Split Thread The Towers should not hve collapsed (split from Gravysites)

Dabljuh said:
Oh my god, Myriad. Let me give you a more accurate analogy.
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No thanks. Mine is quite accurate already, whereas yours overlooks the fact that hundreds of coroners, rangning from the local county coroner to the U.S. Surgeon General's office to international coroners' societies, have all already determined that the victim died from a 50mm gunshot wound in the chest.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Myriad said:
No thanks. Mine is quite accurate already, whereas yours overlooks the fact that hundreds of coroners, rangning from the local county coroner to the U.S. Surgeon General's office to international coroners' societies, have all already determined that the victim died from a 50mm gunshot wound in the chest.

Respectfully,
Myriad
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50mm, holy crap that's a big gun!
 
Jonnyclueless said:
Again, I suggest Dabljuh write up a white paper explaining exactly why and how a plane and the resulting fires could not have caused the collapse. Why don't you do this Dabljuh? Seems like you feel you have found a big conspiracy. The biggest one known to man and have proof of it. Why don't you take the needed steps to back it up? Write a paper and let it be reviewed and see how well it stands up.
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Newtons Bit said:
He doesn't have the ability.
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Dabljuh said:
It's true. Also: I'm lazy.
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over 3,000 dead and you are too lazy to bring the true killers to justice?
 
Myriad said:
No thanks. Mine is quite accurate already, whereas yours overlooks the fact that hundreds of coroners, rangning from the local county coroner to the U.S. Surgeon General's office to international coroners' societies, have all already determined that the victim died from a 50mm gunshot wound in the chest.
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Here's the problem with your enhancement to the analogy: A 50mm gunshot wound (like, a tank gun?) would be a plausible cause of death and no one would object. A stroke in a 25 year old on the other hand is highly implausible, even though it is not impossible of course, especially as one can propose a sedentary lifestyle and the victim having had fries (besides the soup) for lunch.
 
Dabljuh said:
Is that the one performed in the 90ies where nothing collapsed?
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Yes, but the Cardigan tests are completely irrelevant since the structural design that was tested was nothing like the structural design of the the towers or of WTC 7.
 
Alferd_Packer said:
over 3,000 dead and you are too lazy to bring the true killers to justice?
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Is that like, my job now? Aren't there people that actually would get paid to do it? Is it my fault if those people refuse to do their job? Why do you assume would "justice" be my goal? I want hush money.
 
Alferd_Packer said:
Yes, but the Cardigan tests are completely irrelevant since the structural design that was tested was nothing like the structural design of the the towers or of WTC 7.
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Sure. Anything you say pal.

Don't alter quotes again without making it clear that YOU have altered THEIR words - and WHERE. In the meantime, I have returned the quote to it's original content.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jmercer
 
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Dabljuh said:
---Tests demonstrating that a steel frame structure could not be brought to collapse by even a worst case fire scenario are of no relevance to the collapse of the WTC---
Sure. Anything you say pal.
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Your deliberate rewrite of my post has been reported. It is rude and obnoxious.

But, since you seem to be confused I will explain it to you.

Not all buildings are built with the same structural designs.

Different structural designs respond differently to fire conditions.

I repeat, Not all steel framed buildings are the same.

The Cardigan test involved one style of structural framing.

The WTC buildings were build using different types of framing designs.

Unless the Cardigan tests used the same structural framing system as the WTC buildings, the results of the tests are not really applicable to the WTC case.

Capice?
 
Dabljuh said:
Is that like, my job now? Aren't there people that actually would get paid to do it? Is it my fault if those people refuse to do their job? Why do you assume would "justice" be my goal? I want hush money.
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No one pays hush money to a troll.
 
What a silly way to paint the picture. If you wanted to compare 9/11 to your scenario, the coroner never found cyanide in the stomach after investigating, and people keeping up with events blamed a person who never had any opportunity to poison the victim. Furthermore, some "independent researcher" claims the body was poisoned because he found potassium in the blood, a component of potassium cyanide and his fans bought it, both ignoring the fact that the human body contains potassium and its presence is expected.

Furthermore, one fan keeps ignoring the symptoms do not point at poisoning, and keeps creating nonsensical explanations of how cyanide works, in direct contradiction to how it really does. And then points at those explanations and says "That's it. It's cyanide".

Want to go on? You're the one who's theory says there's something unusual about the presence of elements completely expected in the towers. So who's dealing with reality here? Not you, not if you think "thermate" when you see magnesium.1
1For those who haven't read this whole thread: Refer to earlier posts where Dabuljuh postulates that the presence of manganese and potassium in a sample from the towers that Steven Jones analyzed must mean the presence of thermate. This completely ignores the fact that K is found in anything with an organic origin, and manganese is a component of the structural steel itself.
 
