a bit too clumsy to spell out is the little old line about "it isn't so much the crime as the cover up" that gets the outrage going. If the above story is true, then his chain of command, from platoon sergeant to general to Patton to Ike, covered it up, and as such are as liable as LBJ for My Lai, using the Chain of Command's accountability as the rubric. Except, ya see, Calley was court martialed.

DR

 

[gumboot]

No skin off my nose. Then we can change it to: Anyone who voluntarily joined the SS overall previous to 1945 and after 1939 deserved at the very least a very long prison sentence, and better still a death sentence, along with all the higher Nazi judiciary -- the judiciary never saw action either, but certainly deserved death in most cases.

I agree completely. I've never claimed the guards in question didn't deserve to die.

Really? Goodness. I guess you can't be talking about the Russians then, even though they were part of the Allies.

The Russians weren't really on our side. It was an "enemy of my enemy" scenario.

And whether or not the Allies would have won WW2 without the Russians .... can o' worms.

I have oft argued (convincingly, I feel) that the winner in World War Two was the American industrial machine. But that's a topic for a different thread.

I guess you can't be talking about the French Resistance, or the Polish Resistance, or the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising Jews either, since a fair few of all of those did some killing with no formal trial beforehand.

I'm sure all sides did some unlawful killing here and there, some more than others. What's your point? That doesn't excuse the fact that the killing was unlawful.


Whi

ch particular one? You do mean singular, don't you? Or not?

Obviously not. It's a typo. Don't be childish.

In any case, Guantanamo Bay has absolutely no relevance at all to the Dachau incident.

It has relevance to your attitude that anyone you perceive to deserve death should be summarily executed without trial. The only reason you don't hold the same opinion regarding the people at Guantanamo Bay is because you don't think they deserve death. Others do.

The entire point of the rule of law is to ensure a person's personal opinions don't come into it.

All actions on that day can be seen as being "in the heat of the moment". Any legal trial of those concerned would have had to take the actions been in the heat of the moment into account, or be a complete travesty of justice.

The murders in question happened well after combat had ceased. The incident was investigated and the investigation found that there was strong grounds that the specific killings in question were not in the heat of the moment and did constitute murder. Hence the recommendation to proceed with court martials.

These two dozen or less murders were far from the only Germans killed at Dachau, and the report identified these as murder, not the others. (For example some Germans were under fire, attempted to surrender in the heat of the moment, and were shot - totally legitimate killing).
.

Moreover, the number of guards who died that day may be as few as 30; the figure of 300 -- 100x as many -- is the typically-inflated figure often given by neonazis.

See my first post on this thread. I'm well aware that probably less than 20 Germans were murdered.

It is no surprise that MaGZ, who hates Jews and blacks, should seek legitimacy for the Nazis by attacking Eisenhower about something that was none of Eisenhower's personal fault at all, using grossly inflated figures.

No, no surprise at all. We are talking about MaGZ after all.

 

[SDC]

Look, it's probably pointless for me to say this, but all should remember that surrendering in wartime is not a casual walk in the park. My father-in-law was captured in early 1945 with a US mobile hospital and recalls everything associated with that (and the next 4-5 months) as terrifying, though the only injury he had came after his return to the US. (Another soldier tripped over his bunk, and he ended up with a torn knee cartilege. If you have to have a war injury, it's a good choice.)

Historically speaking, it's often said that the most dangerous time for POW's is from surrender till arrival in whatever sort of detention facility. In the interim, well....

I say this strictly from listening and reading. I am very glad never to have seen wartime and at my age it's unlikely I'll be subject to any drafts. And if I volunteered I'd probably be gently led away and offered ovaltine.

 

[Lensman]

Just do a little research on ZOG and how the Zionist Jews put Israels interests above America's or any other country they reside in.

Don't Muslims put Islam above the interests of any country that they reside in?

Pot - Kettle, Kettle - Pot.