AA77 FDR Data, Explained

[Jonnyclueless]

And as usual the PFT cult liars won't address what they claim to have happened. They always seem to conveniently skip over those questions. They certainly have no problem picking holes in other people's work, which isn't something very hard to do as we can pick holes in the most established theories in the world, even gravity. But what REAL experts do is they prove what happened, not make petty attacks based on assumptions like the cult members at PFT do. And of course they continue to whine like little babies that they are being attacked.

The fact of the matter is that they are the ones doing the character assasinations and when pointed out why, they play possom and pretend they are speaking out for the good of the orld and being attacked. What a bunch of con artists these kids are. It's bad enough that they post blatant lies in order to make a profit off a tragedy, but then to sit here and pretend that all o their con work is somehow a noble cause? And to pretend that they are experts?

And they wonder why they aren't taken seriously outside of their own cult....Truth is they are just looking for attention. I they had the guts to actually present a plausible explanation for what happened, then maybe they could stand a chance o being taken seriously. but until then they are simply using creationism tactics of trying to prove their beliefs not by actually proving them, but simply by trying to cast doubt on another. Because they know very well they have absolutely no positive evidence for their beliefs, just like creationism.

Welcome to the new religion and PFT is just one of the many cults. Sad as they are.

 

[hxstamper]

But what REAL experts do is they prove what happened,

You are correct. So what is your theory for the NTSB "Experts" placing the aircraft at 273 ft RADALT at "time of impact" calculated by the "experts" at the NTSB? Perhaps the NTSB arent "experts" as much as the anonymous individuals you meet on JREF?

Or perhaps you need to go to a local flight school or read the FAA Flight Training Handbook to define pressure altutude vs true altitude vs radar altitude?

If you feel the NTSB "experts" are wrong (once you learn how to determine altitude) What is your excuse for the NTSB/FBI distributig "wrong data" through the FOIA to the American Public when the NTSB specifically states their goal is to provide the most accurate information?

I expect you will avoid the above questions as well?

 

[beachnut]

These are the facts and they are undisputed:

As provided by the NTSB...

The "impact" time is 09:37:45 (does anyone dispute this?)

This is not the impact time. This is the next to last time stamp in the FDR! This does not make an impact time. If that was true, then other accidents would have impact times based on the last, or in your case next to last time stamp on the FDR! This would be an error.

The altitude at 09:37:44 as provided by the NTSB is 173 PA. When adjusted for local pressure, Altitude is ~480 MSL (does anyone dispute this?)

About 417 feet or less, with an error of +-75 feet. So? There for the impact time can't be :45. Oops your first fact is negated by your second almost fact.

We'll start there. Just a yes or no if you dispute the above. And if you dispute any point of the above, have you contacted the NTSB who provided such data? Or, do you think P4T "made up" the above numbers.

First of all I never used 45 as the impact time of 77. Who does? I think p4t and you have problems discussing things and take thing too literally. But then, I have no idea how anyone can believe any of the false conclusion you come up with. What does this mean? If you are saying 77 was too high to hit the Pentagon based on the FDR, then this is why data is missing like other accidents, where the data stopped when the planes were still 13 seconds or minutes from impact! So? You have a limited ability to accept evidence and understand flying, or are you just a drone for p4t?

Many are watching. Many professionals who put their names and faces on the line, are watching you "Beachnut". We also know your medical hasnt been renewed since 2000. Almost as bad as Hordon.

Oops, now I am not just hiding behind a screen, you have been telling lies, you know exactly who I am. I hasnt?

"Beachnut", you have earned little respect in the aviation community. Some of our guys have checked you out (you may want to visit our core member page again, many have more access than you have ever claimed to have, you have also lied about some of your qualifications. We can only verify such if you debate us with your real name. We know why you refuse.). We also know why you refuse to register for P4t or debate on air. We also know why Anti-Sophist has disappeared from this thread.

I have not lied about anything. Please tell me what I have lied about my flying. I am sorry, but since you know my medical is expired, then you bs about me not being known is a lie.

What could I lie about? Gee, I did fly jets. I did attend UPT. I have served in NATO, I have been in combat (someone was lobbing SCUDs at me), albeit off loading gas to fighters. I am a trained aircraft accident investigator, I was chief of safety of a wing and an air division and an Air Depot. What could I have made up? Which one did I make up? My Air Force career is average; I retired as an Lt Col and finished up flying prop planes as a liaison officer; I think single engine props are harder to fly than a jet with 4 engines. Is that a lie; can't be, it is only an opinion. I am trained to design approaches! Forgot about that one.