Myriad said:
No thanks. Mine is quite accurate already, whereas yours overlooks the fact that hundreds of coroners, rangning from the local county coroner to the U.S. Surgeon General's office to international coroners' societies, have all already determined that the victim died from a 50mm gunshot wound in the chest.

Respectfully,
Myriad
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A better analogy might be ten thousand witnesses saw a man be shot in the stomach and tossed into an incinerator. Camera crews arrived, and saw another man get shot in the stomach and tossed in an incinerator.

The truthers took a sample from the incenerator and found that there was a higher than normal lead concentration in the remains. They therefor conclude that it was lead poisoning that killed the men, the films were faked and the witnesses lying.
 
Alferd_Packer said:
Your deliberate rewrite of my post has been reported. It is rude and obnoxious.
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Yet you almost force me to do it right again - nothing semantic in that post changed from your previous statement. If you don't want me to make fun of your posts, maybe you could try to write something slightly more intelligent rather than trying to defend your implied assertion that the WTC's collapse due to fire was highly probable.

Alright, I'll help you with what you should have said:

The collapse of the World Trade Center buildings was indeed very improbable, however, computer models and a large scale analysis by the brightest minds of the country have lead me to conclude that the collapse scenario presented is not sufficiently improbable to make investigations into more improbable collapse scenarios necessary, such as the controlled demolition theories
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If you had said something like that, it'd be a legitimate, non-stupid choice. But you didn't chose to do that. Instead, you chose to say this:

Tests demonstrating that a steel frame structure could not be brought to collapse by even a worst case fire scenario are of no relevance to the collapse of the WTC
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Newtons Bit said:
A better analogy might be ten thousand witnesses saw a man be shot in the stomach and tossed into an incinerator. Camera crews arrived, and saw another man get shot in the stomach and tossed in an incinerator.

The truthers took a sample from the incenerator and found that there was a higher than normal lead concentration in the remains. They therefor conclude that it was lead poisoning that killed the men, the films were faked and the witnesses lying.
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Your analogy has more to it than Myriad's. But here's the difference that I would propose:



Dozens of witnesses saw a man leaning on a wall be shot in the stomach with a .22LR pistol and then tossed into an incinerator. Camera crews arrived, and saw another man, also leaning on a wall, get shot in the stomach with a similiar .22LR and tossed in an incinerator as well. The bullets are recovered from the incinerator and the assassin is found with an apparent self-inflicted, lethal head wound.

Truthers announce that a shot from a .22LR to the stomach could not have killed the men in the given time frame, they would have been alive when they were tossed into the incinerator. The fact that they did not struggle may mean that the victims were either already dead or narcotized, and merely leaned against a wall.

The truthers take a sample from the incinerator and find that there was a higher than normal polonium concentration in the remains. They therefore conclude that it was polonium poisoning that killed the men, their corpses were merely made to stand erect, and that the shots were merely a distraction to pin the blame on someone who has no access to polonium (e.g. anyone but the new KGB) to deceive everyone.

JREF announces that truthers are insane, fall for obvious disinfo like "no-bullets-theories" and think their job is complete when they refute those.
 
Alferd_Packer said:
Yes, but the Cardigan tests are completely irrelevant since the structural design that was tested was nothing like the structural design of the the towers or of WTC 7.
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Just to keep the record straight: The relevance of mentioning Cardigan was in the image e^n brought up: The Cardigan study demonstrated the time/temperature curves that were possible in an office fire. Dabuljuh's post was an attempt to deflect that issue and make it seem irrelevant to the discussion (which at that time was the temperature of the steel beams).
 
WildCat said:
50mm, holy crap that's a big gun!
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I wanted to make it a wound that even a Truther coroner couldn't possibly overlook.

Since they are perfectly capable of overlooking the damage caused by a jetliner flying full speed into a skyscraper, I'm not sure 50mm is big enough, even though there wouldn't be much left of the body...

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Alfred Packer said:
http://fire-research.group.shef.ac.u..._Baltimore.pdf

What do you say about that analysis?????
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Dabljuh said:
OH NO, ITS AN ANALYSIS, EVERYONE LIE FLAT ON THE FLOOR!

Oh, false alarm. It's just some kids with 3DSMax, managing to make their virtual WTC implode and writing a paper about it to stick on their refrigerator.
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Today 06:56 PM


Today 07:07 PM



You didn't actually read it, did you?
 
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Myriad said:
I wanted to make it a wound that even a Truther coroner couldn't possibly overlook.

Since they are perfectly capable of overlooking the damage caused by a jetliner flying full speed into a skyscraper, I'm not sure 50mm is big enough, even though there wouldn't be much left of the body...

Respectfully,
Myriad
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How about a battleship cannon? 16''.
 
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