AA77 FDR Data, Explained

[WildCat]

also find other reports (not 9/11 related) and compare them, especially serial numbers.

there are also other FDR reports that do mention data lag, corrupted data, missing serial numbers etc. all the things we miss in the AA77 report

This is not an accident report! It is simply the FDR transcribed.

I know deliberate and willful ignorance is a requirement to be a truther, but sheesh!

 

[lapman]

But they don't always provide that stuff. You're trying to mislead people into thinking that normally the serial numbers are always collected and that flight 77 is the only time they weren't. This is completely untrue. Not to mention you are trying to compare accidents to a terrorist attack. The main difference being that in accidents more data is needed to try and determine the cause of the crash. In this case there was no question as to the cause of the collapse, it was simply a criminal investigation, NOT an accident investigation.

Can you provide some examples of planes being deliberately crashed by terrorists where they collected the serial numbers and all the rest of yoru requirements?

I asked the NTSB about serial numbers. The response is:

NTSB investigators rarely encounter a scenario when the identification of an accident aircraft is not apparent. But during those occasions,i nvestigators will record serial numbers of major components, thencontact the manufacturer of those components in an attempt to determine what aircraft the component was installed upon.

 

[DC]

lol

 

[Turbofan]

There is a conclusion about the FDR here, you're just ignoring it. That is that the FDR is not needed to know the AA77 crashed into the Pentagon along with the passengers and crew.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the:

- small entry hole
- lack of plane debris
- inconsistent impact damage to ASCE report
- inconsistent FDR data with official government theory
**several points within data
- contradicting witness testimony
- lack of supporting video / photo proof from Pentagon/FBI
- E4-B in proximity of White House shortly after explosion (CNN video), not mentioned in original commission report.
- lack of response from NORAD, although plane was tracked in restricted air space
- absence of full invesigation , or serial proof of parts from AA77
- original news broadcasts (archived) stating lack of plane debris
- Leroy's impossible cab with the bionic hood and a-pillars
- Mike Walter's BS story which contradicts the ASCE report

I could go on, but that should keep you busy.

 

[WildCat]

Oh yeah, I forgot about the:

- small entry hole
- lack of plane debris
- inconsistent impact damage to ASCE report
- inconsistent FDR data with official government theory
**several points within data
- contradicting witness testimony
- lack of supporting video / photo proof from Pentagon/FBI
- E4-B in proximity of White House shortly after explosion (CNN video), not mentioned in original commission report.
- lack of response from NORAD, although plane was tracked in restricted air space
- absence of full invesigation , or serial proof of parts from AA77
- original news broadcasts (archived) stating lack of plane debris
- Leroy's impossible cab with the bionic hood and a-pillars
- Mike Walter's BS story which contradicts the ASCE report

I could go on, but that should keep you busy.

I'm sorry, do you have any claims you're actually able to support?

 

[beachnut]

Must have been the NWO trimming trees with a jet engine, knocking a light pole on Lloyd England's taxi, and damaging the VDOT pole!


Such attention to detail, but they forgot to fake the data in the FDR correctly, or simply claim it was too damaged to get any data!

Hani had the tree trimming contract, he went crazy using a jet aircraft to finish his NWO government contract.

Turbofan and DC, are they saying someone cut the tree in the shape of Jet engine, planted the post in Loyd car, traffic was stopped, witnesses paid off, and all accomplices in murder? Doltish ideas come from 9/11 truth. Do these guys understand they can be committed on much less?

The only problem with DC and Turbofan, they do not understand what the meaning of, "I saw it hit the lamppost" is.

The fantasy has never been fully explained by these people with idiotic ideas.

 

[T.A.M.]

small entry hole

Debunked here at JREF...start reading.

- lack of plane debris

Debunked here at JREF...start reading.

- inconsistent impact damage to ASCE report

Debunked here at JREF...start reading.

- inconsistent FDR data with official government theory
**several points within data

Incorrect analysis of data, or faulty data...end of story...take it to someone who cares.

- contradicting witness testimony

Debunked here at JREF...start reading.

- lack of supporting video / photo proof from Pentagon/FBI

Lots of photos, just none that you like. The video part has been explained here at JREF, start reading.

- E4-B in proximity of White House shortly after explosion (CNN video), not mentioned in original commission report.

Not familiar with this one, but really I don't give a crap.

- lack of response from NORAD, although plane was tracked in restricted air space
- absence of full invesigation , or serial proof of parts from AA77
- original news broadcasts (archived) stating lack of plane debris
- Leroy's impossible cab with the bionic hood and a-pillars
- Mike Walter's BS story which contradicts the ASCE report

Debunked here at JREF...start reading.

