AA77 FDR Data, Explained

[Turbofan]

Yes, you can SAY that, but every time it comes for you to include it's effect in your calculations, it seems to go missing.

I've explained no less then 15 times exactly how the DFDAU works and how time multiplexing works. Your inability to understand either is no longer my problem.

Time multi-plexing? You mean serial data multi-plexing? The time is not the
only parameter of data that is mutli-plexed.

Is this your pathetic attempt at turning my questions around on me because you can't answer them? You are the one making claim s. If you can't back them up, you lose.

THis coming from the guy that hasn't posted an ounce of math, or tech.,
to show his t1-t5 theory?

Wow, look, there you go FORGETTING about the DFDAU again. Shocking. Your statement, by the way, is false. The "system" is not designed to do anything in 500ms. Certain parts of the system are designed to do certain things in 500ms, yes. When you ADD UP all the times of all the different parts, you get much more then 500ms. I've already showed you the equation. STILL WAITING for you add up those times.

Anti, is the cockpit instrumentation post DAU, or pre DAU?

Is the FDR pre, or post DAU?

Hint: Answer is the same for both. You have a 50% chance of getting it
right.

FYI: Both the instrumentation and FDR share the same power
bus and data bus.

Hint #2: The cockpit instrumentation displays sensor info in real time.

What's really ****ing truly amazing is I gave you the exact equation about 15 pages ago. I've drawn you picture. And yet you are still completely and utterly incapable of making a list of the 5 times and give an estimate for each of them. If you actually knew what you were talking about, and could actually understand the data sheets (and tutorials, ha ha) that you were reading, you'd have done that 10 pages ago.

What's really amazing is I've produced six examples of MFG documentation
explaining that CPM is recorded within 500 msec.

Last chance to clue in: If the pilot can view the sensor info in real time
after all of that processing, what makes you think the FDR can't store
the data at least as quickly? There's nothing to process in form of
displays in the data recorder, correct?

Think of what the DAU throws out to the instrumentation, and think about
what the instrumentation must do with that data to display it on a screen.

Think about how that same data is written to the FDR.

You're asking quite a bit from me I'm sure you're aware. It will take time
to find the processing time of sensor to interface to DAU to FDR.

All I have right now is RAD ALT info. I'll link up the site later/tomorrow
when I dig through my folders.

Off the top, the triple RADAR altimeter tx/rx radio info is:

2 * distance (altitude) / speed of light

 

[Turbofan]

edit: duplicate post.

Yes, you can SAY that, but every time it comes for you to include it's effect in your calculations, it seems to go missing.

I've explained no less then 15 times exactly how the DFDAU works and how time multiplexing works. Your inability to understand either is no longer my problem.

Time multi-plexing? You mean serial data multi-plexing? The time is not the
only parameter of data that is mutli-plexed.

Is this your pathetic attempt at turning my questions around on me because you can't answer them? You are the one making claim s. If you can't back them up, you lose.

THis coming from the guy that hasn't posted an ounce of math, or tech.,
to show his t1-t5 theory?

Wow, look, there you go FORGETTING about the DFDAU again. Shocking. Your statement, by the way, is false. The "system" is not designed to do anything in 500ms. Certain parts of the system are designed to do certain things in 500ms, yes. When you ADD UP all the times of all the different parts, you get much more then 500ms. I've already showed you the equation. STILL WAITING for you add up those times.

Anti, is the cockpit instrumentation post DAU, or pre DAU?

Is the FDR pre, or post DAU?

Hint: Answer is the same for both. You have a 50% chance of getting it
right.

FYI: Both the instrumentation and FDR share the same power
bus and data bus.

Hint #2: The cockpit instrumentation displays sensor info in real time.

What's really ****ing truly amazing is I gave you the exact equation about 15 pages ago. I've drawn you picture. And yet you are still completely and utterly incapable of making a list of the 5 times and give an estimate for each of them. If you actually knew what you were talking about, and could actually understand the data sheets (and tutorials, ha ha) that you were reading, you'd have done that 10 pages ago.

What's really amazing is I've produced six examples of MFG documentation
explaining that CPM is recorded within 500 msec.

Last chance to clue in: If the pilot can view the sensor info in real time
after all of that processing, what makes you think the FDR can't store
the data at least as quickly? There's nothing to process in form of
displays in the data recorder, correct?

Think of what the DAU throws out to the instrumentation, and think about
what the instrumentation must do with that data to display it on a screen.

Think about how that same data is written to the FDR.

You're asking quite a bit from me I'm sure you're aware. It will take time
to find the processing time of sensor to interface to DAU to FDR.

