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I can't see why they bother with the "Flight 93" conspiracy.

Oh I think plenty on my own, but when it comes to a field that is out of my area of expertise, I rely on the collected evidence, and the collective wisdom of numerous experts that were part of the investigation.

That is the smart, rational, grown up thing to do...how do you approach it?

Oh yah, I forgot, you just google it.

TAM:)
 
Dictator Cheney said:
is there any evidence that they found bodys in the crater?
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Did they find bodies in the Valujet 592 crash in the Florida everglades? Or did they just find small pieces? They were never able to identify all of the passenger remains from that crash, so since flight 93 had similar circumstance does that make both a conspiracy? Hell there was a lot of the plane that they couldn't recover in the everglades, Flight 93 seems to be a big success compared with that in terms of recovery...


WRECKAGE AND IMPACT INFORMATION: The primary impact area was identified by a crater in the mud and sawgrass. The crater was about 130 feet long and 40 feet wide. Most of the wreckage debris was located south of the crater in a fan shaped pattern, with some pieces of wreckage found more than 750 feet south of the crater.

The majority of the wreckage was recovered by hand and placed on airboats that transported the pieces to a nearby levee for decontamination. The pieces were then transported by enclosed truck to a hangar for examination

The airplane structure was severely fragmented. In general, fewer pieces of right side forward fuselage skins were identified, and pieces from the right side were generally more fragmented. The majority of identified pieces were from the wing and fuselage aft of the wing box.

Examination of the engines revealed no signs of inflight or preimpact failure.

The tires and wheel assemblies from the landing gear system of the accident were recovered. The tires exhibited numerous rips and tears. Main landing gear actuators were found in positions corresponding to retracted landing gear.

The majority of both the left and right wings were recovered.

Most of the right and left horizontal stabilizers were recovered in fragments, including center sections, spars, skin panels, and both hinge fittings. No marks were found to identify pitch trim or elevator orientation at the time of impact with the swamp.

Several pieces of the rudder were recovered. The largest piece measured 57 inches by 43 inches. The preimpact position of the rudder was not determined.

Passenger service units from the cabin were found with the oxygen masks in the stowed positions.

Three hand-operated fire extinguishers were found, all with severe impact damage. Because of the impact damage, laboratory analysis could not positively determine if the extinguishers had been used.

FORWARD CARGO COMPARTMENT: All recovered wreckage identified as being from the area of the forward cargo compartment was assembled into a full-scale, three-dimensional mockup. These pieces included the cargo floor, cargo liners, and fuselage structure. They exhibited soot and heat damage.

Cargo CompartmentAbout 50 percent of the forward bulkhead and about 25 percent of the aft bulkhead of the forward cargo compartment were recovered.

Recovered airplane wiring was examined for heat and fire damage and evidence of arcing. Heat and fire damage was observed on many of the wire bundles and cables that ran adjacent to the forward cargo compartment. The heat-damaged wires and cables showed no evidence of electrical arcing, and the burn patterns on those wires and cables were consistent with those resulting from an external heat source.
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Source
 
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John Blonn said:
I want to do an experiment here, if RedIbis would oblige.

Red, why do you believe that there were bodies discovered in the rubble of the towers?
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I don't mind obliging, but you're going to have to restate your question for clarity.
 
Well if you never saw the bodies yourself, as you are demanding with regard to flight 93 plane parts, then how do you know they actually found bodies???

You obviously are believing some source that has told you through media, that bodies were recovered...So then, why do you believe one source, concerning the bodies at GZ, but not belief another source, perhaps even the same source, with regard to plane parts at Shanksville?

I think that is the essence of the socratic lead you were given.

TAM:)
 
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RedIbis said:
I don't mind obliging, but you're going to have to restate your question for clarity.
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I think what Red is asking here is, he can't answer that question honestly, can you restate it so he can, using his gift of semantics, find a way to answer it and not actually admit to anything?
 
T.A.M. said:
Well if you never saw the bodies yourself, as you are demanding with regard to flight 93 plane parts, then how do you know they actually found bodies???

You obviously are believing some source that has told you through media, that bodies were recovered...So then, why do you believe one source, concerning the bodies at GZ, but not belief another source, perhaps even the same source, with regard to plane parts at Shanksville?

I think that is the essence of the socratic lead you were given.

TAM:)
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Talk about comparing apples and fig newtons. There were thousands of people in those bldgs before the plane crashes and bldg collapses. There are photos and video of bodies being removed from GZ. Is there anything similar from Shanksville?
 
Dictator Cheney said:
is there any evidence that they found bodys in the crater?
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I think I hear the sound of Goalposts being moved.
Frankly, Gandhi would turn over in the Ganges that a total wackjob is using him as an atavar to try to gain sympathy for his crap.
 