So what did I lie about? Evidence please. Did I screw up?

Those who want to know more, encourage Anti-Sophist and Beachnut to contact us for a recorded debate, as Ron tried to do. The so-called "JREF Experts" dont want to debate because they claim we are "dolts" or "loons".. or there is nothing to debate? If that were the case, they could expose us in short order. It is clear who will expose the dolts in short order.

Doltish ideas, loony tune conclusions based on false information supplied by people who make big errors in the form of 11.2 Gs! Not people, their ideas are crazy! Who can debate people with crazy ideas? Gee, you have no theories, what is there to debate? Please read your web site!

Anti-Sophist, the original poster was actually more accurate than Beachnut. Beachnut and Anti-Sophist also contradict each other.

I hope someone is more accurate than me. It would not surprise me, that someone can teach me something when I am in error. But please show me how we contradict each other. Some evidence for your stuff. Why does it matter if we contradict each other? It may be you failed to understand what that really means in a discussion on 9/11, on a topic which has no real bearing on what happen on 9/11.

I suspect Anti-Sophist left this thread for the same reason he refuse to debate anyone at P4T.

He left because it is fruitless to debate with people who believe in pure fantasy like you. And then you say no one talks about me, and here is a whole post about me! Irony, where is an irony gif! Meter please!

Ron,

We will be respectful if you get Anti-Sophist on "HardFire" (i expect Beachnut to remain behind his screen). We have many still flying the line with the airlines. I guarantee you, Anti_sophist will never show up. We will contact you soon (recorded of course) to hammer out the details.

I expect Beachnut to remain babysitting his grandsons and trying not to get arrested when he tells the police to stop calling him a liar!

Oops, you called me a liar.


Evidence free and proud about, you and p4t.

 

[beachnut]

You are correct. So what is your theory for the NTSB "Experts" placing the aircraft at 273 ft RADALT at "time of impact" calculated by the "experts" at the NTSB? Perhaps the NTSB arent "experts" as much as the anonymous individuals you meet on JREF?

Or perhaps you need to go to a local flight school or read the FAA Flight Training Handbook to define pressure altutude vs true altitude vs radar altitude?

If you feel the NTSB "experts" are wrong (once you learn how to determine altitude) What is your excuse for the NTSB/FBI distributig "wrong data" through the FOIA to the American Public when the NTSB specifically states their goal is to provide the most accurate information?

I expect you will avoid the above questions as well?

273 was at time stamp 43, and you placed the impact at 45! Yet, the impact is not defined by the FDR! How can you say at impact the plane is 273 AGL, when impact is two seconds or more in the future? And there is another time stamp of 46 on the FDR! So what time was impact again?

You need the training, you have lost the edge. You believe in fantasy, the fantasy ideas of p4t.

The NTSB was not lead on the 77 impact at the Pentagon, and nothing they have presented disputes the fact 77 hit the Pentagon, and you have no evidence to support the non theories you have. If you are a p4t, you have no theory, p4t tells us so.

You have no theory, how can you debate!

 

[hxstamper]

This is not the impact time.... First of all I never used 45 as the impact time of 77. Who does?

uhhh... the NTSB?

Ohhh.. .thats right.. you think the NTSB is wrong. And you, as a self proclaimed "Accident Investigator", allow the NTSB to distribute.. what was it you said from behind your screen? error filled data? Was that it?

Beachnut, please do some work. Its clear why you wont take on the sharper, younger pilots in debate.


I'd buy you a beer anytime though...

 

[beachnut]

uhhh... the NTSB?

Ohhh.. .thats right.. you think the NTSB is wrong. And you, as a self proclaimed "Accident Investigator", allow the NTSB to distribute.. what was it you said from behind your screen? error filled data? Was that it?

Beachnut, please do some work. Its clear why you wont take on the sharper, younger pilots in debate.


I'd buy you a beer anytime though...

So that is the exact time of impact? Why is there another time stamp on the FDR of :46? Was that after the impact? Oops, you are reading from the working copy stuff?

Oh noes, you got me, Ritter says impact was at 45! Darn, now you got us. Darn, and I thought impact was when it impacted. How does 45 relate to real time? Are all watches and time pieces at the same second?