All I have right now is RAD ALT info. I'll link up the site later/tomorrow
when I dig through my folders.

Off the top, the triple RADAR altimeter tx/rx radio info is:

Signal TX/RX (seconds) = 2 * distance (altitude) / speed of light

 

[Bananaman]

Turbo, I'm sure the FDR analysis is terribly interesting, but did you notice this little hiccup in your delusion?

Actually, I'd like you to flesh out a bit more what you think happened at the Pentagon. Here's what we have so far, based on your posts:

Flight 77 disappears from radar screens, and is replaced by either a "smaller plane" or a missile, above it which flys a Boeing E-4B. Making impossibly tight turns at high speed no other airplane is capable of, the "smaller plane" or missile strikes the Pentagon, while the E4B flys over the Pentagon. Teams of conspirators immediately swoop down on the scene, tearing light poles out of the ground, sticking one in Lloyd England's cab. Other conspirators tear up tree branches, knock over construction equipment and material, fences, and marking poles where they figure Flight 77 would hit if it had actually taken the flight path they programmed into the FDR, which the crack team of conspirators also planted in the Pentagon. Other teams of conspirators spread airplane parts all over the lawn of the Pentagon, inside the Pentagon, and in the alley beyond the C-Ring. They blow a hole in the C-Ring with a wall breaching kit for good measure. At the same time, other conspirators go inside the burning Pentagon and plant the remains of the Flight 77 passengers and crew, which have been ground into hamburger a short time earlier when Flight 77 was diverted to some other airport where everyone on board was killed.

All of this was done in broad daylight in front of hundreds of witnesses - from people on their way to work, to Pentagon employees, to firemen, paramedics, and policemen arriving on the scene. And nobody notices!

But there was one problem - one of the doofuses at the NWO accidentally programmed the flight path of the decoy plane into the planted FDR instead of the fllight path they would officially claim for Flight 77. The NTSB ignores these discrepancies, because they are also in on the conspiracy.

Everything is going smoothly until the crack team of FDR experts and researchers at the PfffT files a FOIA request and the NTSB turns over the incorrect data. Now they have blown the whole scheme wide open!

I know it must be terribly annoying for you to have to deal with reality - it's such a nuisance - but I'd be quite interested to know if you actually believe the ridiculous things you say.

By the way, if you do believe them, there is professional help available. And we'll even let you play with your FDR data while you're getting well. We're very thoughtful, you know.

Bananaman (Mr NWO, Oh God, I can't even be bothered to think up a mean acronym to be nasty to the chap).

 

[OldTigerCub]

Turbo, I'm sure the FDR analysis is terribly interesting, but did you notice this little hiccup in your delusion?



I know it must be terribly annoying for you to have to deal with reality - it's such a nuisance - but I'd be quite interested to know if you actually believe the ridiculous things you say.

By the way, if you do believe them, there is professional help available. And we'll even let you play with your FDR data while you're getting well. We're very thoughtful, you know.
Bananaman (Mr NWO, Oh God, I can't even be bothered to think up a mean acronym to be nasty to the chap).

SSR (Shape Shifting Reptoid) works well for me. Granted, those of us that are reptilian are rooting for CIT....They have the best stupid hypothesis to cover our evil plot!

 

[Anti-sophist]

Time multi-plexing? You mean serial data multi-plexing?

No, I meant time multiplexing. Serial multiplexing is also correct, in this case, though.

The time is not the only parameter of data that is mutli-plexed.

Oh jesus.

Do yourself a favor and only get pedantic when you actually know what you are talking about. Do you have -any- idea what time multiplexing means? Do yourself a favor and at least wikipedia something before trying to correct me.

It's called time multiplexing because the data is multiplexed OVER time, not because the "time data" is multiplexed. Time-multiplexing is when many pieces of data are transmitting by separating them in time. An alternate way, for example, is frequency multiplexing when many pieces of data are transmitting by separating them in frequency (FM radio). If you had time-multiplexed radio, you'd have only one channel, and you'd get 1 second from each station in a loop. It wouldn't be very useful.

Please stop trying to exert authority after reading a few tutorials.

THis coming from the guy that hasn't posted an ounce of math, or tech.,
to show his t1-t5 theory?

Wrong. Please see: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66047 and the ensuing 40 pages.

Anti, is the cockpit instrumentation post DAU, or pre DAU?
Is the FDR pre, or post DAU?

Assuming the sensors are the "start" of the this little timeline...

Pre & Post, respectively.

