AA77 FDR Data, Explained

[hxstamper]

I need a technical paper, of course. Shouting your accusations about missing seconds will have no effect on me or anyone of consequence. That's stating a conclusion without an argument. A technical paper making a technical argument that other technical experts can evaluate is required.

I was going to go through this whole post and show how you are completely lost, point by point....

But i dont have anymore time to play with JREFers today.. .so i'll just use the above.

We arent making the claims of "missing seconds". Those claims are from "Reheat", "Anti-Sophist", and "Beachnut" et al. You initially claimed the FAA makes the comment the data is missing seconds and that L3 should go after the FAA if L3 claims no more than a 0.5 sec buffer lag. You corrected your mistake regarding the FAA (the data wasnt provided by the FAA, rather the NTSB) and switched your claim to the NTSB. Which is also wrong.

Geeze, have you even read this thread? Do you even remember what you wrote?

The NTSB provided a "technical paper" in the form of pdf's, a flight animation reconstruction and csv file/data. We analyzed it as did your anonymous cohorts. It doesnt support the govt story. The NTSB/FBI refuse to comment. We both agree on that. P4T notifed the NTSB regarding their data, through various avenues (phone, email, FOIA) with their names, certificates, and professional experience. Your cohorts make excuses/use speculation/accept the NTSB providing what your cohorts claim is "error filled data" through the FOIA to the American public.

Some of you feel we werent "polite" enough basing your assumptions on one recorded call. I didnt realize getting to the truth had to be wrapped in a pretty bow, but other means were used as well, which were quite professional.

Our lists of experts continue to grow with our "peers" (aviation professionals). Your list of "experts" remains stagnant and anonymous while some of you are looking for free ground school in the form of a "technical paper" because you refuse to do your own research and/or educate yourself on something as simple as 2+2=4.

I apologize if you are unable to understand the basic concepts/fundamentals of aeronautical knowledge (pressure, true, radar altitude) and wish to have someone educate you, but as suggested before, there are flight schools for such an occassion. They charge by the hour. Feel free to bring the "Technical Papers" provided by the NTSB. Let us know how you make out.


Have a nice day folks. Try not to spend all your time arguing about people you think are "nuts".

 

[WildCat]

Oh, here's another tidbit on PfffT FDR expert John Lear: He thinks there's a secret navy Submarine base...

in Nevada...

under the desert...

accessed by a secret underground waterway from the Pacific ocean.

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/02files/Navy_Secrets.html#Nevada

Such are the experts at PfffT.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

hxstamper

And your groups lack of a technical paper is because???

 

[Turbofan]

More ignorance on your part again. Data output is not "interface." Again ARINC 429 is the data standard that the LRA-900 uses to format the data it transmits.

Wow, you are the king of spin and semantics! Fine, you can have that too...
but the more important aspect (that you try to hide) is that provides the
STANDARD necessary for communication.

Here is something you missed:
The plane was going how fast in ft/second?

YOu also missed that pressure altitude confirms RADAR Altitude. No need to
go down that road.

 

[lapman]

Wow, you are the king of spin and semantics! Fine, you can have that too...
but the more important aspect (that you try to hide) is that provides the
STANDARD necessary for communication.

Not trying to hide anything. That STANDARD does not cover the time it takes for the data to get from the sensor to the CPM.

YOu also missed that pressure altitude confirms RADAR Altitude. No need to
go down that road.

Ok, I sit corrected on that.

 

[Turbofan]

Not trying to hide anything. That STANDARD does not cover the time it takes for the data to get from the sensor to the CPM.
Ok, I sit corrected on that.

That's fine, we'll deal with latency/propagation in due time. I'm just getting
tired of justifying the words used to state a point.

Back to the FDR discussion please.

 

[lapman]

That's fine, we'll deal with latency/propagation in due time. I'm just getting
tired of justifying the words used to state a point.

Back to the FDR discussion please.

Then stop misusing the words. The issue is that it has been proven in other crashes that data can be lost before it's recorded into CPM.

 

[Turbofan]

Not trying to hide anything. That STANDARD does not cover the time it takes for the data to get from the sensor to the CPM.
Ok, I sit corrected on that.

Then stop misusing the words. The issue is that it has been proven in other crashes that data can be lost before it's recorded into CPM.

Not without some sort of power loss! Nobody here has given a reasonable
explanation of how AA77 could lose power before impact.

 

[beachnut]

Im the "lover" of Balsamo? ... ....