Truthers:

Do some REAL research. Contact the folks that were there. You know you won't. But just in case... here are some names and contact information. (thanks Gravy)

Paul Sledzik, Curator Armed Forces Institute of Pathology National Museum of Health and Medicine
Leader of flight 93 Disaster Mortuary (Team DMORT) Emil: sledzik@email.afip.osd.mil –

Dr. Dennis C. Dirkmaat, Chief Scientific Advisor to Somerset County Coroner's office in the flight 93 investigation; Director, Applied Forensic Sciences Department, Mercyhurst College, 501 E. 38th St. Erie, PA 16546 Email: dirkmaat@mercyhurst.edu –


Disaster Mortuary Team Main office: 1-800-USA-NDMS, ext. 205
DMORT Region 3 office (includes Pennsylvania) 410-676-4600

Wally Miller: Somerset County Coroner's Office: 555 Tayman Avenue, Somerset, PA 15501

you can also contact the many agencies that were there:

Shanksville Volunteer Fire Company,
Stoystown Volunteer Fire Company,
Central City Fire Department,
Berlin Fire Department,
Friedens Volunteer Fire Department,
Listie Volunteer Fire Company,
Somerset Volunteer Fire Department,
Somerset Ambulance Association,
Hooversville Volunteer Fire Department,
and the Hooversville Rescue Squad.

Shanksville Volunteer Fire Company Assistant Fire Chief Rick King

Shanksville Fire Chief Terry Shaffer

Former firefighter Dave Fox

Local FBI agent Wells Morrison

Jon Meyer, a reporter with WJAC-TV

Faye Hahn, an EMT

Rick Lohr: Director of Somerset County Emergency Management Agency


 
There were thousands of people in those bldgs before the plane crashes and bldg collapses. There are photos and video of bodies being removed from GZ.
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How many pictures and videos of bodies have you seen?
All the bodies?
By your logic, the actual count of those that died at GZ is exactly the number you have actually seen photos of.
Why are you relying on the MSM to tell you that many more than that actually died?
 
Mr.Herbert said:
Truthers:

Do some REAL research. Contact the folks that were there. You know you won't. But just in case... here are some names and contact information. (thanks Gravy)
Click to expand...
RedIbis won't be contacting any of them.

Correct Red? :rolleyes:
 
RedIbis said:
Talk about comparing apples and fig newtons. There were thousands of people in those bldgs before the plane crashes and bldg collapses. There are photos and video of bodies being removed from GZ. Is there anything similar from Shanksville?
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There are plenty of photos of the plane parts recovered from UA93. Gravy's links will direct you, if you can manage to use them (they seem to displease you so much). You simply do not trust the photos...correct? So we are back to square one.

TAM:)
 
T.A.M. said:
There are plenty of photos of the plane parts recovered from UA93. Gravy's links will direct you, if you can manage to use them (they seem to displease you so much). You simply do not trust the photos...correct? So we are back to square one.

TAM:)
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I've checked Gravy's links and no pictures show bodies being removed from the Shanksville site.
 
RedIbis said:
I don't mind obliging, but you're going to have to restate your question for clarity.
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Don't be obtuse; my question was quite clear. Anyhow, you answered it in the following posts.

There were thousands of people in those bldgs before the plane crashes and bldg collapses.
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Oh really? How do you know this? Did some shill tell you this? A member of the MSM? Rescue personnel's testimony? I want photographic proof.

OK Red, please present me with photos of every person who was 'alleged' to be killed in the towers collapse.

Why should I believe you, or "rescue personnel" or "FBI" agents. I want to see pictures of EVERY BODY. Otherwise how do I know it happened?

Your response, Red? Got some pictures? Or do you believe other standards of evidence are admissible in this instance?
 
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RedIbis said:
I've checked Gravy's links and no pictures show bodies being removed from the Shanksville site.
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Why do you think you have a body after stopping in 40 feet in 0.45 seconds. How many Gs is that? Oh, you got common sense, if your jet hit the ground at 600 mph, you jump to save your body! Why do you lack knowledge on Flight 93, the people who figured out 9/11 in minutes, and you can't in 6 years.

Got physics. No, you have hearsay and lies.
 
And actually, come to think of it, how do we KNOW planes crashed into the Towers?

We can't trust eyewitnesses, just like we can't trust the eyewitnesses of the wreckage of Flight 93.

Videos can be edited.

Red, show me pictures of plane parts in the towers. Otherwise, how do we know a plane crashed there?
 
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RedIbis said:
I've checked Gravy's links and no pictures show bodies being removed from the Shanksville site.
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The fact that the bodies were reduced to tiny fragments of human tissue means you get to win on semantics.
Quite a piece of work arent you?

The relatives were given what remains could be found for burial, maybe you should ask them to dig them up in order for you to personally inspect them.

Now, why do you trust the mainstream media to tell you about the true number of fatalities at GZ when you have only seen photographic proof of a few?
 
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