TAM

 

[bje]

It's sure taking you a long time, Turbofan

Oh yeah, I forgot about the:

- small entry hole
- lack of plane debris
- inconsistent impact damage to ASCE report
- inconsistent FDR data with official government theory
**several points within data
- contradicting witness testimony
- lack of supporting video / photo proof from Pentagon/FBI
- E4-B in proximity of White House shortly after explosion (CNN video), not mentioned in original commission report.
- lack of response from NORAD, although plane was tracked in restricted air space
- absence of full invesigation , or serial proof of parts from AA77
- original news broadcasts (archived) stating lack of plane debris
- Leroy's impossible cab with the bionic hood and a-pillars
- Mike Walter's BS story which contradicts the ASCE report

I could go on, but that should keep you busy.

No, we're not investigating anything. You are. It includes this list you've had since CIT and P4T started:

Alexandria VA Fire & Rescue,
American Airlines,
American Red Cross,
Arlington County Emergency Medical Services,
Arlington County Fire Department,
Arlington County Sheriff's Department,
Arlington VA Police Department,
Armed Forces Institute of Pathology,
Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms,
DiLorenzo TRICARE Health Clinic staff,
DeWitt Army Community Hospital staff,
District of Columbia Fire & Rescue,
DOD Honor Guard,
Environmental Protection Agency Hazmat Teams,
Fairfax County Fire & Rescue,
FBI Evidence Recovery Teams,
FBI Hazmat Teams,
Federal Aviation Administration,
Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams,
FEMA 68-Person Urban Search and Rescue Teams Maryland Task Force 1, New Mexico Task Force 1,
Tennessee Task Force 1,
Virginia Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 2,
FEMA Emergency Response Team,
Fort Myer Fire Department,
Four U.S. Army Chaplains, Metropolitan Airport Authority Fire Unit,
Military District of Washington Engineers Search & Rescue Team, Montgomery County Fire & Rescue,
U.S. National Guard units,
National Naval Medical Center CCRF,
National Transportation Safety Board,
Pentagon Defense Protective Service,
Pentagon Helicopter Crash Response Team,
Pentagon Medical Staff,
Rader Army Health Clinic Staff,
SACE Structural Safety Engineers and Debris Planning and Response Teams, Salvation Army Disaster Services,
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers,
US Army Reserves of Virginia Beach Fairfax County and Montgomery County,
Virginia Beach Fire Department,
Virginia Department of Emergency Management,
Virginia State Police

Some Quotes:

You could see where the plane had gone in. It sheared off some of the light poles and those were on the ground. There were some plane parts around. We got right up to the building. The frustrating thing is you couldn’t get in because of the smoke. –Colonel John F. Roser, commander of the Rader Army Health Clinic at Ft. Myer, VA.

We could not see the plane. The only thing that we saw was a piece of the front skin with the “C” from American Airlines by the little heliport control tower.–Lieutenant Colonel Frank Bryceland

I rushed through Henderson Hall (a close-by Marine barracks) to the Pentagon. Along the way, debris of an airplane wing was on the grass. –Dr. Duong Nguyen, COL, MC (retired), physician

We noticed pieces of the aircraft that had landed inside the courtyard, and the FBI personnel were marking the location where each piece landed. –Colonel Jonathan Fruendt, Surgeon

But we did go right up by the helipad almost. You could see pieces of the airplane sitting there, and it looked like some cushions or some pieces. –Lieutenant Colonel Bernadette Close

At that point we were able to see the last part of the plane, where it stopped, basically. It was a big 8 by 10 or bigger, I’m just guessing, hole in the wall. You could see the tire, the landing gear, were just forward of it. There was a fire that was burning right up against the wall. –Sergeant First Class Reginald Powell, radiologist

I remember looking down the corridor, and you could see where part of the plane had busted through the wall, and the firefighters wouldn’t let us in. They were scared the entire wall was going to collapse. You could still see a tire and some unrecognizable little small portion of the plane. –Specialist Kristopher Leigh Sorensen, Medical Laboratory Technician

Firefighters Carlton Burkhammer and Brian Moravitz "spotted an intact seat from the plane's cockpit with a chunk of the floor still attached."

www.rense.com...

“We discovered cockpit wreckage at our feet while attempting to rescue people from a Navy operations area.”
www.geoffmetcalf.com...

“Shaeffer stood on a service road that circled the Pentagon between the B and C rings. A chunk of the 757's nose cone and front landing gear lay on the pavement a few feet away, resting against the B Ring wall.”
www.hamptonroads.com...

---------

Better get off your butt and get to work, Turbofan.