Darn, this is the smoking gun you have always needed, go get the Pulitzer Prize! You got me, I am old and worn out; useless, defeated, beat, busted, fubar, last place, no good, rusted up, broken, down and out, a penny short, crushed, a dollar short, a pound foolish, a failed pilot, fried! You have won this one! For sure!



I am old and used up, beat by the better pilot! Darn! I knew it! Washed up!

This means you got the Pulitzer sewed up!















I looked, there is no Pulitzer for you! Sad, just when I was down and out...

Now please name one sharper pilot on that page of pilots who back the fantasy of some CT on 9/11. A sharper pilot than I would not support the failed ideas those pilots do on the Patriot Pilots page. It looks like a bunch of nut case ideas are support by those pilots, that is the opposite of sharp! Kind of dull! I hope you are not on that page, there goes your edge!

Sorry, you failed again! Based on your ideas on 9/11, you owe infinite beer! So you got the buying correct!


I looked and tried to find a sharper pilot than I on the Patriot page, I failed (perfect time to quote mine).

You understand you are moving into the moon bat conspiracy arena, just like bigfoot, you guys are in the seventh year of bat crazy ideas on 9/11, and evidence free.

As the poor old pilot beat by the sharper young pilot, I have to give you my dying words on this subject, you take things out of context and use them as literally true. The impact time on a NTSB paper is take out of context and used for what? You are using the time literally as "The Impact Time" and then say, "see, our non theory 77 can't hit the Pentagon is true". You miss the fact fearless leader Balsamo is seeing the false information to make money, and that your 273 feet Radar Altimeter reading is 2 seconds prior to your smoking gun NTSB declared impact time; the same NTSB you are calling liars, frauds, in on the conspiracy of something you can't have a theory on anyway because Balsamo says so! What is your theory? What is going on with all you sharper pilots? Have you lost it! I understand why people don't trust government, but your guys are purely fanatical and paranoid on that point!

You guys debunk yourselves, and you should be able to figure out the animation if you are a sharper pilots than I. In fact, if you are shaper than I, you would clearly see p4t are false information merchants. But alas, you are not shaper, you think you are sharper (the reason you see value in p4t junk ideas)!

 

[Jonnyclueless]

You are correct. So what is your theory for the NTSB "Experts" placing the aircraft at 273 ft RADALT at "time of impact" calculated by the "experts" at the NTSB? Perhaps the NTSB arent "experts" as much as the anonymous individuals you meet on JREF?

Or perhaps you need to go to a local flight school or read the FAA Flight Training Handbook to define pressure altutude vs true altitude vs radar altitude?

If you feel the NTSB "experts" are wrong (once you learn how to determine altitude) What is your excuse for the NTSB/FBI distributig "wrong data" through the FOIA to the American Public when the NTSB specifically states their goal is to provide the most accurate information?

I expect you will avoid the above questions as well?

No no buddy, this is on you. There are an infinite number of possibilities for why things are the way they are. You are the one making the claims here, so lets see you back yours up. You kids seem to be making bold assumptions about exactly what happened, not me. I am all for many of the infinite possibilities where you kids are all about one. So let's hear it.

Can you prove that everything worked absolutely flawless? That there was absolutely no possibility for mechnical failures, human errors, or anything like that along the way? Can you rule out every single possible anomaly? Please show us.

And again, why do you stop there and only make negative arguments for your beliefs? A real researcher would complete his or her job and prove their claims. So you are making a claim about what happened which leaves little other possibilities. So please continue and explain past the FDR. Let's assume that everything you say is true. Please continue explaining what happened then. Please explain the only possible outcome of your accusations. And show us the proof of that, which can't be your claims about the FDR itself because there are an infinite number of variables in that.

Pretend you're in a court of law here. It's your obligation to finish your research, not stop short when you realize you're going to paint yourself into a corner.

I could do what you kids are doing with the theory of gravity and cast doubt that gravity actually exists. I could do it with the big bang and claim that the holes in it prove God exists. But it wouldn't make me right. Because that's the easy part. Finishing your research is a bit too hard for the cult members at PFT.

face it, you guys know you're just a bunch of frauds and you're jsut putting on a little song and dance. This is why you don't get taken seriously by the NTSB, the FBI. This is why you can't take your claims to court and start a lawsuit like the ACLU does. Much easier to sit on forums while pretending to be experts on a noble cause and that everyone else is "in on it" like the media.

