Hello, everyone.
The other thread has reached seventeen pages and become so muddied I can't even tell what's going on anymore. So, since the protocol discussion for this particular applicant has become so publicized, I thought we should probably move threads if we plan to discuss it on the forum.
Please keep on topic in here especially. Any information on Pavel or questions for him regarding his ability should be directed to the other thread, located here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82062
In negotiating this protocol, there have been three major issues.
Firstly, the ability doesn't seem to be that strong: we cannot use a small number of photographs for a single trial, and Pavel has suggested instead that we use a massive number of photographs divided into small groups, and then smaller groups, and then smaller groups until he is identifying pairs of photos out of groups of five (and all groups of five are the same).
The number of photographs needed for the test as Pavel has written it is simply unrealistic. I have run this information by other JREF staff as well as the JREF statistician consultant, and everyone agrees that it will be difficult (if not impossible) to control the test once it reaches those numbers.
If we have 300 photographs in identical envelopes divided into groups of five and the tester drops them, for example, we would have to open them all and start over.
Not only that, but this version of the test would also be expensive for Pavel. He would, of course, have to pay the cost of printing, the cost of all the envelopes, etc.
One of the most important things we're focusing on now is getting the number of photographs required for the test down to something a little more manageable.
There are also some communication problems. There is a language barrier between Pavel and the JREF, and at times, it really shows. Parts of the protocol, for example, were incomprehensible.
If there is a volunteer who would like to rewrite protocols or clarify communications, that would be very helpful.
We also need to keep in mind that no matter what protocol is decided upon here, Randi still has to approve the final copy, and he has the ability to change any aspect of it.
I say again - arguing for the high number of photographs will not move this process forward. JREF staff has already decided that the complexity of such a test would be too high.
We need to find another version of the protocol. Feel free to weigh in.
Pavel, to be clear, must you use photographs? Can we use Zener cards? Can we use photographs *of* Zener cards? Or are those too similar? What is the maximum number of photographs you can identify in a single set? Just pairs, or can we go any higher at all? How long will it take to identify each photo? Will you be identifying both photographs in the pair, or only one? Do the photos have to be inside of envelopes, or can they be inside something resealable, like a box? Will you be asking to see the result of your readings after each individual envelope, or after each pair?
I know you have answered many of these questions before, but at this point we have discussed so many protocols and so much of the information is in that thread, that we just need to have the answers in one place without any additional information.
Thanks,
~Remie
The other thread has reached seventeen pages and become so muddied I can't even tell what's going on anymore. So, since the protocol discussion for this particular applicant has become so publicized, I thought we should probably move threads if we plan to discuss it on the forum.
Please keep on topic in here especially. Any information on Pavel or questions for him regarding his ability should be directed to the other thread, located here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82062
In negotiating this protocol, there have been three major issues.
Firstly, the ability doesn't seem to be that strong: we cannot use a small number of photographs for a single trial, and Pavel has suggested instead that we use a massive number of photographs divided into small groups, and then smaller groups, and then smaller groups until he is identifying pairs of photos out of groups of five (and all groups of five are the same).
The number of photographs needed for the test as Pavel has written it is simply unrealistic. I have run this information by other JREF staff as well as the JREF statistician consultant, and everyone agrees that it will be difficult (if not impossible) to control the test once it reaches those numbers.
If we have 300 photographs in identical envelopes divided into groups of five and the tester drops them, for example, we would have to open them all and start over.
Not only that, but this version of the test would also be expensive for Pavel. He would, of course, have to pay the cost of printing, the cost of all the envelopes, etc.
One of the most important things we're focusing on now is getting the number of photographs required for the test down to something a little more manageable.
There are also some communication problems. There is a language barrier between Pavel and the JREF, and at times, it really shows. Parts of the protocol, for example, were incomprehensible.
If there is a volunteer who would like to rewrite protocols or clarify communications, that would be very helpful.
We also need to keep in mind that no matter what protocol is decided upon here, Randi still has to approve the final copy, and he has the ability to change any aspect of it.
I say again - arguing for the high number of photographs will not move this process forward. JREF staff has already decided that the complexity of such a test would be too high.
We need to find another version of the protocol. Feel free to weigh in.
Pavel, to be clear, must you use photographs? Can we use Zener cards? Can we use photographs *of* Zener cards? Or are those too similar? What is the maximum number of photographs you can identify in a single set? Just pairs, or can we go any higher at all? How long will it take to identify each photo? Will you be identifying both photographs in the pair, or only one? Do the photos have to be inside of envelopes, or can they be inside something resealable, like a box? Will you be asking to see the result of your readings after each individual envelope, or after each pair?
I know you have answered many of these questions before, but at this point we have discussed so many protocols and so much of the information is in that thread, that we just need to have the answers in one place without any additional information.
Thanks,
~Remie
as by asking each other questions and replying to them and explaining each other things.. though it might take time.. still it will get us closer to the point of designing a good test.