I suspect you are his only lover! Your sex life, or lack of, not related to FDR. This means you are too easily distracted, no wonder you have no theories, you can't concentrate making your theories, or calculate your 11.2 G failure fiasco flawed physics web page. Some with real information would stick the facts, present some so we can all post to your failed ideas. You have no clue on the FDR, you cherry pick and quote mine, and lack any logic to see your FAILURE. 11.2 G is the best you can do on 9/11.

You have posted exactly like Balsamo, your only purpose it to get people to post so you can report, report, report them. You act exactly like Balsamo the typing challenged front man for implied false ideas on 9/11, and zero theories. If you were busy posting the Pulitzer Prize winning data, you would not have time to quibble and report people. We should report the fact you can't do physics and your 11.2 G is displayed as proof.

I think you have something for me, after implying no one at p4t talks about me, you have proven beachnut is used in a lot of your posts. How many more have you added since your return. I doubt you can do without talking about me, you have no theories to talk about so you talk about me and make up lies about me. Your posts are lies and false.

At least you are consistent, nothing new, no theories, no clue, no real purpose but to rake in the DVD sales which must be drying up fast. Your ideas are false, your reason to exist is to sell DVDs. Your p4tf, is a wasteland, as you close the threads when someone asks questions. You will have to start a new forum to hide your failure, but it will be empty, save a few people who share your idiot views on 9/11.

Since you have no theory on anything, I see why your posts are void of FDR facts. Turbofan is trying, but only because p4t have mislead him to think 77 did not hit the Pentagon, a theory not backed by p4t, they are too bush selling DVDs and t-shirts.

 

[WildCat]

JREFers Beachnut, Anti-Sophist and others, anonymous self-proclaimed "experts", claim the NTSB is providing information through the Freedom Of Information Act to the American public which has "missing seconds", "altimeter lag", "rotated map", etc etc. But the NTSB fails to note such "errors".

The NTSB also doesn't claim the FDR recordings are complete and there are no missing seconds.

In fact, the NTSB didn't investigate the crash at all, since it wasn't an accident and it is the jurisdiction of the FBI.

NTSB Identification: DCA01MA064.
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). Please contact Records Management Division
Scheduled 14 CFR Part 121: Air Carrier operation of American Airlines
Accident occurred Tuesday, September 11, 2001 in Arlington, VA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 3/7/2006
Aircraft: Boeing 757-200, registration: N644AA
Injuries: 64 Fatal.
The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 are under the jurisdiction of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The Safety Board provided requested technical assistance to the FBI, and any material generated by the NTSB is under the control of the FBI. The Safety Board does not plan to issue a report or open a public docket.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
The Safety Board did not determine the probable cause and does not plan to issue a report or open a public docket. The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 are under the jurisdiction of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The Safety Board provided requested technical assistance to the FBI, and any material generated by the NTSB is under the control of the FBI.

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20020123X00105&key=1

All the NTSB did was transcribe the FDR data for the FBI, they didn't investigate any of it. So your claims that the NTSB won't acknowledge their "errors" is meaningless, since the NTSB didn't even do an investigation.

 

[Turbofan]

All the NTSB did was transcribe the FDR data for the FBI, they didn't investigate any of it. So your claims that the NTSB won't acknowledge their "errors" is meaningless, since the NTSB didn't even do an investigation.

Is the DMS the same as the PTB system?

So now that Pilot for Truth has studied the data that the NTSB decoded,
why wont the FBI answer their questions?

 

[lapman]

Not without some sort of power loss! Nobody here has given a reasonable
explanation of how AA77 could lose power before impact.

Until the latency is established, the power loss would be at the time of the crash and the data lost could still be in the FDAU buffers. You still haven't explained how a mid-air explosion could cause data loss, but flying into a building couldn't.

 

[D'rok]

Not without some sort of power loss! Nobody here has given a reasonable
explanation of how AA77 could lose power before impact.

Why would they? Based on the very reasonable info presented to you in this thread, losing power before impact is not necessary to explain data loss. For instance, data still in the buffer or in transmission would be lost at impact, and Anti-Sophist has definitively demonstrated that your 500ms TX figure only applies to part of the sensor-->CPM communication chain.

ETA: what lapman said.

 

[lapman]

Is the DMS the same as the PTB system?

So now that Pilot for Truth has studied the data that the NTSB decoded,
why wont the FBI answer their questions?

Who says that the FBI has any obligation to answer your questions?

 

[WildCat]

Is the DMS the same as the PTB system?

So now that Pilot for Truth has studied the data that the NTSB decoded,
why wont the FBI answer their questions?

Because the FBI is under no obligation to answer the questions of a fringe group with no expertise in the area they claim to be experts in.