(**NOTE, by the way, do you see how this works? You ask questions and I answer them. What happens when I ask you questions? We are a good 15+ pages in without you answering the only important question I've asked you)

Hint: Answer is the same for both.
FYI: Both the instrumentation and FDR share the same power
bus and data bus.

Wrong and wrong.



You've just tried to claim that the LRUs and the FDR share a bus. Very, very wrong. You did know the instrumentation in the cockpit was an LRU, right? Was that in your tutorial?

What's really amazing is I've produced six examples of MFG documentation
explaining that CPM is recorded within 500 msec.

Yes, you have. What's really amazing is that I've explained what this has meant a dozen times. You've never figured out WHAT gets recorded within 500 msec. You think it's the sensor data straight the sensor. You are wrong. It's the DAU's serial bitstream.

Last chance to clue in: If the pilot can view the sensor info in real time
after all of that processing, what makes you think the FDR can't store
the data at least as quickly? There's nothing to process in form of
displays in the data recorder, correct?

Think of what the DAU throws out to the instrumentation, and think about
what the instrumentation must do with that data to display it on a screen.

Please stop it. You are making a complete idiot of yourself. The cockpit instrumentation does not take information from the DAU. That is not only wrong, but asinine. No one would build an aircraft whose entire cockpit display depends on a single component of the flight data acquisition & recording system.

The LRUs on the jet include the instrumentation. They are all connected on the same databus as the DAU. There is no reason at all for the DAU to send ANYTHING to the instrumentation. Furthermore, the DAU -NEVER- sends anything out on the aircraft bus. He just listens. He gathers data. And he multiplexes that data into a single bitstream which he sends to the recorder.

See the picture

Off the top, the triple RADAR altimeter tx/rx radio info is:
2 * distance (altitude) / speed of light

This is the delay attributed solely to the radar waves, not the processing of the signal. Besides, I never asked for exact values, just reasonable estimates. You cannot even provide that. Of course, it's not surprising that you cannot estimate the time delays because you have absolutely no idea how the system even works.

 

[Dave_46]

roundhead. In post 1015 you said

<snip>
Btw, over the weekend, i had a chance to test a question posed on the internet....

I have a steel wheelbarrow...i dumped two gallons of kerosene in it, after throwing a coke can in it i had just drank, and lit it....and let it burn out.

Guess what, the coke can was perfectly intact, except it was fairly hard to tell it was still a coke...could have been a pepsi.

<snip>

In post 1067 I asked

What ignition source did you use?

In post 1250 I said

I am still interested in the answer to this question, and it should be simple to answer.

You have been active on the forum in the meantime. I would like to know how you ignited the kerosene. It is something you have done, so answering should be simple. Roundhead, please don't ignore me in such a cavalier fashion.

Thanks

 

[jhunter1163]

Roundhead, please don't ignore me in such a cavalier fashion.

Thanks

I saw what you did there.

 

[Dave_46]

I saw what you did there.

Well, that tends to indicate that your custom title may not be correct. Illiterate indeed. I have been swilling some beer already, and hope to see off some more later.

Dave

 

[twinstead]

I have been swilling some beer already, and hope to see off some more later.

mmmmmmmmm. Beer...

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Still no word from L3 eh? Well you just keep on trying.

 

[twinstead]

What if you threw a revolution and nobody showed up?

...It's my revolution and I'll cry if I want to. Cry if I want to. Cry if I want to. You would cry too if it happened to you...

 

[jhunter1163]

Semiliterate, actually.

And methinks I will quaff a beverage myself. There's no time like 2:15 on a Sunday afternoon for the clean, crisp, refreshing taste of one's favorite...

 

[twinstead]

Semiliterate, actually.

And methinks I will quaff a beverage myself. There's no time like 2:15 on a Sunday afternoon for the clean, crisp, refreshing taste of one's favorite...

Mrs twinstead and I have the entire following week off from work. To paraphrase a recent movie title, there WILL be beer.

 

[Turbofan]

It's called time multiplexing because the data is multiplexed OVER time, not because the "time data" is multiplexed.

No, it's called Time DIVISION multi-plexing which I'm fully aware of.

I asked a question in order for you to clarify whether it was the time data
you were refering to, or the multi-plexing itself.

As you will notice, I've mentioned multiplexing earlier, and also referenced
the MIL-STD-1553 standard!

Please stop trying to exert authority after reading a few tutorials.

I guess my electronics engineering and networking experience doesn't account
for much "eh"? You might want to reconisder that although I am referencing
tutorials and PDF's that my education and field experience is well within
reason to understand data transfter, sensors and electricity.