 

[TheRedWorm]

How about, for once, you give us your stance. Tell us, from takeoff to whatever happened, to the airplane that the rest of the world accepts hit the pentagon. Tell us, from instillation in said airplane to recovery inside the pentagon, what happened to the FDR. When and how was the data on said FDR modified. How were the debris and human remains planted?

Please do not direct me to a website that I already know doesn't answer my questions. Please do not waffle, obfuscate, insult, or dodge. This goes to the heart of any credibility you or those you represent have. I expect you to ignore it, but hey, people wouldn't play the lottery if no one ever won.

Here's Turbofan's take on what happened. It's actually quite conservative, I didn't even include paying off/threatening the FBI!

Flight 77 disappears from radar screens, and is replaced by either a "smaller plane" or a missile, above it which flys a Boeing E-4B. Making impossibly tight turns at high speed no other airplane is capable of, the "smaller plane" or missile strikes the Pentagon, while the E4B flys over the Pentagon. Teams of conspirators immediately swoop down on the scene, tearing light poles out of the ground, sticking one in Lloyd England's cab. Other conspirators tear up tree branches, knock over construction equipment and material, fences, and marking poles where they figure Flight 77 would hit if it had actually taken the flight path they programmed into the FDR, which the crack team of conspirators also planted in the Pentagon. Other teams of conspirators spread airplane parts all over the lawn of the Pentagon, inside the Pentagon, and in the alley beyond the C-Ring. They blow a hole in the C-Ring with a wall breaching kit for good measure. At the same time, other conspirators go inside the burning Pentagon and plant the remains of the Flight 77 passengers and crew, which have been ground into hamburger a short time earlier when Flight 77 was diverted to some other airport where everyone on board was killed.

All of this was done in broad daylight in front of hundreds of witnesses - from people on their way to work, to Pentagon employees, to firemen, paramedics, and policemen arriving on the scene. And nobody notices!

But there was one problem - one of the doofuses at the NWO accidentally programmed the flight path of the decoy plane into the planted FDR instead of the fllight path they would officially claim for Flight 77. The NTSB ignores these discrepancies, because they are also in on the conspiracy.

Everything is going smoothly until the crack team of FDR experts and researchers at the PfffT files a FOIA request and the NTSB turns over the incorrect data. Now they have blown the whole scheme wide open!

Well, wow. I assume that he has yet to correct you on any part of that narrative, implying that it is what he believes. Is what WildCat wrote an accurate summary of what your stance is, TF?

Well, TF?

 

[lapman]

TF, I would love to take a stand, but the ground won't stop moving here in the OC.

 

[nicepants]

We have questions based on the research. We must be better than the
boys at the NTSB if we found mistakes in flight data.

Using that logic, wouldn't we be better than pffffft, since we found mistakes in your data?

yeah read Lloyd England's interviews, and you know something is very wrong

...and what would that be?

 

[T.A.M.]

I sense a familiar stick drawing of a car and an oversized light pole will soon appear...

TAM

 

[jaydeehess]

http://www.faa.gov/education_research/training/

Again with the entire faa education site. Why do you find it so difficult to actually point to the section you believe that I should read? I asked for the section in which it teaches pilots to decode FDR data. You tell me that I asked for the page that tells pilots how to calculate altitude from pressure altitude.
Even given that if there is missing seconds from the flight and you have not interpreted the data correctly then you will be in error.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3888127&postcount=1304
(i have the above link now saved in my favorite places so each time you ask the same thing over and over, i'll just post the link for you again and again...)

Please understand that one does not write a technical paper based on a report stating 2+2=4.

Yes I have seen your press release. It is far from the dispassionate (thank you Myriad, that word fits perfectly) technical explanation of why you conclude that the FDR data does not describe a flight path that is illustrated by the physical evidence on the ground.

I have seen the list of MSM publications as well but the fact remains that you have not done any more than made assurtions. You have produced conclusions and sent them to MSM via this press release but have not bothered to show you work in clear, consise fashion. You claim that this is a matter of not showing a paper that explains that 2+2=4 but your press release is basically a paper in which you are saying that the answer is 4 and others say it is 5 without actually bothering to show what the actual equation is in the first place. If you say that the equation is 2+2 but another's interpretation of the same problem would make the equation 2+3 then you would be correct in stating that 2+2=4 while still being incorrect over all.