The PfffT has the data, why won't they have it analyzed by an independent FDR expert who will issue a report on their findings? Yes, they will likely have to pay for it but they would gain credibility if their findings are corroborated.

 

[R.Mackey]

I will add by saying we will be exposing R Mackey's intellectual dishonesty along with Myriad. Anti-Sophist, Beachnut, and Reheat dont get much of a mention as they have been thoroughly exposed aready and credibility is shot.

You, of course, can only be referring to this post of mine which exposes the gross incompetence and irresponsiblity of Rob's previous work.

That was about four and a half months ago. It's been over four months since Rob has been promising to expose my "lies."

If there were any, surely you could have found it by now. I'm amazed that you continue to promise things that you cannot deliver.

Please understand if you are ignored in the future.

Regards

Are you posting on behalf of Rob Balsamo, hxstamper? The tagline above is distinctly his style.

Is that why Mackey refuses to debate anyone on your show or anywhere else?

I've made no such refusal. You are a liar.

There are individuals I have refused to debate, under conditions of their own specification, notably Ace Baker. But that's hardly the same thing.

I also point out that, with respect to the Pilots For Truth, no debate is warranted. Your inability to perform basic calculations, coupled with your inability to respond to criticism, exposes your total incompetence. Any face-to-face discussion will only reveal more of the same.

If you had anything worth talking about, it might be a different story.

 

[Turbofan]

Why would they? Based on the very reasonable info presented to you in this thread, losing power before impact is not necessary to explain data loss. For instance, data still in the buffer or in transmission would be lost at impact, and Anti-Sophist has definitively demonstrated that your 500ms TX figure only applies to part of the sensor-->CPM communication chain.

ETA: what lapman said.

What you, Anti and several others fail to understand is the data arrives
as an entire word. What ever values you see, are safe and current with
time referenced!

It is impossible for certain parameters to get stored while other go missing.
You would lose the entire word,or blocks of data.

 

[D'rok]

What you, Anti and several others fail to understand is the data arrives
as an entire word.

I seem to recall detailed diagrams and explanations of this very process posted by Anti. I'm certain he understands quite well.

ETA: I just reread Anti-Sophist's posts. I assume you are using the term "word" instead of "frame"? Is there any reason why a corrupted frame/subframe couldn't get written to CPM?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Is the DMS the same as the PTB system?

So now that Pilot for Truth has studied the data that the NTSB decoded,
why wont the FBI answer their questions?

That's probably the easiest question in the whole situation.

Now Why don't your own "experts" agree with the PFT claims?

 

[beachnut]

But i dont have anymore time to play with JREFers today.. ....


I apologize if you are unable to understand the basic concepts/fundamentals of aeronautical knowledge (pressure, true, radar altitude) and wish to have someone educate you, but as suggested before, there are flight schools for such an occassion. They charge by the hour. Feel free to bring the "Technical Papers" provided by the NTSB. Let us know how you make out.

...

No more time, matches no theories. He would explain something, but he can't…

Posters here can quickly find the portion of the electromagnetic spectrum a Radar Altimeter works in, and a pilot should know it, but Balsamo was corrected, schooled by the person interviewing him, it was funny!
Balsamo and his ip bandit are posting that laypeople here need training, but Balsamo lacks knowledge on RADALT, the feet in a nautical mile (NM), and can't do simple geometry, and clearly came up with 11.2 G for 77 pull out (a theory he can't have) by murdering physics and math beyond all recognition.

You and Rob need to go back to flight school and gain basic skills in math, physics, geometry, and logical thinking so you can finally have a coherent theory and not implications of lies.

It is wonderful you have no theories on the FDR, it matches your evidence.


You sure post like rob, is he feeding your emails? Why no real theories on the FDR besides your rule of no theories? What does the 500 millisecond mean for people who have NO theories? Why is an issue? On Rob's first video, why does he make irrational statements about Hani's flying? Why can't p4t pilots hit buildings in the safety of a simulator, yet 3 terrorist did in real life, and kids with not training in sims have, and pilots with only time in small planes did on video? How does the FDR change 9/11? Why are errors made by p4t not corrected in a timely fashion? Why is traffic down at p4tf? Why have you only gained 20 pilots in one year? What is your growth in pilots per month since inception and when do you expect to pass 0.001 percent of all world pilots? Why do all the 757/767 Captain I have talked to personally, and worked with, think your ideas are nuts on 9/11? Why do all the air force pilots I have worked with think your ideas are nuts on 9/11?

You are the 6 sigma of dumb ideas on 9/11… and you have no theories… at least you had no beachnut in that post... but no evidence either