(**NOTE, by the way, do you see how this works? You ask questions and I answer them. What happens when I ask you questions? We are a good 15+ pages in without you answering the only important question I've asked you)

I already stated that I'd answer your questions, and I'm doing my best
to you answers that you don't know.

it's funny that you're not able to get this information claiming to be an
expert, but you're relying on me to produce them at a snap of your fingers?
Surely you know this takes time and resources to follow up? I'm sorry I can't
quit my job and give up my free time to be an "Anti-sophist" debunker 24-7.

Wrong and wrong.

Wrong and wrong, but no explantion huh? Typical. So you're saying the
power bus powering the FDR, DAU and cockpit is NOT the main power bus?

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_11799488b41450d409.jpg[/qimg]

Nice diagram (?), what's your source?

You've just tried to claim that the LRUs and the FDR share a bus. Very, very wrong. You did know the instrumentation in the cockpit was an LRU, right? Was that in your tutorial?

The DAU receives information from certain sensors and the DAU outputs
this information to the FDR. Those same sesnsor send the same info the instrumentation (LRU's).

Yes, you have. What's really amazing is that I've explained what this has meant a dozen times. You've never figured out WHAT gets recorded within 500 msec. You think it's the sensor data straight the sensor. You are wrong. It's the DAU's serial bitstream.

No, you are mistaken. I never claimed the sensor was connected directly
to the FDR! Where are you getting that idea? I said the sensor info values
get stored in CPM within 500 msec! Big difference if you can grasp that?

The LRUs on the jet include the instrumentation. They are all connected on the same databus as the DAU.

That's what I'm getting at! The information form the sensors is shared.
The LRU receives the same info as the Flight data acq. unit!

This is the delay attributed solely to the radar waves, not the processing of the signal.

Yes, and that's what the equation implies. I'm really not sure what your
point is about getting specifics from t1-t5 when the entire process takes
no more than 500 msec!

So you must be implying that the time stamps stored to CPM are transposed
with reference to the NTSB noted impact time?

 

[Bananaman]

*cough*


Bananaman.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

There's a good reason Turbofan's won experts don't support his claims. But then, that's already been addressed. He feels it's best if he simply ignore the reasons.

 

[Dave_46]

Semiliterate, actually.

And methinks I will quaff a beverage myself. There's no time like 2:15 on a Sunday afternoon for the clean, crisp, refreshing taste of one's favorite...

Apologies, I must be the illiterate one. Your 2:15 is 7:15 in the evening for me, and now the time is 8:20.

Dave

p.s. Actually I am not really expecting roundhead to answer my question. I suspect that he didn't set fire to kerosene as he said he did.

 

[WildCat]

Yes, and that's what the equation implies. I'm really not sure what your point is about getting specifics from t1-t5 when the entire process takes no more than 500 msec!

And you have been shown to be completely, utterly, 100% wrong on this.

It's why there are exactly zero actual FDR experts who support the findings of PffffT.

Should I include paying off/threatening all the world's FDR experts in my Turbofan Pentagon conspiracy narrative?

 

[beachnut]

with reference to the NTSB noted impact time?

Please, what is the real impact time of 77 at the Pentagon. With many second of data possibly missing, what is the real time of impact? Who said so? Who verified it? Who stands by it more than just a working copy? What does the FBI say, and why would the impact time be important since it is a fact 77 impacted the Pentagon on 9/11 after 9:30 local? Answer, who, what, where and why, and alternative times.

Do you want real good estimate? What is the best resolution of the impact time, and how do you come up with the error model of that time?

Could you use stochastic estimation and control theory to help remove errors in some of the unknowns of 9/11 surrounding 77?

The real exact time of impact? Too hard? Not for the expert of p4t, the hearsay junk DVD salesmen, the super wrong interpreters of 9/11.

1553 bus? I worked with that bus in the Air Force as an engineer. You brandish terms and buses and never actually answer anything. You have no real story of what happen on 9/11 and the 500 millisecond issue, you admit 500 milliseconds has nothing to do with 9/11.

Balsamo would again call! "thread closed"

Lucky for you, you are here where you can post tripe and the thread remains open as you fall deeper into ignorance with each post. Does the L3 salesman know he is a front man for the woo of p4t no theory DVD attack? Do you have the ability to prove you can answer something, besides admitting 500 milliseconds has nothing to do, is not related to 9/11?

 

[WildCat]

p.s. Actually I am not really expecting roundhead to answer my question. I suspect that he didn't set fire to kerosene as he said he did.

You're probably right. I doubt roundhead's mother would give him the $12 to buy 2 gallons of kerosene.