 

[hxstamper]

So that is the exact time of impact? Why is there another time stamp on the FDR of :46? Was that after the impact? Oops, you are reading from the working copy stuff?

So the NTSB is wrong? What are you doing to correct it? P4T contacted the NTSB and FBI. Are you a pilot or not?

It appears you dont know residual energy as well. Considering you claim to be an EE, you never heard of capacitors? If you called L3, you may have a clue to what im talking about.

Oh noes, you got me, Ritter says impact was at 45!

Apparently you didnt know who "Ritter" was a few posts above till i educated you on who actually reported and calculated an impact time. "Who does?". Isnt that what you said? Did you delete it yet to "save space"? lol

Darn, now you got us. Darn,

You been 'had' and exposed a long time ago among the aviation community. Notice how no one with any type of aviation experience is coming to your rescue now, nor will they put their names/faces on their claims... just like you.

How does 45 relate to real time? Are all watches and time pieces at the same second?

You obviously didnt read the work of apathoid research quoting the NTSB earlier in this thread. Shall i throw you another curve ball? I dont think you can handle it actually.. but email us for debate if you can really keep up. Hint, why not call the NTSB like we did to find out how they calculated the "impact time"? Ohhh.. thats right.. you wont even call L3.

go get the Pulitzer Prize!

You forgot we sell DVD's.

(but im sure it will be in your next 10 posts...)

I am old and used up, beat by the better pilot! Darn! I knew it! Washed up!

Actually, i have heard great war stories from some awesome old timers.. .some who work behind the scenes in our organization.. some not... but i would still buy you a beer. I'll contact you when in CA.

This means you got the Pulitzer sewed up!

I can sew a sweater.. does that count?

 

[hxstamper]

No no buddy, this is on you.

and the lists that seem to grow...

http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots


If you do not not have more than a private pilot certificate, and/or done the least bit of study regarding the FAA Flight Training Handbook... try not to post in this thread... you really will look "Jonnyclueless".


Just a suggestion of course...

as you were...

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Someone from PFT saying someone else has been "exposed" in the aviation community. As if PFT is in any way shape or form a respectable cult among the aviation community. Now that is funny when the laughing stock of the aviation community (though most members aren't even in the aviation community) is pretending to be accepted among pilots. A group that is dwarfed by people who think the earth is flat.

If that's not living in denial, I don't know what is. I guess the mind set that thinks the NTSB lied about the plane that hit the Pentagon but use the NTSB claims to insist theirs are true. LOL!

 

[Jonnyclueless]

and the lists that seem to grow...

http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots


If you do not not have more than a private pilot certificate, and/or done the least bit of study regarding the FAA Flight Training Handbook... try not to post in this thread... you really will look "Jonnyclueless".


Just a suggestion of course...

as you were...

That's what I thought kid. Run and hide as always. Why don't you just admit you can't do it? Or should I just keep asking you over and over again kid? Keep playing your idiotic song and dance kiddo an pretending to be some kind of professional like the rest of the hacks at PFT, most of whom pretend to be pilots. And face it your little cult movement is not growing, it;s dwindling. Hence your need for attention. Perhaps if you kids would actually bother to try to prove your claims instead of your pot shot methods you might actually get taken seriously instead of being laughed at by the aviation community.

If you can't do the research kid, then don't bother to post on this forum. Else you might look like one of those PFT cultists.

 

[beachnut]

and the lists that seem to grow...

http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots


If you do not not have more than a private pilot certificate, and/or done the least bit of study regarding the FAA Flight Training Handbook... try not to post in this thread... you really will look "Jonnyclueless".


Just a suggestion of course...

as you were...

Jonnyclueless has nailed your false ideas. He is over qualified compared to the pilots listed on the Patriot page for understanding 9/11! He is able to create rational ideas on an event with facts and evidence; a skill not shown by one on that page of shame. And since you are a sharper pilot, a younger pilot, your telling him not to post since he may not be a pilot is ironic since your pilot skills have FAILED you on 9/11!

JC knows this, and I hope he has zero skills in flying, so much bigger win when done by a layperson who is smarter than the people who claim to be experts, but are far from it!