Please understand that you do not have the aeronautical knowledge to determine the simple calcuations made for true altitude based on pressure altitude as plotted by the NTSB. Please understand that we have contacted all of the above with our names, faces and professional reputations on the line (not just a phone call from Jeff Hill, you assume too much). Please understand that the NTSB/FBI refuse to correct, retract, refute, comment to anyone. Even you (if you ever try). This is unprecedented. Please understand the NTSB have also been petitioned through the FOIA by John Farmer why their data does not support the govt story and the NTSB still refuses to comment (i'd post link here but John deleted his blog, feel free to contact him directly for the letters). Please be advised the FBI/NTSB did not document/positively identify any of the 4 aircraft allegedly used on 9/11 as determined through the Freedom Of Information Act via Aidan Monaghan (google it).

Please note that I have stated that the technical paper illustrating errors in the FDR should also go to ICAO and the pilot's unions and if found to be correct then you would have the weight of those organizations behind you as well.
Certainly you are not going to tell me that those organizations do not have the expertise to determine if your conclusions are correct.

Please be advised you have asked the same thing over and over and have been told over and over it has been addressed and given links ad naseum.

Please understand that you and others have simply NOT answered the question nor can anyone point to the purely technical paper I have repeatedly asked be presented and that I have also stated that this paper would not be for me to approve or disapprove of. That you would waste so much effort continually argueing with anonymous internet posters rather than actually make the moves I suugest (as said above using the right tool) is simply amazing. You rail on about people making expert pronouncements while remaining anonymous but simply refuse to ask anything of any organization other than the NTSB and FBI and those nameless internet posters. Why are you making such a habit out of spinning your wheels?

Actuallly, you're wrong again. Strawman noted. You assume too much as usual. Jeff Latas was the first to point out the errors in the initial calculations

.

Well good on him. I note however that despite the fact that a proper application of high school physics would set that web page's calculations straight that PfT has instead to write a disclaimer saying that corrections are being worked on rather than actually correcting the calculations.

Please read this page, specifically the updates...

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/descent_rate031308.html

Yeah I read the updates. You have seen the corrections on the pages of JREF. When will you get around to correcting the PfT page. Hey, here's a thought, why not take the problem to a proffessor of physics and ask him to give the problem to his first year class.

I will add by saying we will be exposing R Mackey's intellectual dishonesty along with Myriad. Anti-Sophist, Beachnut, and Reheat dont get much of a mention as they have been thoroughly exposed aready and credibility is shot.

Again with this concentration on anonymous internet posters rather than actually using the right tools..........

Please understand if you are ignored in the future.

Of course I understand, you don't actually want what you claim you want, expert opinion from organizations that would have an interest in knowing that FDR data can be shown to be incorrect in at least one instance. ,,,, or at least your reticence in pursueing such organizations with a technical description of such instance in favor of battering against ONE organization and a phalanx of anonymous internet posters, would certainly suggest that.

Regards

 

[T.A.M.]

"credibility is shot"...I love it...with who? A bunch of moronic, insane, paranoid truthers.

Oh noes Mackey, Beach, ANti, what will you do now that your "truther cred" is shot to hell.

lol

TAM

 

[pomeroo]

also keep in mind that they made the report for another Agency. Normaly you try to provide asmuch information you can. but they left out important things they normally mention in theyr reports.
like Serial numbers, Part numbers, details about missing data or data lag.

When will you liars get around to explaining why your imaginary conspiracy neglected to fake video footage of the crash?

 

[T.A.M.]

When will you liars get around to explaining why your imaginary conspiracy neglected to fake video footage of the crash?

Now now Ron. You know the Supersekrit Evildoers were to busy planting the FDR with the fake data (that disproves their own story) to bother themselves with faking footage.

TAM

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Now now Ron. You know the Supersekrit Evildoers were to busy planting the FDR with the fake data (that disproves their own story) to bother themselves with faking footage.

TAM

And in order to frame the wrong country to convince us to go to war with a completely different country that had nothing to do with the original plot!

 

[WildCat]

It's a rich tapestry.

 

[nicepants]

When will you liars get around to explaining why your imaginary conspiracy neglected to fake video footage of the crash?

Why fake crash footage we've got the CIT disinfo campaign? We don't even have to PAY them!!!!

I gotta say, though...the finance department is really giving those of us on the pentagon attack planning team hell. They want to know why we couldn't just crash the plane into the building like the WTC team did. You wouldn't believe how many subcontractors we had to hire, to plant those light poles, threaten eyewitnesses, plant plane pieces, etc. That idiot who faked the wrong FDR data almost blew the lid on our plan. We probably would have faked some video of the crash...but we ran out of money on everything else. It's amazing what it costs just to install explosion-proof engines and a cloaking device on a 757...at least we got the faked phone calls free with purchase.

 

[tsig]

So you're claiming that the FDR is inadmissible as evidence against the
offical governement theory because?

Errors made by the NTSB?

Erroneous data recorded from several aircraft sensors?

What's your stance?

Wide.