Irony! I seem to think there are many here who have much knowledge on flying and are not FAA certified! I love to talk to people who have more knowledge than I on the subjects I was trained on and certified to be or do; it is humbling, I need more practice! I have learned from laypeople how to explain things better! Many/most/all/some are much smarter than I!

 

[hxstamper]

That's what I thought kid. Run and hide as always. Why don't you just admit you can't do it? Or should I just keep asking you over and over again kid? Keep playing your idiotic song and dance kiddo an pretending to be some kind of professional like the rest of the hacks at PFT, most of whom pretend to be pilots. And face it your little cult movement is not growing, it;s dwindling. Hence your need for attention. Perhaps if you kids would actually bother to try to prove your claims instead of your pot shot methods you might actually get taken seriously instead of being laughed at by the aviation community.

If you can't do the research kid, then don't bother to post on this forum. Else you might look like one of those PFT cultists.

Hey mods? Is it ok if i call those who i feel are "kids", kids? Or would i be warned for attacking the person instead of the argument as is spelled out in your rules.


Jonny-CLUELESSS, anytime you want to debate members of P4T, feel free to contact us.. kid! You do know how to find our email addy.. right Kid?

I hope you know more than Beachy or Anti-Sophist.. as they have truly proven themselves to be "kids" (or second childhood in the case of Beachy).

Jonny.. ready to step up to the plate? Contact us... We'll educate you.

If it turns into a ground school, you may have to pay regular price for any student learning pressure altitude vs. true as its clear you are a bit lost.

Find the email addy. We look forward to recording our debate with you. Our credentials against yours.. real names and faces. Surely you can expose us as "kids/frauds" in short order? Or can you not back up your claims/strawman.

I expect you to remain here.. .behind your screen.

As for chillzero warn posted elsewere regarding anonymity.. .here is us.. we fear no one...

http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots

Those certificated by the FAA can be searched at faa.gov.

I am a representative of P4T and such information offered above is available at http://pilotsfor911truth.com/forum

The "Duhbunkers" here have shown what they are made of in this thread.. period. Anonymous "experts" who "avoid debate", and those who follow.

Turbofan ran Anti-Sophist out of town. Beachnut is holding on for dear life.

steady....

 

[hxstamper]

I need more practice! ..... Many/most/all/some are much smarter than I!

Another great quote from "Beachnut". Mind if i use it in my sig with your other quote saying P4T arent wackos, dolts or loons?

 

[beachnut]

Pure junk, and personal attacks are standard for p4t supporters, they are short on facts and evidence which supports their ideas on9/11. As you say other attack you, you miss they mean your false ideas. It is easy to miss that. If I messed up, I meant your ideas are wacko, not you. There could be something you think that is not wacko, but 9/11 is not one of them. Why is that? Do some of you get some of the DVD money?

Go ahead, quote mine and use anything you want to make up false information. Now what did I lie about on my credentials? Were you making that up? So far you have zero evidence on the FDR, and zero evidence on my credentials you said no one ever talks about, but then posted how pilots at p4t say I was a liar on my credentials. Gee, you got some of them from the FAA, are they lairs too? Does that count talking about me, the posts you said p4t pilots were talking about me?

Okay, p4t supporters, please present some evidence to support just one of your conclusions. Wait, p4t make no theories, so there are no conclusions. Darn, you can't post anything. You win again.

I guess you better talk about me, you have no evidence to support your ideas on 9/11, why not poke fun at the old pilot. Makes for good typing practice.

Why are you so short on real evidence, p4t supporters? Why are you following others and unable to think for yourselves when it is clear to millions of pilots you guys have some crazy ideas on 9/11. Did you read all the crazy ideas of just the pilots at the Patriots page have? My goodness, the ideas are not support by any evidence, yet the pilots spew them freely as if they are in some cult, or have lost all capability to function rationally. Does some of this crazy ideas stuff spill over into other areas, like in the case of John Lear? Are you guys getting help from his alien friends running freely around among us? I think the aliens can help you guys earn this Pulitzer Prize if you can get them to come forward. What does John say?

 

[hxstamper]

You win again.

Its not that hard considering you refuse to put your name and face behind your claims.

I think i'll use your above quote added to my sig with the others.

 

[funk de fino]

Hey mods? Is it ok if i call those who i feel are "kids", kids? Or would i be warned for attacking the person instead of the argument as is spelled out in your rules.


Jonny-CLUELESSS, anytime you want to debate members of P4T, feel free to contact us.. kid! You do know how to find our email addy.. right Kid?

I hope you know more than Beachy or Anti-Sophist.. as they have truly proven themselves to be "kids" (or second childhood in the case of Beachy).

Jonny.. ready to step up to the plate? Contact us... We'll educate you.

If it turns into a ground school, you may have to pay regular price for any student learning pressure altitude vs. true as its clear you are a bit lost.

Find the email addy. We look forward to recording our debate with you. Our credentials against yours.. real names and faces. Surely you can expose us as "kids/frauds" in short order? Or can you not back up your claims/strawman.

I expect you to remain here.. .behind your screen.

As for chillzero warn posted elsewere regarding anonymity.. .here is us.. we fear no one...

http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots

Those certificated by the FAA can be searched at faa.gov.

I am a representative of P4T and such information offered above is available at http://pilotsfor911truth.com/forum

The "Duhbunkers" here have shown what they are made of in this thread.. period. Anonymous "experts" who "avoid debate", and those who follow.

Turbofan ran Anti-Sophist out of town. Beachnut is holding on for dear life.

steady....

hey pal

Are pilots more qualified to talk about FDR than techs who worked on them for 12 years at both first and second line?

 

[hxstamper]

hey pal

Are pilots more qualified to talk about FDR than techs who worked on them for 12 years at both first and second line?

Hey pal, have you spoken with L3 Communications? Got a recording? Got any list remotely resembling such a list here?

http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots

(hint: they arent all pilots by profession)

Got any recording with any other FDR company? Called Flightscape? Smiths? Anyone?

Who you work for pal? Care to get on record with P4T? Contact us... "pal".

 

[funk de fino]

Hey pal, have you spoken with L3 Communications? Got a recording? Got any list remotely resembling such a list here?

http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots

(hint: they arent all pilots by profession)

Got any recording with any other FDR company? Called Flightscape? Smiths? Anyone?

Who you work for pal? Care to get on record with P4T? Contact us... "pal".

As usual you fail to answer the question?

care to try and answer it and I will answer yours?

 

[beachnut]

Its not that hard considering you refuse to put your name and face behind your claims.

I think i'll use your above quote added to my sig with the others.

In your mind you have won. That is what a delusion is, and is like an illusions suffered while flying. Have you forgotten the illusion training pilots receive (or failed to learn it), and failed to apply it to your understanding on 9/11? You do have an illusion p4t are correct, they make no theories, you just love their ideas on 9/11. You have an illusion their ideas are correct, you are so sure, you forget to check the evidence (the other instruments) and you fall for the fact you think you flying straight and level, but your are upside-down, and in a stall!

Flying is like life, you are living an illusion by signing up for p4t (failing to be an individual), an illusion you have failed to recognize. I guess being sharp and young has limitations that experience and knowledge are much better suited for avoiding illusions and the failed ideas of p4t.

So much for sharper and younger pilots who hide behind screens, post crazy ideas about 9/11, use my real name freely, p4t supporter guy.
You have failed to present evidence of anything you say that has a bearing on 9/11. Why is that, and do you understand that is true?

The sad part of the pilots on the Patriot page is most only have this as their entire reason for being on the page

Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame. However, we are focused on determining the truth of that fateful day since the United States Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers."

A failed mission statement from a failed group who primary purpose is to make money for Balsamo! That is crux of the CT there, it is old fashion false claims snake oil sales, and you are buying into the ideas at a minimum. Others are funding Balsamo's scheme. The terrorist actually worked hard to learn the minimum needed to run planes into buildings after killing pilots! The flying skills many kids off the street posses, were painstakingly learned by the terrorist who had a goal. The goal of p4t is to sell DVDs and have a cover of some greater purpose, they call 9/11 truth. How ironic it is when you investigate just a little, and find the most math/physics challenged beings in the world trying to make up plausible stories only a few fools in the whole world would believe! If you doubt the math/physics statement look at the gross errors in the 11.2 G fiasco! What a classic real dumb math/physics error fest. A member of Pilots for 9/11 Truth, is a sign of no evidence, and clearly one who is unable to research the very group they joined to see they lack the skills to make logical conclusion on 9/11, even if they were to! Remember the, "We do not offer theory"!

The other sad part, all the pilots on the Patriot page lack evidence and facts to support the conclusions you guys can't make. Do you guys take lessons from Yogi?